Duck: The Topic

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@Anna N, best I can quantify, when I baked the leg in question there was no fat on the resulting meat and no fat left in the roasting pan.

 

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@Anna N, best I can quantify, when I baked the leg in question there was no fat on the resulting meat and no fat left in the roasting pan.

 

Most peculiar is all I can say.  Perhaps @KennethT absconded with the fat for his special bread. 😂

Edited November 30, 2022 by Anna N
Remove repeated quote. (log)

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

Most peculiar is all I can say.  Perhaps @KennethT absconded with the fat for his special bread. 😂

That is most peculiar. I haven't made any duck in a long time, but years ago, my father and I would have a competition on who could make the best whole roast duck.  We must have gone through 6 or 8 ducks - they were all Long Island ducks, which I believe are the pekin breed, and all of those had copious amounts of fat - especially between the leg and the body and in the armpits (wingpits?).  Years later, when I learned about how the Chinese ducks were much leaner, I wished I could have had access to one - I would have won the contest for sure!

 

Making roti prata with duck fat would be ridiculous.  Dipping that in a coconut curry????  Sigh.....

[Anna N]

6 minutes ago, KennethT said:

That is most peculiar. I haven't made any duck in a long time, but years ago, my father and I would have a competition on who could make the best whole roast duck.  We must have gone through 6 or 8 ducks - they were all Long Island ducks, which I believe are the pekin breed, and all of those had copious amounts of fat - especially between the leg and the body and in the armpits (wingpits?).  Years later, when I learned about how the Chinese ducks were much leaner, I wished I could have had access to one - I would have won the contest for sure!

 

Making roti prata with duck fat would be ridiculous.  Dipping that in a coconut curry????  Sigh.....

So now I am completely confused. Are you saying that the Pekin duck breed in North America differs from the Pekin duck breed in China?

[heidih]

 

7 minutes ago, Anna N said:

So now I am completely confused. Are you saying that the Pekin duck breed in North America differs from the Pekin duck breed in China?

They originated in China. The American version sometimes referred to as Long Island is the line of breediing we did here. Europe took a different breeding program path so not identical. But all China originated. The Pekin/Peking similarity between breed and dish confuses some. They are big fat brilliant white ducks and the males particularly attractive with their tail curl. It is the common breed I find here for meat. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by heidih (log)

[AlaMoi]

there's another issue methinks . . . .

 

"crispy skin" - that requires high heat to surface-deep-fry the skin to 'crispy'

now....  high heat and really good prepped duck meat - two things that don't get along.

 

super known/controlled temps conditions, et. al., may result in a fatty leg with a crisp skin and tender meat -

but that's a stretch.

[heidih]

I just clicked n an Eater LA article about dry age fish and this refernce to Mary's chicken popped up suggesting to e perhapos re the duck flavor focus as sales [oint. I think @JoNorvelleWalker lamented lack of fat for her recipe but good flavor. of duck meat.

Adding “dry-aged fish” to a menu is becoming as eye-catching as saying a dish is made with Mary’s chicken or wagyu. 

 

[Kerala]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:14 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 Great flavor, but it wouldn't work in any duck recipe I've ever read.

 

Wouldn't it work to confit the duck, then finish under a hot grill? Tender meat and crisp skin?

[liuzhou]

 

Peking duck and Pekin duck are only confused in English. In fact, they were originally both the same till some not-so-bright spark came up with Pekin for the breed in order to reduce the confusion. One of modern life's great success stories. Not.

 

 

Even worse is that neither the dish nor the breed originated in Beijing and certainly not anywhere called Peking. I wish I had a yuan for everytime I've been asked why and when the capital of China changed its name. It didn't. It has always been pronounced Beijing - all that changed was the transliteration system used in the west from the unreliable Wade-Giles to to the more accurate Pinyin. Peking was never officially accepted as the name, although Peking University is allowed to retain that name for use in English, due to its international fame. It is one of a handful of names not switched to Pinyin. Tsingtao Beer is actually Qingdao beer in China and Moutai, the strong spirit is Maotai in Pinyin.

 

The duck breed's exact origin is uncertain but almost certainly somewhere in south-east  Asia (perhaps China, but probably not), far from Beijing. It came to the atttention of the imperial court and slowly gained in popluarity.

 

The dish, Beijing duck originated in Nanjing, the Ming Dynasty capital, then migrated to Beijing when the emperors relocated, establishing Beijing as the new capital. In Beijing, the dish became more available to those outside the court and rapidly gained popularity. It was then it was given the Beijing name.

Regarding the lack of confusion in Chinese, the duck is called 北京鸭 (běi jīng yā), literally 'Beijing Duck' in Mandarin while the dish is always referred to as 北京烤鸭 (běi jīng kǎo yā ), literally Beijing Roast Duck.

 

北京烤鸭 ("Peking Duck") in a Chinese Walmart store

 

Some Chinese ducks (10 hens and two drakes) were imported to the USA in 1872 and a breeding program put in place. This mostly took place on Long Island and gave rise to the American Pekin duck. At the same time ducks were imported to the UK. Some of the UK ducks found their way to Germany where they were bred. Today, nearly all Peking ducks in  Europe are German Pekin. They have even been reimported to the UK. Chinese, American and German Pekins vary due to the different breeding programs utilised.

 

The Chinese Pekins, as still used in Beijing's restaurants are, of course, the Chinese variety and are less fatty than the US and German types.

 

Chinese Pekin Duck  Legs

 

My local shopkeeper with two live Pekin Ducks.

Edited December 4, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[Anna N]

30 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

The Chinese Pekins, as still used in Beijing's restaurants are, of course, the Chinese variety and are less fatty than the US and German types.

Thank you. This was all I was trying to ascertain.

[Anna N]

 

Came across this at the supermarket where I usually place my online food orders. I couldn’t resist posting it although I managed to resist ordering it.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Anna N
Typos (log)

[blue_dolphin]

Heard this new-ish book recommended today by the owner of Omnivore Books in San Francisco and thought I’d mention it here:

The Whole Duck: Inspired Recipes from Chefs, Butchers, and the Family at Liberty Ducks (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

Amazon's “Look Inside” view shows a good bit of the intro but no full recipes, which sound very tasty from the table of contents listing. 

 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, blue_dolphin said:

Heard this new-ish book recommended today by the owner of Omnivore Books in San Francisco and thought I’d mention it here:

The Whole Duck: Inspired Recipes from Chefs, Butchers, and the Family at Liberty Ducks (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

Amazon's “Look Inside” view shows a good bit of the intro but no full recipes, which sound very tasty from the table of contents listing. 

 

Thanks for this, b-d.   The kindle version of look-inside has an excellent and complete segment on butchering a duck.   

[Anna N]

There is an older book by James Peterson which is well worth chasing down. It was published in 2003 and is called The Duck Cookbook. You might be lucky enough to find it in a thrift store. It’s a bit pricey on amazon.ca.

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, blue_dolphin said:

Amazon's “Look Inside” view shows a good bit of the intro but no full recipes, which sound very tasty from the table of contents listing. 

 

Here are a few recipes from the book. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Bay Wolf (Oakland, CA) was a major player in California Cuisine.    Their menu was in many ways "duck-centric", their being said to always have had a caldron of duck stock on the back burner.    The cookbook, while dated, is a classic, with duck recipes that reflect a joyous culinary era.    Bay Wolf was an early supporter and client of Liberty Farms and is saluted in The Whole Duck.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Margaret Pilgrim (log)

[rotuts]

this morning @ MarketBasket

 

Remembered o check the ducks :

 

Fz , Maple Leaf , from Canada :

 

$ 7.49 //lbs  3.5lbs duck  :  $ 26 

 

12 % added Canadian salt water !

 

the salt water came to approx  $ 3.15

 

[chromedome]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

this morning @ MarketBasket

 

Remembered o check the ducks :

 

Fz , Maple Leaf , from Canada :

 

$ 7.49 //lbs  3.5lbs duck  :  $ 26 

 

12 % added Canadian salt water !

 

the salt water came to approx  $ 3.15

 

Huh. My local No Frills (the discount arm of Loblaw's, our largest grocery chain) has ducks for $3CDN/lb, up from $2/lb back in the spring. They're costlier at the main supermarkets, mind you.

[rotuts]

Market Basket is consistently a little

 

cheaper than other chains in my area .

 

Wonder what Wegmans charges .

 

and WF ?

[blue_dolphin]

59 minutes ago, rotuts said:

and WF ?

Wild Fork (probably not the WF you had in mind) sells whole Pekin ducks from Culver Duck Farms @ $4.38/lb, about the same as Culver charges on their website. 
 

Aldi periodically has whole, frozen ducks from a Canadian supplier @ $2.49/lb, also with the 12% brine that @rotuts mentioned.  $2.49 Aldi salt water is a little less annoying than $7.49 Market Basket salt water 😉

[rotuts]

the WHPS  will be keeping that in mind.

 

it has an empty freezer to fill !

[Anna N]

I can buy Brome Lake frozen duck for $4.49/lb. No brine. Used to be closer to $2.99/lb. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I always think back to sending DH to my favorite Chinese market to buy 2 ducks for a dinner party.     Since few at the market spoke English, I sent him off with a 3x5 card on which I had drawn a duck head with neck, duck body and duck feet.   I instructed him to choose 2 ducks, put them in plastic bags, pay for them, then return to the butcher counter and hand the nice man the card.  Nice man cut up the ducks as shown and husband came home an accomplished shopper.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

47 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I always think back to sending DH to my favorite Chinese market to buy 2 ducks for a dinner party.     Since few at the market spoke English, I sent him off with a 3x5 card on which I had drawn a duck head with neck, duck body and duck feet.   I instructed him to choose 2 ducks, put them in plastic bags, pay for them, then return to the butcher counter and hand the nice man the card.  Nice man cut up the ducks as shown and husband came home an accomplished shopper.

 

Must be hard to stuff a duck into a plastic bag.

 

Last night I cooked my last leg from Mary's Duck.  This time for nine hours at 72C followed by about five minutes at 250C.  Easier to eat than the other night, still not great.  And for some reason the flavor was not as good.

 

Today I ordered chicken thighs.

 

[rotuts]

@JoNorvelleWalker 

 

is Mary's duck

 

from Mary's n CA ?

 

https://www.marysturkeys.com