Thanksgiving's Day Traditions

[rotuts]

if you deconstruct a turkey  a la Julia & Jacque  and placed it on top of the stuffing and bake it carefully everything turns out fine.

 

if you were able to do this in a CombiOven   it would be even better and more forgiving.

 

it even looks a bit like a turkey as the legs point upward and still have their bone in them

 

and you get a lot more stuffing.

 

I did it this way for years  using the largest turkey I could find.  Breast / thighs boned out.

 

carcass used for stock  which then became gravy the nest day while the turkey was roasting

 

and the stock was used in the stuffing pre package directions   I sometimes used 3 bags of PF cornbread stuffing mix

 

which the bird 'lay' on while roasting.

 

no carving hassle either.

Edited October 24, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

here are some older pics of the process :

 

 

stuffing in the pan

 

 

turkey on top   Breast  thigh  legs and wings.  legs and wings have bones

 

 

done.

 

that's a 22 lb bird and several bags of cornbread stuffing.

 

thats a very big pan

Edited October 24, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[Shelby]

@Katie Meadow

 

UGH, what an irritating situation.  I'm not big on family dinners like that anyway....but I won't go into all that lol.

 

I can't remember if I got this big white electric roaster from my Grammy or my mother-in-law.  It's similar to this one  only it's way older...and I think bigger.  You could do the turkey the day before, keep it in the fridge (whole maybe to keep the juices in?) and then carve it, put it in foil and warm it up/keep it warm in the roaster.  I think my grammy would put some water in the bottom, put a rack in and then put the turkey wrapped in foil on the top of the rack.  Or I could be delusional and maybe it was me that did that years ago lol.  But it was never dry and it was nice and warm.  And kept the oven free.

[Katie Meadow]

Thank you all for your comments. The real goals here are simplicity, less work for me the day of, and being able to bring a platter of parts plus slices to the table reasonably moist and edible. There is no sous vide in my life. There is no desire to make it look like I just took a perfect whole turkey out of the oven. This family is way beyond presentation. I love them deeply and I am also sick of them, if you get my drift. And, to their credit, none of them really care as long as the table looks pretty much like it has every year since they were born, there's an abundance of vegetarian dishes and the wine is flowing. Creativity is not typically a plus with this crowd at Thanksgiving. I do think there would be takers for those onions, though, as long as no bacon fat is involved. 

 

So, as per some suggestions, after the bird is cooked on Wednesday and we have had the crispiest parts for dinner, I will break up the beast into several pieces and wrap them well in foil and put them in the fridge. The day of I will put a selection of pieces in a roasting pan with a bit of turkey stock for moisture, cover the pan with foil, and heat it in the oven. As far as keeping the turkey from drying out, is it wiser not to slice anything before reheating? Slices would get warm a lot quicker, no? But some people do like the option of whole parts, so maybe slices would dry out, unless they were heated in a separate pan for less time, which is an option. What do you think? 

[ProfessionalHobbit]

13 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

 

 

Prof. Hobbit those onions are to die for. How do you do them?  

 

thanks Katie.

 

 

Unfortunately we weren't able to get properly-sized onions at the market. The ones pictured are double to triple the size of normal-sized cipolline. I decided to go ahead and adjust accordingly.

Peel, then boil in lightly salted water until easily pierced by a fork or the tip of a knife, about 20-25 minutes.

 

 

Clockwise from lower left: 2 tbsp. organic sugar, 1/2 cup balsamic vinegar, 3 tbsp. unsalted butter, 1 1/2 tsp. kosher salt.

 

Most recipes for sweet-and-sour onions up the sugar, which I think is a mistake.  This recipe (which is a Lidia Bastianich recipe) doesn't use as much and is our go-to method.

 

 

After the onions were done boiling, I drained them, then cut each into wedges. I thought about leaving the root ends intact, but in the end removed them.

 

 

 

Melt butter in a skillet over medium heat. Once the butter foams, add the onions. Toss them carefully, making sure they're glazed with butter, stirring occasionally. Season with sea salt. Cook until onions are caramelized all over.

 

 

 

Add the balsamic vinegar and sugar. Stir. The liquid will thicken fairly rapidly as the sugar dissolves. Cook for 5 minutes, stirring frequently, or until the syrup thickens and glazes the cipolline.

 

 

[ProfessionalHobbit]

We've decided to cook Italian food this year instead of turkey.

 

At the moment, I'm contemplating what to make.

 

The main course will feature braised meats, meatballs, pasta and Sunday sauce.  We've invited a VERY hungry group of eaters and I'm a little curious whether they'll demolish/decimate the offerings as expected.

 

ETA that I'll liveblog everything on eGullet and Facebook.

Edited October 24, 2016 by ProfessionalHobbit (log)

[Martin Fisher]

51 minutes ago, ProfessionalHobbit said:

We've decided to cook Italian food this year instead of turkey.

 

At the moment, I'm contemplating what to make.

 

The main course will feature braised meats, meatballs, pasta and Sunday sauce.

 

FWIW,

One year I made cranberry 'marinara' , turkey meatballs, etc.

It was a BIG hit, the crowd loved it!

 

[Katie Meadow]

Thanks, prof, for the detailed onion pix and instructions. Lovely. I've been seeing those cipollini onions all season and just haven't bought any, mainly because I really didn't know what to do with them.

 

If I were doing an Italian Thanksgiving I would make sweet potato (garnet yam) gnocchi with brown butter sage sauce. A friend served that the Friday after T day one year and it was everything anyone could want out of that vegetable. I think I will cook my turkey as planned the day ahead but then let my relatives figure out what to do with it along with their traditional bucket of cement, also known as mashed potatoes. (They mean well, but as you can see I'm on a roll.) Meanwhile I will be dining  in SF Chez Shire. Say that several times, very fast.

[ProfessionalHobbit]

They're a staple on the antipasto plate.

[kayb]

@DiggingDogFarm--- Would LOVE the details on the turkey meatballs in cranberry marinara. Sounds like something my crowd would love.

 

[Martin Fisher]

11 hours ago, kayb said:

@DiggingDogFarm--- Would LOVE the details on the turkey meatballs in cranberry marinara. Sounds like something my crowd would love.

 

 

I was afraid someone would ask! LOL

It's been a long time —25+ years!

I can't remember exactly how I made it.

I didn't follow a recipe but I know I used canned whole cranberries, some dried cranberries, red wine — something like this.

 

HTH

 

[Martin Fisher]

"Tradition" here the past few years has been:

 

Scratch-cured and hickory smoked hardscrabble (cottage) ham with bourbon glaze.
Charcoal-grilled, dry-brined and spatchcocked broad-breasted bronze turkey.
Cast iron skillet baked onion bagel, hickory nut and apple dressing.
Savory oyster bread pudding.
Stuffed baked sweet potatoes topped with maple hickory nut crumble.

Mashed taters and turkey jus gras.
Creamed Monnopa spinach.
Blue cheese broccoli casserole.
Cranberry-Chipotle sauce.
Butter and egg cloverleaf rolls.
Pumpkin cheesecake with gingersnap crust...topped with a dollop of bourbon whipped cream.
Finger Lakes Riesling.

[gfweb]

18 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

"Tradition" here the past few years has been:

 

Scratch-cured and hickory smoked hardscrabble (cottage) ham with bourbon glaze.
Charcoal-grilled, dry-brined and spatchcocked broad-breasted bronze turkey.
Cast iron skillet baked onion bagel, hickory nut and apple dressing.
Savory oyster bread pudding.
Stuffed baked sweet potatoes topped with maple hickory nut crumble.

Mashed taters and turkey jus gras.
Creamed Monnopa spinach.
Blue cheese broccoli casserole.
Cranberry-Chipotle sauce.
Butter and egg cloverleaf rolls.
Pumpkin cheesecake with gingersnap crust...topped with a dollop of bourbon whipped cream.
Finger Lakes Riesling.

 

I could be up there on Thanksgiving....

[Katie Meadow]

I would eat anything that was spatchcocked, cloverleafed or hardscrabbled, although I admit I have no idea what hardscrabble is, but they are all such excellent words. Oh, and how do you scratch-cure something? Get the turkey to walk back and forth on it for several hours before the poor bird is dispatched for spatchcocking?

 

And what is turkey jus gras? I'm guessing it's modernist for extra fatty turkey gravy. I could get behind that on mashed potatoes. 

 

Okay, onion bagel dressing is hilarious; forget tedious chopping and frying of onions and go right to the source! I would eat that in a New York minute, if only to tell the tale. And stale onion bagels are a snap.

 

[Martin Fisher]

57 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

I would eat anything that was spatchcocked, cloverleafed or hardscrabbled, although I admit I have no idea what hardscrabble is, but they are all such excellent words.

 

Source: Vocabulary Dictionary and Workbook: 2,856 Words You Must Know, By Mark Phillips.

 

There's a Hardscrabble Road not far from where I grew up in Tioga County, PA

 

1 hour ago, Katie Meadow said:

Oh, and how do you scratch-cure something?

 

Cured with pink salt [salt and sodium nitrite (6.25%)], etc.

 

1 hour ago, Katie Meadow said:

And what is turkey jus gras? I'm guessing it's modernist for extra fatty turkey gravy.

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, Katie Meadow said:

Okay, onion bagel dressing is hilarious; forget tedious chopping and frying of onions and go right to the source!

 

I add onions.

[Katie Meadow]

Okay, thanks! So hardscrabble ham is exactly what? Just ham tipping its hat to hard land and tough folk?

[Martin Fisher]

It's actually a cottage (or daisy) ham cut from the shoulder.

The name is locally colloquial. 

[Thanks for the Crepes]

19 hours ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

It's actually a cottage (or daisy) ham cut from the shoulder.

The name is locally colloquial. 

 

@Mmmpomps recently called this cut a "cottage roll" in the Instant Pot thread. I had to Google to figure out what she was talking about. In these parts, it's just called "shoulder ham" or "picnic ham",and we have a smoked version too. I like them both.

 

One day some saint will standardize meat cut terminology, but probably not in my lifetime. 

[chromedome]

2 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

 

@Mmmpomps recently called this cut a "cottage roll" in the Instant Pot thread. I had to Google to figure out what she was talking about. In these parts, it's just called "shoulder ham" or "picnic ham",and we have a smoked version too. I like them both.

 

One day some saint will standardize meat cut terminology, but probably not in my lifetime. 

 

The cottage roll Mmmmpomps mentioned isn't the same as a picnic ham. A picnic is a piece of shoulder that's otherwise -- for lack of a better term -- ham-like. A cottage roll is salted pork shoulder, more along the lines of old-school "pickled" pork or beef. At least that's what it is here in Atlantic Canada...Alberta might be different. 

[Martin Fisher]

This is, specifically, what I'm talking about:

 

I cut them out of almost all Boston butts.

It ups the percentage of fat in the remaining shoulder to what I prefer for sausage making.

Edited October 28, 2016 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[Mmmpomps]

4 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

 

@Mmmpomps recently called this cut a "cottage roll" in the Instant Pot thread. I had to Google to figure out what she was talking about. In these parts, it's just called "shoulder ham" or "picnic ham",and we have a smoked version too. I like them both.

 

One day some saint will standardize meat cut terminology, but probably not in my lifetime. 

We had the same conversation the night I made that cottage roll. Out East (Ontario, Canada) Cottage Rolls were easy to find. I moved out West and could only find Picnic Shoulders/hams. But the last few years I have once again found cottage roll. Then we had to have a big debate on where all the cuts were from and why they are called that! My Mom really had the final say; "In Ireland we use bacon and bacon is the best." Mom is always right

[Katie Meadow]

Just a little googling and it seems that the Cottage Roll or Cottage Ham originated in Cincinnati (you have to be proud of something in your home town) and is a part of the shoulder that is brined and not cured or smoked in the same way as "ham."  Does that mean it's sort of the pork version of corned beef? Supposedly it is sold raw after brining, wrapped in a net, and often got boiled rather than baked. My mother, coming from a fairly strict Jewish household in Cincinnati, never cooked a ham in her life, although she moved to NY in her twenties and acquired a taste for bacon. 

[Martin Fisher]

I don't think anyone knows where the term cottage ham originated.

I first heard the term in New Jersey.

 

"The Stehlins and other butchers carve cottage hams, weighing about 2 to 3 pounds, from the upper part of the Boston butt, which is from the pork shoulder. Before they are cured and smoked, cottage hams are about the size and shape of a large, rectangular brick.

 

The Ohio Dept. of Agriculture labels the cuts “smoked pork shoulder butts,” but in Cincinnati many butchers and customers have always called them “cottage hams.”

 

No one — including the Stehlins — know where the “cottage” term comes from — except that the name is indigenous and limited to the Cincinnati area, [not correct] and has been used for at least a century.

 

 “I'm sure they sell shoulder butts in other parts of the country,” says Werneth Avril, retired owner of Avril's Meats, downtown. “But if you ask for a cottage ham anywhere else, they'll say "huh?”'

   

The name “cottage cheese,” used to describe moist, soft, white cheese, entered the language by the middle of the 19th century, says John Mariani in his Dictionary of American Food and Drink (Hearst; $19.95). But he doesn't explain why “cottage” was used, and he doesn't mention “cottage ham.”

 

A reasonable theory on the term's origins might be that a Cincinnati butcher dubbed them “cottage hams” a long time ago because they are small, like a “cottage” home — the right size for cooking in a pot of beans.

 

 At the very least, “cottage hams” sound more appetizing than “smoked shoulder butts.”

 

Source: The Cincinnati Enquirer

 

Meanwhile, in New Jersey....

https://pulaskimeats.com/product/cottage-ham/

https://schmalzs.com/collections/frontpage/products/smoked-cottage-ham

http://www.foodmenuprice.com/menu/piast-meats-and-provisions/new-jersey/garfield/500115/

 

Also and FWIW, from the book: The Modern Packing House: A Complete Treatise on the Designing, Construction ... By Fred William Wilder, Copyright 1905

[chileheadmike]

I was in Cincinnati this past weekend.  I stopped off and spent an hour or two at Jungle Jim's. Crazy grocery store where I bought tons of cheese, produce and hot sauce. They also had cottage ham. Bluegrass brand. Fully cooked, smoked, water added.  

 

I had some cooked with pinto beans and some with cheese. Pretty good stuff although nothing mind blowing. 

[Kim Shook]

On 10/23/2016 at 11:16 PM, Katie Meadow said:

My husband and I have been making the turkey for about 30 years. In those 30 years neither of us has missed a Thanksgiving with his family: his parents (now only his mom), three siblings plus partners and some or all of their five millennial  offspring. This is a family of very different habits. Some are vegetarians, some don't really care for turkey but think it belongs on the table, three large 20-something boys can inhale a fair amount, and so can my hollow legged husband. And then there's me. I'm bored with cooking it, I don't even like turkey that much, but I swear turkey soup is a narcotic for me, so I need the carcass.  Also I'm in it for my husband's gravy, which is fantastic; leftover gravy makes for a fantastic turkey pot pie.

 

None of this has anything to do with the latest family wrinkle. We always sat down to dinner around 6:30. But one strong-minded in law has now decided she wants to eat early in the day, like 2 pm. No one wants to cross this woman, and that's all you need to know about her. My husband and I do a lot of work for this meal, and one thing I'm growing increasingly tired of is the chaos in the kitchen working up to dinner hour. Also I don't wish to be in a hurry, scrambling to get things done, etc. When I pointed out to said family members that I wasn't keen on waking up early just so I could get a turkey in the oven by 11 am, one BIL suggested I set an alarm. And he actually meant it. Well, hell will freeze over before I do that on Thanksgiving morning. 

 

So, although I grumbled at first, I am now secretly thrilled with our solution: we are going to cook the turkey the day ahead. We will wake up alone at a beach house. It will be peaceful. We will have a long leisurely breakfast. And later we can nibble on the crunchy parts in private. Sounds naughty, doesn't it? Mmm, the Pope's Nose, as my mother used to call it. And we won't have to navigate the kitchen or fight for oven space during the main event, which is Grand Central Station.

 

Yes, I do have a question. How best to heat and serve the turkey meat the day of? Can it be kept in a cool place overnight, but not in the fridge, so it doesn't dry out at all? Heat it in the oven? Microwave? It will be a dry-brined turkey with no stuffing. No clue, any ideas welcome. And remember, my goal is to do as little work as possible on Thursday, so no rolling it up or layering or anything interesting. I'm looking forward to sitting around at 1 pm with a cocktail and and not caring what happens next! Sadly the five cousins, including my daughter, either can't or don't like to boil water, so future is a bit murky when it comes to tradition. And if she continues to live in Atlanta she won't be cooking my turkey an time soon.

 

Prof. Hobbit those onions are to die for. How do you do them?  OMG I've written a novel.

Now I know this will sound heretical to some, but hear me out.  I got extremely tired of trying to cook a turkey last minute, so I was looking for ways to do it ahead.  I don't have a lot of fancy set ups - no sous vide, no combi oven, etc.  But I do have one of those old fashioned roaster ovens.  And a couple of slow cookers.  I use the roaster oven to cook the turkey the day before.  I find that, with brining, it makes an incredibly moist and fuss-free turkey.  (I have always cooked it whole, but now that I think about it, it might be better to separate the breast and the leg quarters). When it's done, I carve the turkey as I would to serve it.  Then it all goes in freezer bags with a good amount of really good homemade stock.  I refrigerate it and reheat it the next day in a slow cooker WITH the stock.  Since I've started doing this everyone says it is the best turkey I've ever made.  And the leftovers make tender, moist meat for sandwiches.  I really don't care for roasting already cooked poultry - I always find it gives it a funny texture and flavor, no matter how well it is wrapped.