Pots and Pots and Pans

[Dr. Teeth]

Yeah, they are pretty upfront that it’s gas only.

 

For me it’s 110 bucks for a new spaghetti pot.   Now, I can say safely that I will make 1000 more pots of spaghetti in my lifetime, but I’m not sure it justifies the expense, particularly when you factor in the cost of the divorce when I bring home another pot I don’t need.

 

It will also be copied by every low end cookware manufacturer (chef’n, pampered chef) if it does work as advertised.

[weinoo]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I find that when I’m waiting that dreadful extra few minutes for the water to boil, I’ve got some other kitchen stuff to take care of.

 

And what’s the big rush in the kitchen?  I cook because I enjoy cooking (and I assume many here feel the same); I see no reason to rush through it.

[chromedome]

10 hours ago, palo said:

My take:

 

- definitely work more efficiently with gas because of the vanes which provide a more receptive and in turn more dispersive environment for the gas heat

- however as electric stoves use conductive heat a reduction in the contact area makes it less efficient than if they had a flat bottom

- induction? the jury is out but I would guess the same logic as electric stoves would apply

 

My take is always susceptible to corrections and outright denials

 

p

Their site says they're working on an induction-friendly unit, and bluntly confesses that on conventional electric stoves they're a pot like any other.

[Anna N]

10 hours ago, chromedome said:

Their site says they're working on an induction-friendly unit, and bluntly confesses that on conventional electric stoves they're a pot like any other.

Given that gas ranges are being fingered as evil with respect to climate change it would be a wise business decision to develop something that works with induction. But induction is so fast one wonders how much of an improvement is possible. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

21 hours ago, weinoo said:

I don’t know about anyone else, but I find that when I’m waiting that dreadful extra few minutes for the water to boil, I’ve got some other kitchen stuff to take care of.

 Exactly.     Cooking is about integrating processes.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Margaret Pilgrim (log)

[TdeV]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:09 PM, blue_dolphin said:

Mine are all either in the kitchen or garage aside from the bean pots that reside on the cookbook shelves as objets d'art when not in use.

 

Sorry to be so late on this, @blue_dolphin, might you be willing to add a thread (or add to this thread) with a gallery tour of your bean pots?

[KennethT]

For all of you with lots of pots/pans, has anyone used an All-Clad D3 or D5 6 or 8Qt stockpot on induction?  They claim it's induction compatible, but with only the thin layer of stainless steel on the outside, I wonder how well it works.  As most All Clad is/was, I assume it was originally designed to function on gas - indeed, my 20 year old LTD (with the anodized aluminum exterior) works great on gas, but not at all on induction.

[palo]

Magnet test

 

I have the All Clad D3 fry pan which works flawlessly on induction

 

p

[KennethT]

11 hours ago, palo said:

Magnet test

 

I have the All Clad D3 fry pan which works flawlessly on induction

 

p

thanks - does it heat evenly or are there hot spots on induction?

[palo]

Evenly in my opinion, but that's very subjective - I remember someone did a test with flour - don't remember what they were testing - I just remember the pix

 

p

[btbyrd]

It depends on the induction burner. Almost all of the ones I've seen in the US have tiny coils that generate a hot spot with uneven heat. This isn't a problem with smaller cookware, but with a larger stock pot, it can cause problems if you're simmering something thick like a tomato sauce. This is less a problem with the cookware and more a product of how garbage our induction hobs are here. I say that because I've been assured by several Europeans that their induction cooktops and hobs don't really have this problem.

 

I have a bunch of D3 as well as some D7 and Copper Core. I also have a Vollrath Mirage Pro induction unit. Even though the cookware is good and it's a commercial burner, there are still big hot spots, even with copper or huge metal sandwiches like on the D7. A small 8" D3 pan will work flawlessly on induction and you won't notice any hot spots. But once you go up in cookware size, the spot emerges. If you put an inch or two of water in a 12" D3, D7, or Copper Core pan, only the part of the pan directly above the induction coil will boil vigorously. It's like that even on super-dupes high end 1800W units like the Control Freak. The problem isn't the cookware.

 

That said, I use my induction frequently with a cheap 8qt Presto pressure cooker to make stock. Works great! And it's fine for making most soups, even in larger pots. But something thick like chili or tomato sauce or something might not heat evenly since the thick soup/stew/whatever won't circulate itself via convection.

Edited February 22, 2023 by btbyrd (log)

[btbyrd]

In this next installment of my continuing series “Why Induction Sucks,” I boil water in some primo All Clad cookware over a primo $750 commercial 1800W induction unit.

 

D3 8 inch skillet:

 

 

Vigorous boil around the perimeter, cold spot at the center.

 

 

Copper Core stock pot:

 

 

Cold spot in center, ring of deep vigorous boiling, cold perimeter.

 

 

 

D7 12 inch saute pan. She thiccc with three cs.

 

 

 

Similar to the copper core but with a less well defined “ring of fire.”

 

 

So hot spots and cold zones all around. The cookware isn’t the problem.

Edited February 22, 2023 by btbyrd (log)

[TicTac]

Does that induction unit list what diameter pans it maxes out at?

 

They just look too big for the unit, from this perspective.

 

Great pots/pans though.  I love my AC Masterchef series.

 

[btbyrd]

The maximum recommended cookware size you can use with the best 1800W induction hobs is ten inches. That's what it is for the Control Freak. The Vollrath is specced slightly higher at 10.25 inches, but it performs basically the same in practice (at least with respect to evenness of heat). So yes some of these pans were too big. The 8" pan definitely wasn't, but it still had a marked cold zone in the center. That's not trivial if you're doing something like searing protein. Even with 10" cookware, there's both a cold spot in the middle of the pan and falloff around the perimeter. It just gets worse when you use larger cookware.

 

Whether it matters in practice depends on what you're doing. I use my copper core on induction all the time to boil noodles or make soup. But if I'm going to be doing any sauteeing or searing, I have to be very deliberate about the size of cookware I'm using and where on the pan I place the food. If you put a scallop in the center of the pan, it's going to sear way differently than its friends will in the Ring of Fire.

[TicTac]

30 minutes ago, btbyrd said:

The maximum recommended cookware size you can use with the best 1800W induction hobs is ten inches. That's what it is for the Control Freak. The Vollrath is specced slightly higher at 10.25 inches, but it performs basically the same in practice (at least with respect to evenness of heat). So yes some of these pans were too big. The 8" pan definitely wasn't, but it still had a marked cold zone in the center. That's not trivial if you're doing something like searing protein. Even with 10" cookware, there's both a cold spot in the middle of the pan and falloff around the perimeter. It just gets worse when you use larger cookware.

 

Whether it matters in practice depends on what you're doing. I use my copper core on induction all the time to boil noodles or make soup. But if I'm going to be doing any sauteeing or searing, I have to be very deliberate about the size of cookware I'm using and where on the pan I place the food. If you put a scallop in the center of the pan, it's going to sear way differently than its friends will in the Ring of Fire.

Least you now know. 

 

I find something similar with the wolf gas ranges - as they have a double circle flame setup - vs say a bluestar, that uses an X shape flame.

 

Dead center of the pan is always cooler than if you go outward from said center. 

 

 

[btbyrd]

My cookware addiction, like all of my consumptive addictions, is mercifully self-limiting. Once I (thoroughly) cover the bases, I don't feel a strong pull to buy more. If a new pot or pan isn't going to do much for me functionally, I don't find it all that desirable. But if I've got a particular need for a pan, or if there's an obvious gap in my batterie, I feel the urge. Here's a quick outline of what I have with some quick commentary.

 

From All Clad I have 3 D3 saucepans (or pots, as normal people call them) with lids in 1.5qt, 3qt, and 4qt sizes. That's a pretty good range, though I kind of want a 2 or 2.5qt saucier to fill in the gap between the 1.5 and 3qt pans. I also have two D3 skillets, 8 and 12 inch. These get used less frequently than they used to, as I tend to use my nonstick and carbon steel skillets more often for some reason. The D3 skillets are slightly lighter weight than I prefer, but they're still great performers. Moving away from the D3, I have the D7 12" skillet. It is big, bad, and in charge. Huge and heavy and awesome. It's my stainless alternative to cast iron or carbon steel for searing. The stainlessness makes it great for making acidic pan sauces, which are my preference. I'd like to have a 10" Copper Core saute pan to do some shallow frying in.

 

My last 2 All Clad pans are stock pots. The first was featured above: a Copper Core 8qt stock pot. It's more of a soup and pasta pot than a stock pot, given its small size. But it's great for soups. Nice big flat bottom also sears well and the high walls mostly contains the spatter. In Stock Pot country, I also have a Mystery Line All Clad stock pot with steamer inserts that I was gifted for my wedding many years ago. I think it's 12 qts. Unfortunately, it's not induction compatible. I basically only use this to make larger quantities of stock on the stovetop or in the oven. But I mostly use pressure cookers for stock. So yeah, it's not super useful. Maybe if I get into making tamales, or if I want to fry a turkey on my wok burner. Or something.

 

My only other piece of stainless cookware also mostly gets used for stock making. It's a cheap Presto 8-qt pressure cooker with a disc bottom that works pretty okay. I wish I had a fancier pressure cooker, but I bought this when I was a grad student just getting into cooking in a serious way. It was a bargain, and I'm glad I have it. The base works very well as a standalone pot, with the only drawback being the handles that aren't oven-safe. I'd happily swap it out for a Kuhn Rikon or a Fissler though. Who wouldn't? And I have an Instant Pot too, so...

 

That covers my stainless cookware. Before I go into the other metals, I'd like to give a shout out to my 3 Alonon copper nouveau nonstick skillets (8, 10, and 12 inch). Unlike most nonstick pans, which are thin and tend to overheat locally, these have a thick layer on the bottom of aluminum, copper, and stainless (at least I think that's what they are). It's not a lot of copper, but it's nice. The sides are very curved/sloped, which I don't prefer, but the shape works well for tossing food.  They're heavy nonstick pans that heat evenly and don't lose all their heat when you throw a lot of food into the pan. Unfortunately, Anolon stopped making them. It's almost time to replace them. Sad times. Nonstick pans are the only disposable pans in my kitchen. Everything else should last a lifetime.

 

For cast iron, I have a 12" Lodge skillet I got as a broke undergrad. Maybe the best $20 on kitchen equipment I've ever spent. I also have 8 and 10 inch vintage skillets that I inherited from my grandmothers. That's pretty cool. They mostly get used for cornbread duty. I also have a 4.5qt Lodge dutch oven that I use mostly for deep frying on induction. It's also a preferred vessel for certain "no knead" bread recipes, but I don't bake ever. Ever. Finally, I have an enamel coated Tramontina 8 qt dutch oven that was recommended by Cook's Illustrated in like 2008. That's what I use for braises, pot roasts, and heavy searing. It's great, and I think I got it for like $50 at Walmart 15 years ago. A great purchase. My parents have all kinds of Le Creuset pieces, and this compares favorably.

 

In carbon steel, I have a full set of the original Darto skillets as well as their No. 34 paella. I think the No. 34 paella is my favorite pan overall in the kitchen. It's just a huge thick slab of black steel. Incredible searing power. Great for shallow frying, large format fajitas, or nachos. It almost lives on my stovetop. The other Dartos are mostly used for searing or sautéing. I wish I had a No 27 paella to roast things in my Breville Smart Oven. Maybe some of the other smaller paella things. All my carbon steel is from Darto except for a 36cm wok that I got from Korin. I've used it twice for actual wokking. It's great, but I never use my wok burner. That's more of a personal failing than a problem with the cookware. I mostly use it for deep frying. Go outside to fry my fish and chips over a 100K BTU burner. You use less oil in a wok and don't have to worry about bubble-over. Basically an outdoor deep fryer, as far as I'm concerned. The wok itself performs great though and the handle doesn't get hot even though it's metal too (even over my monster wok burner). I would buy this wok again and again, but I'd buy it in this slightly smaller 33cm size.

 

The final three pieces of cookware I'll list are the ceramic donabes I purchased from Toiro Kitchen. I have one that is designed to make rice, and that's my official rice-maker. I also have a large one designed for smoking that was very expensive and is very underused. I feel bad about that, because it was my most expensive piece of cookware and I've used it less than 10 times. I am going to work on changing that though. Even less used is a tagine style donabe. I've used it to bake bread and to steam roast potatoes. Been meaning to make some actual tagines, but that never seems to happen. I think the base of it might work well as a comal though. So maybe it's actually a 2-in-1 device that I never use! At least it's not a unitasker!

 

All told, I think that's 24 pieces. Math was never my strong suit. 

[Anna N]

Just to play devil's advocate – – the sample pans that arrive packaged with an induction hob are almost always thin and cheap--suggesting that going for the finest of cookware is not the most appropriate route to take if you're going to make the best use of induction. Just saying. To sear a protein I'll tend to use a steel pan of the appropriate size for the hob. The heat evens out rapidly. 

[palo]

ATK did a review of portable cookers - electric, gas and induction - pros and cons

 

 

The part on induction is at 9:44 - but the whole thing is short enough to watch in total

 

Yes they did use the Breville Control Freak and though it was the be$$$t, it was their second choice.

 

p

[KennethT]

Has anyone used Vollrath cookware?  They are mostly geared toward pro use and there are some that are "optimized for use with Vollrath induction units", which I've been eyeing a high powered 240V unit lately....

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Has anyone used Vollrath cookware?  They are mostly geared toward pro use and there are some that are "optimized for use with Vollrath induction units", which I've been eyeing a high powered 240V unit lately....

l cook with Vollrath hotel pans.  Heavy duty stuff.  I’ve never used the Vollrath on induction but I use other hotel pans on induction with good results.

 

[weinoo]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:05 PM, btbyrd said:

though I kind of want a 2 or 2.5qt saucier to fill in the gap

Falk makes a beauty. What the fuck are you waiting for?

 

On 2/22/2023 at 10:05 PM, btbyrd said:

I also have a large one designed for smoking that was very expensive and is very underused. I feel bad about that, because it was my most expensive piece of cookware and I've used it less than 10 times.

The Gin!!  I guess I shouldn’t feel bad for using my cheap one (from Korin) less than 10 times.

[blue_dolphin]

7 hours ago, KennethT said:

Has anyone used Vollrath cookware?  They are mostly geared toward pro use and there are some that are "optimized for use with Vollrath induction units", which I've been eyeing a high powered 240V unit lately....

 

I have a nice old 14 qt Vollrath Toroware stockpot. Very sturdy pot but of no help to you as it's aluminum. 

[weinoo]

15 hours ago, KennethT said:

Has anyone used Vollrath cookware?  They are mostly geared toward pro use and there are some that are "optimized for use with Vollrath induction units", which I've been eyeing a high powered 240V unit lately....

 

Yes, Vollrath is good stuff - they also (I believe) own the Lincoln Wearever brand - both used in lots of professional kitchens.

[Rickbern]

I remembered reading that one of volraths lines was the same as Paderno so I googled it. This line of Paderno is pretty high quality I think

 

https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx2IEYIO9KPZTY8/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza

 

volrath is all over the map. Some of their stuff is all show and no go,some super high quality. Their catalog used to have a comparison page that explained which line was suitable for which purpose. It was pretty thorough. Optio and centurion have little in common

Edited March 3, 2023 by Rickbern (log)

[KennethT]

I wound up buying a super cheap Vigor (Webstaurant brand) just to try it out.  It was like $50 for a 8Qt stock pot - it's practically disposable, but I'm curious as to how it behaves - it should be fine for things like boiling water/cooking pasta.