Knife Sharpening Dilemma

[Porthos]

I have become reasonable proficient at producing good sharp edges when I sharpen knives. I have commented elsewhere about putting an edge on new knives because I can do better than factory-sharp (western knives).

 

My daughter and SIL gave his mother a set of the International Henckel knives that were being sold at Costco. My daughter, who cooks at her MIL's house a lot, and SIL said that the knives need a new edge. Here is my dilemma. I know my daughter's MIL well. She is a past member of our guild at the Southern ren faire I do and she did a year as part of the cooking team a few years ago. She is not a particularly careful person and lives alone. I am not sure I want to put knives as sharp as I produce in her hands. I haven't talked to my daughter of SIL about this yet because, even though we live under one roof, we haven't had much face time lately.  So: 1) do I put new edges on her knives and tell her to be very careful, 2) get feedback from my daughter and SIL about my concerns, or 3) go with my gut and decline to sharpen them because I don't trust L with really sharp knives. Your thoughts? Thanks in advance for the help and reality check this should provide for me.

 

p.s. This daughter turned 30 last month and her main gift was a Zwilling Henkels 4-star 8" chef's knife. She prefers 8".

[rotuts]

Id go with :

 

2) get feedback from my daughter and SIL about my concerns

 

after  2)

 

you can improve the edge  w/o turning them into scalpels  , i.e. EdgePro-ing them

[Porthos]

I do use my Edge Pro. I don't know if I know enough to put less of an edge on knives than I do. Serious. I am not sure what I would do differently.

[rotuts]

touch up the given edge of the knife w a ceramic sharpener 

[mgaretz]

Common wisdom is that a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one.

[Anna N]

1 minute ago, mgaretz said:

Common wisdom is that a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one.

Under most circumstances I wouldn't argue with you. But I sharpened some paring knives without telling the person who often used them and she cut herself.  And this was someone who prides herself on keeping her chef's knife sharp.  So it depends.   Most of us cut on the cutting board but not all of us!   Some will still peel a potato or other vegetable using nothing but their hands and a knife.   I guess I am just saying it is worth consulting before assuming.

 

@rotuts

 Wouldn't be without my ceramic "steels".

[rotuts]

indeed.

 

however  Id like to suggest this :

 

decent technique w the knife would advert most danger

 

W/O  that decent technique  :   you get a dangerous situation

 

with a dull knife  , as above   

 

you get a certain amount of damage.

 

that same person with their same technique  

 

and a razor sharp knife

 

would cause more damage , and indeed perhaps significant damage ?

 

however , once done

 

much easier  to repair as  the edges of the damage are so  sharp and clean

 

but who wants to spend 12 hrs +++   getting their finger tip  , which they cut off

 

surgically put back on ?

 

that's at least a nice lunch and dinner

 

lost forever.

[rotuts]

My grandmother

 

used to peel veg.  in her own hand  the the knife cutting against her L thumb  

 

she held the veg in her L hand

 

an d peeled w her R hand against her L thumb

 

this was a long time ago

 

but I did see , as, well I was 4 years old or so :

 

she had an impressive L thumb  from all the scar tissue.

Edited June 6, 2017 by rotuts (log)

[dcarch]

21 minutes ago, mgaretz said:

Common wisdom is that a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one.

 

I am not convinced. 

I have not been able to find studies to show.

 

dcarch

[Anna N]

12 minutes ago, rotuts said:

My grandmother

 

used to peel veg.  in her own hand  against her L thumb  

 

this was a long time ago

 

but I did see , as, well 4 years old or so 

 

she and an impressing L thumb  from all the scar tissue.

After all these years I can still picture my grandmother's thumb with its multiple vertical lines.  And I know there are still people who trap a loaf of bread under their arm and slice it that way!  

[Anna N]

6 minutes ago, dcarch said:

 

I am not convinced. 

I have not been able to find studies to show.

 

dcarch

I cannot point you to any studies but I know from personal experience that a dull knife will slip before it grabs and I have a few scars to prove it.  

[rotuts]

@Anna N 

 

nice w the bread

 

now that you mention it

 

ive seen this myself

 

in Europe 

 

w people on Picnic's 

 

same w sausage  etc

[rotuts]

the point being on damage w poor knife technique

 

I think there are very few people w

 

both not so sharp knives

 

[ lets call them the " Index " ]

 

and ultra sharp knives

 

the two injuries  they might get with A and B

 

would solve the problem

 

studying them  would confirm 

 

what Ever

Edited June 6, 2017 by rotuts (log)

[dcarch]

I have been cut by dull knives, and I have been cut by sharp knives. I can tell you that sharp knives can do much more damage.

You hear about anecdotal experiences:

" Doctors in emergency rooms see more accidents caused by dull knives."

 

Well, experienced cooks tend to have sharper knives, and better knife skills. It seems to me that is why you don't see more sharp knife accidents.

 

dcarch

 

[boilsover]

Clearly (1).  Tell them both the knives are now much sharper than they're used to.  Clear conscience and better results.

[gfron1]

This convo is turning to a larger debate, but I too would just finish it on a ceramic rod to knock it down a bit. Still very sharp, but not razor sharp.

[Porthos]

A couple of years ago I misplaced (read lost in the house somewhere) the ceramic hone that came with my Edge Pro. Reading the responses here spurred me on the replace it. I ordered the 10" with the wooden handle.

 

I am going to talk with my daughter and SIL but I think the idea of a touch-up with the hone has the most appeal to me.

[paulraphael]

Just warn her. People figure it out. She'll probably cut herself a couple of times by bumping against the edge, but these cuts from "too sharp knives" are usually minor league. 

Dull knives cut people by forcing them to use a lot of force ... and then if something slips, the knife is moving with a lot of speed and can cause really nasty and deep cut. 

 

I think the bigger issue is the longevity of the edges. There's no use handing someone a very sharp edge that's going to get damaged after 5 minutes of use. If you're sharpening for someone who has neither excellent knife skills nor excellent sharpening skills, the emphasis should be on a functional, durable edge that's easy to maintain. This can mean a relatively obtuse bevel angle, or a thin angle with very obtuse microbevel on one side. In either case, how you choose to set the bevel will determine how you teach her to maintain the edge. 

 

I see zero benefit in just dong a bad job (or sabotaging a good job) in the name of safety. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by paulraphael (log)

[Porthos]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

...  how you choose to set the bevel will determine how you teach her to maintain the edge.

 

L has no idea that my daughter and SIL want me to put new edges on her knives. She is out of state at the moment.

[rotuts]

this is not just s wonderful "" forum ""

 

its a forum that from time to time over thinks

 

that's good if you've been here for a while .............

 

but

 

the OP wants to improve a few knives for someone that 

 

doesn't understand them very much 

 

Im sure she understand you use them to  "" Cut ""

 

but not much more

 

Id ask 

 

@Porthos

 

to ask his daughter 

 

what does the the Mother think about this ?

 

if you change her system of cooking

 

a nice idea

 

then you have to move her along to a different system :

 

hand-knife technique 

 

the right cutting board etc

 

why not do  the whole Picture /

 

then again 

 

it may or not be the best Global Picture

 

for the Mother.

[weinoo]

How much do you like your daughter's MIL?

[palo]

If the mother likes the knives and they work for HER then that should be the end of the story! Daughter can bring her own knives or not cook.

 

p

[Porthos]

You have all given me a lot to think about.

 

At this point I need to talk with my daughter and SIL but that can't happen until probably next Monday as they are house sitting for L while she is out of state. Their work schdule makes a phone call difficult, and doesn't really allow me to talk with them at the same time.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I've been reading this thread and following the points of view.  Some of my knives are sharp by my standards, though probably not all that sharp by eGullet standards.  Some of my knives are intentionally less sharp.  If someone came into my kitchen and changed the angle of my knives or otherwise messed with them I would be bent all out of shape.

 

On the other hand, if someone I trusted offered to sharpen certain of my knives to a razor edge, I would probably be most grateful.

 

Respect your mother-in-law.  Offer to sharpen her knives.  Most likely she will be pleased and grateful.  Otherwise it is like replacing someone's dilithium crystals with Folger's crystals.

 

[Toliver]

My mom has a set of nice Cutco's but for most slicing and cutting in her kitchen, she uses a knife she bought in some generic Dollar store. The knife edge on it is quite dull and I get frustrated when I grab it instead of the Cutco version. I ask her why she uses it when it doesn't cut, and she replied that she liked the way it fits in her arthritic hands.

I agree with Mark who said:

On 6/6/2017 at 0:16 PM, mgaretz said:

Common wisdom is that a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one.

Now to get my older brother to put an edge on it sooner rather than later before something happens...

 

edited to add: Porthos, I would vote to put an edge on the knives. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Toliver
clarity (log)