The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Kerry Beal]

This loaf had been slowly rising in the garage for 36 hours when I got around to baking it in the CSO this morning. I might be a little more sour than hubby likes I suspect but it had a nice crunch crust when it came out of the oven. 

 

 

 

[Chris Hennes]

These are the Modernist Bread sourdough recipe with toasted sunflower seeds added (and omitting the bran). The final proof was at 13°C/55°F for 16 hours.

 

 

[heidih]

Thank goodness for this topic. It reminded me that I left a bowl of bread dough in the study where there is no draft. Time to start using post-its on the fridge as reminders...

[Desiderio]

From KaF recipe site, honey oat pain de mie https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/honey-oat-pain-de-mie-recipe . I tweaked it a bit, making a preferment, lowering the yeast amount (longer proofing time, S&F), and using some whole wheat flour as well. This is going to be a new staple at home, is incredibly fragrant and pillowy. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Life goes on.  For the nonce.

 

 

 

This time all low protein flour.

 

 

 

 

Edit:  I also baked cookies.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Lovely crumb.

 

[Smithy]

Thanks to @heidih's comment here and @Margaret Pilgrim's reply in the next post, I've tried the NYTimes no-knead bread twice. As usual for me, there are bumps along the way. I scorched the bottom of the loaf the first time (see here for a photo). Last night, knowing I needed to protect the bottom of the loaf and, preferably, the bottom of my enameled cast-iron pan, I tried putting a silicone trivet in the bottom of the pot. I worried somewhat that the silicone would overheat, but the trivet and the pot seem to have escaped unscathed. 

 

The first time I tried this, I let the loaf blob proof in an oiled bowl before sliding it into the preheated Dutch oven. This time, based on something I read somewhere here, I tried letting it rise on a very well-floured tea towel to be dumped straight into the pot from the towel. That was unsatisfying! Loaf stuck to the tea towel. I eventually got most of the blob into the pot, but that extra handling may explain why it didn't get the rise the first loaf had gotten. Either that, or the silicone trivet made more difference than preventing scorching.

 

Still, this was among the most open-crumbed breads I've made. It's worth continuing to work on. Top, bottom, crumb:

 

 

I love it when hot butter drips right through the holes.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

Thanks to @heidih's comment here and @Margaret Pilgrim's reply in the next post, I've tried the NYTimes no-knead bread twice. As usual for me, there are bumps along the way. I scorched the bottom of the loaf the first time (see here for a photo). Last night, knowing I needed to protect the bottom of the loaf and, preferably, the bottom of my enameled cast-iron pan, I tried putting a silicone trivet in the bottom of the pot. I worried somewhat that the silicone would overheat, but the trivet and the pot seem to have escaped unscathed. 

 

The first time I tried this, I let the loaf blob proof in an oiled bowl before sliding it into the preheated Dutch oven. This time, based on something I read somewhere here, I tried letting it rise on a very well-floured tea towel to be dumped straight into the pot from the towel. That was unsatisfying! Loaf stuck to the tea towel. I eventually got most of the blob into the pot, but that extra handling may explain why it didn't get the rise the first loaf had gotten. Either that, or the silicone trivet made more difference than preventing scorching.

 

Still, this was among the most open-crumbed breads I've made. It's worth continuing to work on. Top, bottom, crumb:

 

 

I love it when hot butter drips right through the holes.

 

Very pretty.  Having refreshed my memory of the NY Times recipe, am I correct with my math that the hydration is over 100%?

 

[robirdstx]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:13 PM, gfweb said:

What does one do to get a soft crust?

I really like Peter Reinhart’s Recipe for Classic White Bread in the Bread Baker’s Apprentice

[Smithy]

46 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Very pretty.  Having refreshed my memory of the NY Times recipe, am I correct with my math that the hydration is over 100%?

 

 

No, I think you have the ratio inverted. Looking down the notes on the NYTimes web site I see that Bittman provided weight conversions for the recipe: 345g water / 430g flour = 80% hydration. I was using the original volumetric recipe, so just now I got out the scale to see where mine came out: 388g water / 462g flour = almost 84% hydration. It is a VERY slack dough. Next time I'll try weighing the ingredients, now that I've found those notes again.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The NY Times recipe calls for 3 cups all purpose flour and 1 5/8 cups of water.

 

The KAF ingredient weight chart says a cup of all purpose flour is 120g.  Three cups would be 360g.  For the water, 1 5/8 cup, according to the Windows calculator, is 384.4559 ml, or approximately 384g.  To calculate percent hydration divide the water weight by the flour weight times 100: 384/360 x 100 = 107% hydration.

 

I don't see any weight conversions on Bittman's recipe.  However if he gets 345g water out of 1 5/8 cup I would seriously suspect his scale.  (But this from the woman who just added half the proper amount of sugar to her batch of cookies, so take it with a grain of salt.)

 

[Smithy]

4 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

The NY Times recipe calls for 3 cups all purpose flour and 1 5/8 cups of water.

 

The KAF ingredient weight chart says a cup of all purpose flour is 120g.  Three cups would be 360g.  For the water, 1 5/8 cup, according to the Windows calculator, is 384.4559 ml, or approximately 384g.  To calculate percent hydration divide the water weight by the flour weight times 100: 384/360 x 100 = 107% hydration.

 

I don't see any weight conversions on Bittman's recipe.  However if he gets 345g water out of 1 5/8 cup I would seriously suspect his scale.  (But this from the woman who just added half the proper amount of sugar to her batch of cookies, so take it with a grain of salt.)

 

 

In the original NYTimes article, they did indeed use volumetric measurements. The Bittman weights came from a later article,which was quoted about 2 years ago in the comments (notes) on the original article that we're discussing. He may have tweaked the recipe by then. I was quoting his numbers as the basis for the 80% ratio.

 

My numbers came from my scale. My 3 cups of flour weighed 462g, according to my scale, which is closer to his 430g than to your calculated 360g. The 1-5/8 c water weighed 388g, which is a pretty close agreement with your calculated 384.4, especially considering the markings on my beaker. There could easily be a 4ml error.

 

Does the KA Flour calculator assume sifted flour? I didn't sift mine. Bittman was silent on the topic in the original article. I suspect his was also unsifted.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Smithy
Attempts at clarity (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The KAF chart that gives the weight of a cup of all purpose flour as 120g does not say how the flour was measured.  However in the KAF measurement standards they say to use the spoon and sweep method if you don't have a scale.  In contrast Rose Levy Beranbaum gives the weight of a lightly spooned cup of all purpose flour as 121g.

 

[Smithy]

40 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

The KAF chart that gives the weight of a cup of all purpose flour as 120g does not say how the flour was measured.  However in the KAF measurement standards they say to use the spoon and sweep method if you don't have a scale.  In contrast Rose Levy Beranbaum gives the weight of a lightly spooned cup of all purpose flour as 121g.

 

 

I just dug my 1-cup flour scoop into the canister, swept the top level, and dumped. Definitely a different method, and an excellent example of why weight measurements are better.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

 

I just dug my 1-cup flour scoop into the canister, swept the top level, and dumped. Definitely a different method, and an excellent example of why weight measurements are better.  

 

By the dip and sweep method Rose says a cup of all purpose flour is 145g.

 

[Smithy]

3 hours ago, Smithy said:

...My 3 cups of flour weighed 462g, according to my scale, which is closer to his 430g than to your calculated 360g. <snip>

 

Does the KA Flour calculator assume sifted flour? I didn't sift mine. Bittman was silent on the topic in the original article. I suspect his was also unsifted.

 

 

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

The KAF chart that gives the weight of a cup of all purpose flour as 120g does not say how the flour was measured.  However in the KAF measurement standards they say to use the spoon and sweep method if you don't have a scale.  In contrast Rose Levy Beranbaum gives the weight of a lightly spooned cup of all purpose flour as 121g.

 

 

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

 

I just dug my 1-cup flour scoop into the canister, swept the top level, and dumped. Definitely a different method, and an excellent example of why weight measurements are better.  

 

17 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

By the dip and sweep method Rose says a cup of all purpose flour is 145g.

 

 

Q.E.D.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I realize the NY Times keeps a tight budget and lays off proofreaders and copy editors...but would it have killed Bittman to buy a scale?

 

[weinoo]

The age old argument...how much does a cup of flour weigh?

 

I'm trying to restart my bread baking "skills," and doing a little of this, a little of that, afraid I'm gonna hurt myself even just by mixing doughs by hand...it sucks getting old.

[Ann_T]

@Kerry Beal, is Hubby, not a big sourdough fan?  I can understand that.  I'm not either.   I only make sourdough because both Moe and Matt like it.  

Lately, I've been just tossing the discard into a batch of yeast dough, when I feed the starter.  That way I get just a slight hint of sourdough flavour, that just enhances the bread

rather than making the sourdough flavour really pronounced. 

 

@Chris Hennes, beautiful loaf.   Love the crumb with the seeds throughout.  I need to try adding some seeds to my breads. 

 

@Smithy, the no knead turned out well.  You even have some shine on the crumb.

 

Today's bake.

750g batch at 75%.   In the fridge for 19 hours.  Left of the counter for three hours to warm up and continue rising. 

Baked in the CSO for the steam and then transferred to the Oster to finish.  

 

 

[heidih]

General no-knead proportions,  Free form on parchment on heavy sheet pan. 100% white whole wheat. Little higher hydration as it looks closer to batter than typical dough. Saw my standard here long ago in a cambro - can not find. Excellent crumb and flavor. I like it toasted in a toaster oven  Could live on it. Freezes well

[Kim Shook]

New at the no-knead thing.  I didn't want to risk my Le Crueset pots (I'm putting them up for sale soon), so I Googled no-knead/no pot methods.  Found one the looked do-able for making baguettes.  Started some Tuesday morning.  Today, it came out of the fridge like this:

 

I formed the baguettes and put them in this French bread pan that was sprayed with Pam and dusted with cornmeal to rise for 45 minutes while the oven heated to 475F:

I snipped them and put boiling water in a pan on the bottom rack of the oven.

 

The last few minutes, I took them off the pan and put them on a pizza stone.  Out of the oven:

 

Nice color and good thump, but what’s that:

This ugly split happened on both loaves.  Good texture and crumb, I think:

 

Went well with butter:

 😁  BTW -  I'm planning to freeze one loaf.  What the the best way to store the other?  

[Smithy]

1 hour ago, Kim Shook said:

 😁  BTW -  I'm planning to freeze one loaf.  What the the best way to store the other? 

 

Way to go, Kim! What great-looking loaves! I think the split can be controlled with strategic cuts along the top (see @Ann_T's typical loaves) but I don't know whether that's contraindicated in the no-knead method.

 

I typically store my loaves in a plastic bag...but be warned, that will soften the crust. My other half prefers a soft crust, so I usually go that route. Storing the loaf in a paper bag, or even cut side down on a breadboard (if you have room - I don't) will allow the crust to stay hard. In my experience it will also dry out more quickly that way. That's why we learn about things to do with stale bread: bread crumbs, croutons, panzanellas and panades, for example. 

 

Of course, the best thing is simply to eat it quickly. Before it has time to dry out.  

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Wow!  Thanks, Kim.   I own that perforated pan.   Will try this next bake.    Nice instructions, too.

[Kim Shook]

9 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Wow!  Thanks, Kim.   I own that perforated pan.   Will try this next bake.    Nice instructions, too.

You're welcome!  I am ashamed to say that I've owned that pan for probably 10 years and this was the first time I've used it.  Considering how loose the dough is, I thought it was the perfect tool.  

 

Made toast with it this morning:

The two on the left were buttered after toasting and the two on the right before.  I think I like before better.  I wish I could get them a bit darker.  The problem is the edges of the crust darken and burn way before the surface of the bread gets dark enough to qualify as toast!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, Kim Shook said:

The two on the left were buttered after toasting and the two on the right before.  I think I like before better.  I wish I could get them a bit darker.  The problem is the edges of the crust darken and burn way before the surface of the bread gets dark enough to qualify as toast!

 

Broiler or frying pan or...