Sous vide for a newbie?

[Chris Hennes]

12 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

I don't think you are dense!  Over in the forum upgrade thread, someone asked about this and Chris responded that he had reported the bug.  Sounds like there hasn't been any resolution yet.

 

Edited to add that in reading over that earlier query, I'm not sure if it's the same issue you've noted or not. Or maybe I'm dense, too!  

 

I'm working with Invision to make sure that we catch this everywhere it happened, the fix should be applied soon.

[Shelby]

17 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

I don't think you are dense!  Over in the forum upgrade thread, someone asked about this and Chris responded that he had reported the bug.  Sounds like there hasn't been any resolution yet.

 

Edited to add that in reading over that earlier query, I'm not sure if it's the same issue you've noted or not. Or maybe I'm dense, too!  

No, you hit the nail on the head   thank you for making me feel un-dense.

[Suzee]

I have concerns about cooking in plastic bags, would appreciate hearing your thoughts...thanks!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

4 hours ago, Suzee said:

I have concerns about cooking in plastic bags, would appreciate hearing your thoughts...thanks!

 

Heath concerns or structural concerns?  Personally I would not worry about either as long as the bag was used within its intended temperature range.  For example don't use a normal sous vide bag in a hot oven or pressure cooker.

 

Sous vide bags may vary in quality.  Or, for all I know, every the sous vide bag in the world is produced in one giant factory.  However so far I have been using only bags from Polyscience and have found them more than satisfactory.

 

[blue_dolphin]

I just wanted to thank @KitchenQueen for starting this thread and all the other posters for contributing as it encouraged me to pull out the Anova I got almost a year ago and play with it, which has been fun.  

  

I know there is a ton of information here on eG, but trying to sort it all out was a bit overwhelming so I did appreciate this suggestion:

On January 1, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Dave the Cook said:

...if you're not interested in a lot of byplay and theorizing and just want to jump in with some times and temps, ChefSteps just released a week-long intro-to-sous-vide set of recipes and techniques....

 

Based on that, I went to the store and picked up some salmon, chicken breasts and pork chops to play with.  The salmon came out beautifully.  I butterflied the chicken breast and made chicken cordon bleu yesterday and the pork chops are on deck for today.  I noticed that Kenji has a "How to Get Started With Sous Vide Cooking" piece over on Serious Eats and I plan to try the steak and carrots as part of my curriculum while I do more reading and research on the threads here.

 

Why did I have it sitting around for a year?  Well I ordered it, thinking it would be a good way for me (a recovering vegetarian) to learn to cook things like those mentioned for my mother who was coming to live with me and was accustomed to more animal-protein-centric meals.  By the time it arrived, things had changed and I just put it away, thinking to gift it to my brother at some point.  I may still pack it up and ship it off to him but I'll play with it a bit more.   If I keep it, I think I would probably use it most often for fish, but we'll see. 

 

Anyway, thanks for the nudge!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by blue_dolphin (log)

[haresfur]

6 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

I just wanted to thank @KitchenQueen for starting this thread and all the other posters for contributing as it encouraged me to pull out the Anova I got almost a year ago and play with it, which has been fun.  

  

I know there is a ton of information here on eG, but trying to sort it all out was a bit overwhelming so I did appreciate this suggestion:

 

Based on that, I went to the store and picked up some salmon, chicken breasts and pork chops to play with.  The salmon came out beautifully.  I butterflied the chicken breast and made chicken cordon bleu yesterday and the pork chops are on deck for today.  I noticed that Kenji has a "How to Get Started With Sous Vide Cooking" piece over on Serious Eats and I plan to try the steak and carrots as part of my curriculum while I do more reading and research on the threads here.

 

Why did I have it sitting around for a year?  Well I ordered it, thinking it would be a good way for me (a recovering vegetarian) to learn to cook things like those mentioned for my mother who was coming to live with me and was accustomed to more animal-protein-centric meals.  By the time it arrived, things had changed and I just put it away, thinking to gift it to my brother at some point.  I may still pack it up and ship it off to him but I'll play with it a bit more.   If I keep it, I think I would probably use it most often for fish, but we'll see. 

 

Anyway, thanks for the nudge!

 

 

 

 

 

It can be a pain sorting out all the advice on times and temperatures. The precision means that you can fuss a lot dialing in your results but that doesn't mean you have to worry about it any more than you do with other cooking methods.

 

I'll be a heretic and say that for meat (not fish or veg) you won't go too far wrong adjusting out from 60 C for 1 hour for tender meat and 2 days for tough. Ok for steak you might want to drop the temperature down to somewhere between 55 and 58 but cook one and it will work. For a thin steak 1 hour is longer than you need but won't hurt. For a fat roast you want to go longer but just take a guess and she'll be right. Chicken breast I sometimes like a couple of degrees lower and sometimes a couple of degrees higher. Pork maybe a degree or two lower but no big deal.

 

Relax, don't worry.

[weedy]

13 hours ago, Suzee said:

I have concerns about cooking in plastic bags, would appreciate hearing your thoughts...thanks!

 

 

 

http://modernistcuisine.com/2013/03/is-it-safe-cook-plastic/

 

 

"According to the latest research, the safest plastics for use with food are high-density polyethylene, low-density polyethylene, and polypropylene. Virtually all sous vide bags are made from these plastics, as are most brand-name food storage bags and plastic wraps such as Saran wrap. Polyethylene is widely used in containers for biology and chemistry labs, and it has been studied extensively. It is safe."

[Shelby]

Yes, thank you @KitchenQueen for starting this topic and letting me crash it

 

Ok, so, I have a pork tenderloin that is 2 lbs. (it's actually 2 that were in the package).   I've seasoned and vac. packed them yesterday.  I've gotten some help from Kayb and I don't wanna bug her again lol.  So, I've seen every where from an 40 mins to an hour to 3 hours.....mostly I've read to use a temp of 140.  Can I leave it in there for 3 hours?  I want a nice, flavorful, tender loin.  Also, I know I've already sealed them up, but what about stuffing them?  Can I do that?  Like some onions, mushrooms and spinach and then sous vide?  I will take it out and sear it after it's done.

[blue_dolphin]

Up above, PedroG provided a link to a Douglas Baldwin page that has a lot of useful tables for cooking times based on thickness.  It's even broken down by whether it's a slab, cylinder or sphere. So you can measure your hunk-o-meat and gauge the right cooking time.

I'm sure you can stuff it if you would like.  I did that with the chicken breast I tried the other day and it worked fine.  

 

Sort of comical that I would be answering a question here!

[IndyRob]

1 hour ago, Shelby said:

Can I leave it in there for 3 hours?

 

I don't think I would.  I'm not an expert and don't know what the maximum time might be, but according to Thomas Keller (in Under Pressure), it *is* possible to overcook meat sous vide.  It can still be pink and yet overcooked.  I believe I've experienced this with my own beef tenderloin.

 

[KennethT]

Depending on thickness, you may HAVE to leave it in there for 3 hours!

 

Like blue_dolphin said, the most important thing to know about cooking sous vide is that the time for the middle (the core) to get up to temperature is dependent on the thickness and shape, not on the weight.

 

Personally, for pork tenderloin, I like to cook it to about 135-138 or so to keep it nice and pink.  I would get it all sealed up, then measure the thickness at the thickest part as best you can.  If you're unsure of the exact measurement, add about 1/8" (0.125) to whatever you think for an additional safety factor.  When cooking pork, I usually cook to pasteurization, so I would use those tables... you can definitely pasteurize at 135-138F. 

 

I would also set the water bath temperature to 2 degrees F higher than your desired target temperature, otherwise, it will take a ridiculously long time to go those last couple of degrees.

 

For pork tenderloin, you can let it sit a bit longer than the calculated time, but I wouldn't let it sit for 3 hours extra - it won't "overcook", but what will happen is that it will lose juices (they will wind up in the bag and make nice drippings for a sauce) and be drier than it should be.

[kayb]

Bother me any time you want. I'll be anxious to hear your results. I have cooked only one tenderloin SV, usually choosing to go with a bigger loin roast. I did a sous vide tenderloin for an hour and a half, then stuffed it inside a fresh pineapple, wrapped it in bacon and slapped it on the grill. Badly overcooked as far as texture goes. I understand it's a chemical in the pineapple that does that.

[KennethT]

@ShelbyI just reread your post, and I think, next time, it would be better (if possible) not to season that far in advance.  I have found that it results in the meat having a slightly 'cured' texture.  Lately, I don't season anything I cook SV in advance - I season it after it has finished cooking, when I take it out of the bag, but before final searing.  The only exception to that is when I cook salmon filet (or other fish), which usually only takes about 30 minutes or so to come to temperature (I use a bath temp of 115F and shoot for a core temp of 102F - I use @vengroff's Sous Vide Dash app that (hopefully) is still in the the app store - it is definitely worth the price!

[IndyRob]

12 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Depending on thickness, you may HAVE to leave it in there for 3 hours!

 

 

Are you thinking pork loin instead of tenderloin?  The tenderloin is generally quite small (1lb each in this case, it would appear).  Pork loins can be huge (much, much larger than a beef tenderloin).

[KennethT]

@IndyRobYeah, when I first read the post, I mentally skipped over the 'tenderloin' part, which was where that first sentence came from.... but, as you know, the theory is still valid for cooking anything SV - I really wanted to stress to SV newcomers that the cooking time is based on thickness, rather than weight as is typically used in cooking in an oven (when I was younger, I remember hearing instructions for cooking a turkey 18 minutes per pound or something like that).  I think that is the biggest difference in concepts to grasp - before SV, you never had to measure the thickness of something!

 

ETA: Back when I had more time to cook, I used to do SV pork tenderloin a lot... my go to was to puree a can of chipotle in adobo, marinate the tenderloin in that and cook SV to like 135F.  If memory serves, a single tenderloin took about an hour or so for pasteurization.

Edited January 8, 2016 by KennethT
ETA (log)

[Shelby]

Thank you all for replying so quickly!

 

So, it's a cold, rainy day and I'm sluggish so forgive me.

 

The way I vac. packed these t-loins I placed them together so it's like one thicker loin.  I figure it's about 1 1/2" at it's thickest point.  Thus, according to the chart that BlueDolphin nicely gave us it should cook for around 2 1/2 hours....I'm saying it's more slab-shaped than cylinder.....

 

I hope once I gain some confidence in this that it doesn't seem so difficult. 

 

The day I got this new toy I had planned on shrimp cocktail as part of dinner so I did them using the Gourmia.  I know, I know, silly to do that for shrimp, but I wanted to play with my new toy.  I vac. packed them and did them at 149 for like 7 mins.  I'll say this, they were the most tender shrimp I've ever made.  So, at least my first try wasn't a failure lol.

 

Here's the shrimp, happily taking a sauna

 

 

And, so ok, I've just put the pork in.

 

 

 

Ronnie is out deer hunting so hopefully when he gets home there will be a good piece of pork waiting  

 

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Shelby (log)

[KennethT]

I definitely don't think it's silly to SV shrimp - I used to do it all the time - best shrimp ever!  It's especially convenient if you're making a bunch for a party... and easy cleanup!

 

ETA - I just reread Douglas Baldwin's guide (I haven't read it in a long time) - if you packed the tenderloins individually (so they're more cylinder than slab), you can cut the heating time in half!

Edited January 8, 2016 by KennethT
ETA (log)

[Shelby]

OH!  

 

Another question. 

 

After meat is done in the water, do you rest it before searing?  I assume it's good to rest it after searing?

[Chris Hennes]

No, with sous vide there is no point in resting, the meat is already at a uniform temperature throughout. Resting is counterproductive.

[IndyRob]

I wouldn't rest it so much as let it cool a bit.  In the traditional sense, a rest shouldn't be necessary.  But you spent a long time a long time getting it to the perfect temp.  Don't take it over the optimum temp while searing.

[Shelby]

7 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

No, with sous vide there is no point in resting, the meat is already at a uniform temperature throughout. Resting is counterproductive.

Glad I asked.  

 

Somewhere around google land someone made a comment that a beef tenderloin looked like it should have rested more after SVing.  

 

So much conflicting information.  

 

I know here I will get the correct answers.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Shelby said:

OH!  

 

Another question. 

 

After meat is done in the water, do you rest it before searing?  I assume it's good to rest it after searing?

 

I'd say chill thoroughly in an ice bath before searing.  This is what I do.

 

 

Edit:  and then after the ice bath unbag the chiiled meat, dry the meat off completely with paper towels.  Then salt, and let the meat rest for an hour for the salt to absorb.  Finally, then sear.

 

I have found no use for the bag juices.  I pitch them.

Edited January 9, 2016 by JoNorvelleWalker
afterthought (log)

[gfweb]

7 hours ago, Shelby said:

Yes, thank you @KitchenQueen for starting this topic and letting me crash it

 

Ok, so, I have a pork tenderloin that is 2 lbs. (it's actually 2 that were in the package).   I've seasoned and vac. packed them yesterday.  I've gotten some help from Kayb and I don't wanna bug her again lol.  So, I've seen every where from an 40 mins to an hour to 3 hours.....mostly I've read to use a temp of 140.  Can I leave it in there for 3 hours?  I want a nice, flavorful, tender loin.  Also, I know I've already sealed them up, but what about stuffing them?  Can I do that?  Like some onions, mushrooms and spinach and then sous vide?  I will take it out and sear it after it's done.

Pork tenderloin doesn't benefit from sous vide as much as loin or butt since it it tender to start with. I usually cook it the old fashioned way...sear then a 350 F oven till 125 F in the center. Works well with stuffed tenderloin too. 

 

If you do cook it sv, be careful with precook salting. It can get a cured consistency. I'd cook it to 130 or so.  But that's just me. 

 

 

 

[blue_dolphin]

In solidarity with Shelby, I also cooked my first sous vide pork - a boneless loin chop.  It was 1 inch thick so I cooked at 140F for 1.5 hrs. I seared the top and bottom both before and after cooking per the Chefsteps recipe but could have done a better job with the fatty edge. The meat was a little pinker than it looks in the picture and I might try a lower temp next time but I have no problems with an experiment as tasty as this one.

 

Served with warm apple onion relish,  crisped up leftover baked potatoes and a few cubes of pickled butternut squash.

Edited January 9, 2016 by blue_dolphin
To fix photo (log)

[Chris Hennes]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I'd say chill thoroughly in an ice bath before searing.  This is what I do.

 

 

Edit:  and then after the ice bath unbag the chiiled meat, dry the meat off completely with paper towels.  Then salt, and let the meat rest for an hour for the salt to absorb.  Finally, then sear.

 

I have found no use for the bag juices.  I pitch them.

 

I am going to categorically disagree with all elements of this post. A properly-done sear only affects the outermost layer of the meat, which you are trying to "overcook" in some sense. If you chill it then you have to reheat it, which ruins the crust. And if you didn't salt before sous vide, salt as you plate, no need for the meat to absorb the salt at all. And I have successfully used bag juices to produce a

sauce when searing in a pan. Deglaze

with red wine and those juices, then monte a beurre, it's excellent, IMO.