Sous vide Chicken Stock with no added water?

[torolover]

Ivan Ramen in his book insists Chicken Stock taste best when chicken is cooked no higher then 176F for 5 hours.

 

This got me thinking, how about putting a chopped up chicken into a bag with no water, and sous vide at 176F for 5 hours?

 

The bag will end up having only chicken juice and the scum can easily be strained.

 

This juice should be very potent, but can easily be adjusted adding more water or vegetable stock.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[rotuts]

interesting.  try it.  chop up the bones too.

 

let us know.

[Okanagancook]

If you were to chop it up, any thoughts about blanching the meat and bones first to get rid of all those nasty bits.  Just let it dry a little before packaging if you want no water otherwise chuck it in the bag and go for.  Or you could use ground chicken meat?

 

I will be very interested to see what it turns out like.  I love having concoctions like that in the freezer.

[Paul Bacino]

I might add just a 1/4 C of water..  might help later in separating the fat layer.. later?

 

Interested to see how it goes.  I have done the pressure cooker with ..little to no water.

[rotuts]

pour the results in a clean glass jar w a tight lid, then invert.  chill

 

chilling on the top of the inverted jar is the fat.   when fully chilled the stock will be on the actual top of the jar  and easy to pour off.

 

I think I saw that trick here vis Kerry Beal.

Edited March 14, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Martin Fisher]

I blanch the bones, etc., and rinse (not cut-up for white stock) pack tightly in a canning jar, cover with water and seal. 

Submerge in the water bath.....

[btbyrd]

If you're just using meat, the result of this technique would be jus, not stock. But it works. The Modernist Cuisine folks have a recipe for beef jus made this way. Centrifuge optional.

[rotuts]

I found my old pic of the 'KerryBeal" :

 

 

the fat is on top in this pic, the inverted jar

 

cool, refrig etc.

 

revert, pour off

 

the "KerryBeal"

Edited March 14, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Paul Bacino]

RT.. Nice

 

For some reason..I prefer larger orifices

 

[rotuts]

it was priced right : free !  about to be recycled !

[dcarch]

I do this all the time to make what I called "Super Stock".

 

With beef, or chicken or pork, just use pressure cooker to pressure steam the bones and meat. At the end, you will get a lot of pure concentrated stock.

 

The difference is at 176F, you get very little juice, vs. at pressure cooker temperature.

 

After the "Super Stock", then I add water to make the second ba6tch of regular stock. All takes a couple of hours.

 

dcarch

[torolover]

The reason don't want to use the pressure cooker, is because Ivan Orkin, and other japanese chefs insist chicken stock taste better at 176F and not at higher temperatures.

 

I'll have to do some taste tests..

[IndyRob]

I think that more than once I've read of water being a 'solvent'.  This struck me as odd, but if true you might be shooting yourself in the foot by foregoing the water given the fact that the goal is to get the flavor out of the meat and into the liquid..

[nickrey]

The reason don't want to use the pressure cooker, is because Ivan Orkin, and other japanese chefs insist chicken stock taste better at 176F and not at higher temperatures.

 

I'll have to do some taste tests..

Cooking under pressure increases the boiling point of water. Thus pressure cookers can be used to take food to higher temperatures without the destructive effects of boiling acting on the meat. This allows the meat to be cooked in a gentle environment but at higher temperatures which maximise extraction: the best of both worlds. I think some tests are definitely needed to ensure that the Japanese opinions are not just driven by tradition. 

[gfweb]

I think that more than once I've read of water being a 'solvent'.  This struck me as odd, but if true you might be shooting yourself in the foot by foregoing the water given the fact that the goal is to get the flavor out of the meat and into the liquid..

 

Water is a solvent in that things will dissolve in it. For example, water is the solvent and sugar is the solute.

 

A generation or two back referred to water as the Universal Solvent. Clearly incorrect as anything fatty won't dissolve in water; emulsifying is required.

 

A mixture of alcohol and water,  eg. vodka,  is closer to being a Universal Solvent.

[EnriqueB]

Cooking under pressure increases the boiling point of water. Thus pressure cookers can be used to take food to higher temperatures without the destructive effects of boiling acting on the meat. This allows the meat to be cooked in a gentle environment but at higher temperatures which maximise extraction: the best of both worlds. I think some tests are definitely needed to ensure that the Japanese opinions are not just driven by tradition. 

 

But the results are, simply, different. The same stock done at a lower temperature is much more clear and retains "fresher" aromas. With the pressure cooker it is darker, showing that Maillard reactions are starting to take place, and the aromas are different, more "cooked" ones. I have formally verified this with vegetable stock (here), not with chicken stock but I'm convinced the results are quite similar as I have tried both (though not side-by-side). Whether one is better than the other depends on personal preference, and the result one is searching for. I do prepare one or the other type depending on the dish.

[nickrey]

But the results are, simply, different. The same stock done at a lower temperature is much more clear and retains "fresher" aromas. With the pressure cooker it is darker, showing that Maillard reactions are starting to take place, and the aromas are different, more "cooked" ones. I have formally verified this with vegetable stock (here), not with chicken stock but I'm convinced the results are quite similar as I have tried both (though not side-by-side). Whether one is better than the other depends on personal preference, and the result one is searching for. I do prepare one or the other type depending on the dish.

Very interesting experiment, thank you for sharing it with us.