Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

e_monster

Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)

Recommended Posts

Has anyone done the retrograde starch mashed potatoes sous vide? I've always just done them with a pot and a thermometer, but it would be simpler to bag a bunch of potato slices and do them in the waterbath (at least the first cook, but probably both).

Do you think there would be an issue with them being bagged vs. in the water? Is that a good or bad thing?

I used to do it quite a bit - until I got out of my potato puree phase.... I think I wrote about it about 40 pages ago... haha... I sliced the potatoes about 3/8" thick, bagged, and into the bath - I think I let mine go for about an hour, then cooled. I did the second cook in barely simmering water. The results came out pretty good - but there were always a few granules that never cooked through, so I always had to run the puree through a tamis to get rid of the grittyness. The basic procedure was:

1) retrograde starches/cool

2) simmer until cooked through

3) run through ricer

4) dry potatoes in skillet over low heat

5) add butter

6) run through tamis

7) add starchy potato water to adjust consistency

8) season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That primer article is golden! I have one question: after the first cook and retrograde cool down, can I keep the potatoes in the fridge overnight then bring them up to temperature to make the mash the next day? I have very little experience par cooking anything.

note: sorry, this post is in the wrong thread but I can't find a way to move it or delete it.


Edited by Big Mike (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The results came out pretty good - but there were always a few granules that never cooked through, so I always had to run the puree through a tamis to get rid of the grittyness.

My problem exactly -- and I have no tamis, nor do I want to drag out the chinois.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have done duck confit before, and don't remember if I left the skin on the legs...Getting ready to confit the legs from a goose in the next few days, using the SV method in a bag...I did a bunch of searching and can't find anything about

skin on, or off,,,Wonder What the concensus is, for skin on, or skin off??

Any direction would be appreciated....

Bud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep the skin on for all manners of confit - the connective tissue in the skin really breaks down well, which makes for REALLY crispy skin afterwards with a post SV fry or high temp baking between sheet pans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK!!!! Thanks guys...That will make it ....I have this thawing domestic goose that we are going to eat the breast from, tomorrow, and then, I am going to Confit the legs(might even do the wings) and then will have a whole lot of goose fat for the freezer,after the bit I use for the confit....

THANKS again for the Direction!!!!

Bud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the detailed reply nathanm -this is exactly what I was looking for!

I had thought that by curing the trout first it would significantly improve the safety issue. Quite sobering to read your response on this...

I will definitely take your advice from this point and cook to order. It seems a few more trials are in order; will also try at 38C.

You're also correct re the temperature of the fish but it is served as a cold starter. It was only meant to bring the fish to room temperature.

Thanks again.

Curing isn't enough by itself, especially at the level of curing salts you are using. Again, you could do it without incident for a while, but if you got some contamination in the system (including cross contamination from something else), then it would be problematic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone done the retrograde starch mashed potatoes sous vide? I've always just done them with a pot and a thermometer, but it would be simpler to bag a bunch of potato slices and do them in the waterbath (at least the first cook, but probably both).

Do you think there would be an issue with them being bagged vs. in the water? Is that a good or bad thing?

As others have noted, it works well. We have recipes for potato puree in the book that use this approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Monday we will be posting a recipe for turkey wings to the Modernist Cuisine blog for turkey wings cooked sous vide - you cure them with salt first (as for duck confit) then you cook them 12 hours at 58C/137F for 12 hours.

It's up. Nathan, why 58C for the wings? I'm doing legs and thighs with duck fat SV and keep seeing temps up near 80C. Is the latter more confit and the former less so?

It's the temperature we prefered after doing tests.

The temperature and time you use depends on the result you want. If you want to mimic conventional duck confit then 80C/176F for 8-12 hours is pretty much comparable to most traditional recipes - same temp, same time, and pretty much the same result.

Or you can go to lower temperature. In this case we wanted low temp but we wanted some tenderization, and the combination of 58C for 12 hours was our preference.

Turkey thighs can be done in a similar manner. Every temperature and time will give a somewhat different result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As none of the usual suspects has answered, I'll offer the shrimp formula I was given by a modernist chef: 2 hours at 123°F/50.5°C. For service, he grilled them for 30 seconds per side, but said that was just to warm them up. 50°C seems low to me, but I have to say the shrimp were perfect.

THe prefered time and temperature will depend a lot on the specific shrimp you use. My favorite for most really high quality shrimp is 45C/113F for just long enough to cook through - which is typically 20 min for spot prawns. The 2 hour recipe above sounds a bit long to me.

Note that this is NOT pasteurizing combination, so you should use maximum hygiene and treat as you would for sushi.

To pasteurize, 55C/130F for ~2 hours should work fine, or 30 min at 60C with (to my taste) some loss of quality on the texture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boned and cured overnight the skin-on turkey thighs and legs. Rinsed them off and SVed them with duck fat last night at 80C. After 10h, picked them apart, removed the tendons, and have the meat cooling in the fridge in strained bag liquid. It is astoundingly good, confit in texture and taste, very rich and supple.

BTW, this method for crisping skin works like a charm. I'll serve the rewarmed meat with the skin cracklin's for texture -- unless I eat them all first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Help for a newbie please:

Our fresh, non brined, 14 pound turkey prepared per Doug Baldwin's instructions, supplemented with duck fat and fresh herbs, yielded outstanding white meat. The dark meat came out a bit soft, for my taste, and the color of the dark meat had a grey tint. I do not believe Broiling or the torch would have helped as the dark meat was somewhat delicate, shall I say. Frying was out of the question for our guests. I don't know if the grey tint was from a "bleed" from the herbs (sage, thyme) or what. Almost like a film, whichI tried to rub away the best I could do. My first SV turkey. Any thoughts, or is this the way it is????

alanjesq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I just mentioned, the cure & SV method above worked very well for me.

I several of my vegetables in advance SV at 85C with butter, seasonings, etc., chilled them down and kept them in the fridge, then reheated in a 300F oven. Worked like a charm with carrots, Macomber turnips, and parsnips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm wanting to try the Alinea "Pork, Grapefruit, Sage, Honeycomb" but I have cubed pork shoulder only.

The recipe says to cook an intact 750g portion of pork shoulder at 180F for 5 hours. How would I adjust the cooking time for 1-2" cubes?

Thanks! =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I doing something wrong or is it just my tastes?

I picked up a sous vide magic and found an old big rice cooker and have made a handful of dishes using it including salmon, halibut, 48 hour short ribs, 24 hour hanger steak and this last week, 12 hour turkey confit with duck fat. Some of these dishes are considered on this board as transcendent experiences perfectly made for sous vide and yet other than the salmon (my personal favorite) and to a lesser extent, the halibut, I just haven't had a similar experience. The short ribs were good but I think I would have just preferred them braised. The hanger steak was perfectly medium rare and yet again, I think I would have preferred just using a very hot pan. The turkey confit was completely blah.

So am I doing something wrong? or is this just a matter of tastes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

eternal,

It depends. Odds are you aren't doing it wrong, per se, but there are a few steps that you could take that might improve things.

Are you searing post sous vide? Might be difficult for fish, I understand, but did you sear the hangar steak after you sous vide it?

I find that people who don't like sous vide seem to have the most trouble with the texture.

It could also be your seasoning...you don't want to go crazy but salt in the bad definitely helps. A little fleur de sel or similar salt after slicing can go a long way, as can herbs/garlic/aromats in the bag during cooking, just be careful not to overdo it as the vacuum makes the flavors quite strong.

You shouldn't feel like you are doing it wrong if you don't love it. Trying in some way to add texture to the dish and making sure seasoning is up to par are two areas I would start. Searing things, especially beef, when they come out of the bag is almost essential. Just be sure to do it hot and fast and not to overcook obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More information would be helpful, too. For example, what did you do with that turkey confit? Did you cure it first? Use duck fat? Temps? Etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I doing something wrong or is it just my tastes?

Perhaps you're doing nothing wrong and some of the products are just not to your taste. As I'm pretty sure I said a long time ago, I too find a "real" braise to be just perfect for my taste. And that hot pan for a steak - works fine for me as well.

It also doesn't mean that there aren't great reasons to sous vide as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the steak and ribs, I used either a butane torch or a hot pan to give it a crust.

For the turkey confit, I cured it for 5 hours or so in salt, pepper and brine, then washed off most of the cure and packed it away with a stick or two of thyme and a couple tablespoons of duck fat and cooked it at 176 degrees for 12 hours. Then I chilled it in an ice bath, removed the bags and removed some of the cartilage and then put it in the fridge until service. At which point I threw it into a 420 degree oven and then the broiler to crisp up the skin. It was fine, but almost dry, if you can believe that. I should note that I was working with a heritage turkey from a local farm, so maybe there was also less fat in general in the bird. And maybe I'm also changing too many variables here - perhaps the flavor of the heritage bird itself is also part of the problem as this is the first heritage bird I've cooked with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And to be clear, I'm not saying sous vide is a bad way to cook. I've had some wonderful meals cooked by others using sous vide and I think salmon is pretty awesome cooked sous vide. But I'm failing to have some of these "transcendent" experiences with short ribs, skirt steaks etc and wondering why I tend to find foods cooked sous vide a touch...bland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the turkey confit, I cured it for 5 hours or so in salt, pepper and brine, then washed off most of the cure and packed it away with a stick or two of thyme and a couple tablespoons of duck fat and cooked it at 176 degrees for 12 hours. Then I chilled it in an ice bath, removed the bags and removed some of the cartilage and then put it in the fridge until service. At which point I threw it into a 420 degree oven and then the broiler to crisp up the skin. It was fine, but almost dry, if you can believe that.

I sure can: if it spent more than couple of minutes in that oven/broiler, it probably got well above the 176F at which you cooked it -- at which point you lost the benefits of the SV.

I'd urge you to try it again, crisp the skin off the meat itself, and serve it out of the bag, or perhaps brought to 160-70F after chilling. SV is a technique that requires a different set of tolerances and approaches than other methods, and with practice I'll bet you'll find a few things that for you are unmatched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I doing something wrong or is it just my tastes?

I picked up a sous vide magic and found an old big rice cooker and have made a handful of dishes using it including salmon, halibut, 48 hour short ribs, 24 hour hanger steak and this last week, 12 hour turkey confit with duck fat. Some of these dishes are considered on this board as transcendent experiences perfectly made for sous vide and yet other than the salmon (my personal favorite) and to a lesser extent, the halibut, I just haven't had a similar experience. The short ribs were good but I think I would have just preferred them braised. The hanger steak was perfectly medium rare and yet again, I think I would have preferred just using a very hot pan. The turkey confit was completely blah.

So am I doing something wrong? or is this just a matter of tastes?

I think that when we all start to experiment with SV cooking we think we are going to use it for everything and that it will/should be a miracle maker in the kitchen. But really, when you think about it, food cooked in this manner is only as good as the cook creating it and the ingredients they use. A chef friend of mine says "try using the stove." SV is just another method in our arsenal and it is not right for everything. Personally, I would never cook a hangar steak SV - they are naturally juicy and delicious and,from a high quality cow, it should be very well marbled and quite tender. On the other hand, I have to agree with others here that SV cooked short ribs are a culinary revelation. But this is true only if one chooses the temp correctly, trims the meat really well and uses seasonings that lift and enhance the natural flavor of the meat. I am sure I am not saying anything that is original here. To me, the greatest benefit of SV cooking is seen with tougher, "cheaper" cuts of meat. But that having been said, it is still very important (and makes a HUGE difference) to use high quality product. Perhaps the word "cheaper" should be abandoned for "well exercised" or just say tougher and leave it at that. I only use grass-fed, pastured, all natural meats and poultry which I buy direct from the farmer. As for fish, I cannot say - I have yet to find SV cooked fish that I prefer, unless it is fish that is best poached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the turkey confit, I cured it for 5 hours or so in salt, pepper and brine, then washed off most of the cure and packed it away with a stick or two of thyme and a couple tablespoons of duck fat and cooked it at 176 degrees for 12 hours. Then I chilled it in an ice bath, removed the bags and removed some of the cartilage and then put it in the fridge until service. At which point I threw it into a 420 degree oven and then the broiler to crisp up the skin. It was fine, but almost dry, if you can believe that.

I sure can: if it spent more than couple of minutes in that oven/broiler, it probably got well above the 176F at which you cooked it -- at which point you lost the benefits of the SV.

I'd urge you to try it again, crisp the skin off the meat itself, and serve it out of the bag, or perhaps brought to 160-70F after chilling. SV is a technique that requires a different set of tolerances and approaches than other methods, and with practice I'll bet you'll find a few things that for you are unmatched.

I am quite happy with sv'd turkey breast at 60C x 2.5 hrs. The breast never sees the oven, but the skin goes in to crisp up. Drippings from the skin and whatever comes out of the breast go into gravy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By gibbs
      With Modernist Cuisine I waited a couple of years and ended up with a copy from the 6th printing run the advantage of this was that all errors picked up in the erratta had been corrected in the print copy.  I am looking to get modernist bread soon and wondered if someone had purchased it recently to check or if someone knew of hand if they have printed any additional corrected runs 
    • By TdeV
      I'm thinking that one isn't supposed to add salt to meat which is about to be sous-vided. I have no idea from whence the idea came, nor whether it's correct.
       
      Also I'm thinking that raw onion is ok in the sous vide bag, but not raw garlic (because it imparts a harsh flavour).
       
      Either of these impressions have value?
    • By Fabio
      Last year I had dinner at Belcanto in Lisbon and one of the dishes featured a "tomato water snow" or "tomato water cloud" (translated from the original Portuguese: "Nuvem/neve de agua de tomate") that I'm trying to replicate without success. Imagine a thick and solid foam of tomato water that immediately liquefies when you put in your mouth. The cloud was atop smoked fish and olive oil was drizzled over it.
       
      I whipped a mixture of tomato water and albumin powder (2 tsp albumin, 2tbsp tomato water) along with a pinch of cream of tartar, getting to the stiff peaks point after some effort. Trying to dehidrate the foam even as low as 150F didn't work; the foam collapsed. I then tried the savory meringue approach with some sugar and salt. The result was indeed a meringue that tasted like tomato but completely different from what I had at Belcanto. What am I missing? I've attached a photo of the dish so you can see what the cloud looks like.
       
      Thanks!
       

    • By ProfessionalHobbit
      I had completely forgotten about our dinner there in December. 
       
      Anyone who is a serious eater here on eGullet needs to come here soon. Highly recommended. @MetsFan5 - here is one place you might love over Gary Danko. You too @rancho_gordo.
       
      I'll let the pix speak for themselves...
       

       

       
      Horchata - Koshihikari rice, almonds, black cardamom, cinnamon.
       

       
      Scallop chicharrón, scallop ceviche, crème fraîche.
       

       
      Jicama empanada, shiso, pumpkin, salmon roe.
       

       
      Smoked mushroom taco with pickled wild mushrooms.
       

       
      Dungeness crab tostada, sour orange segments, sour orange-habanero salsa, Castelfranco radicchio, tarragon.
       

       
      Pineapple guava sorbet
       

       
      Fuyu persimmon, habanero honey, tarragon
       

       
      Tasmanian trout ceviche, dashi, Granny Smith apple
       

       
      Aguachile, parsnip, red bell pepper
       

       

       
      Black bean tamales steamed in banana leaves, with salsa on the side
       

       
      Smoked squab broth, pomegranate seeds, cilantro flowers
       

       
      Tres frijoles with sturgeon caviar, shallots and edible gold leaf
       

       
      Black cod, salsa verde, green grapes
       

       
      Wagyu beef, pickled onion
       

       

       
      Smoked squab breast served with spiced cranberry sauce, quince simmered in cranberry juice, pickled Japanese turnips and charred scallion, and sourdough flour tortillas
       
      Yes, it's the same squab from which the broth was made.
       

       

       

       
      And now the desserts:
       

       
      Foie gras churro, with foie gras mousse, cinnamon sugar, served with hot milk chocolate infused with cinnamon, Lustau sherry and coffee.
       
      By the time I remembered to take a pic, I'd eaten half of the churro. Dunk the churro into the chocolate.
       

       
      Dulce de leche spooned atop pear sorbet with chunks of Asian pear, macadamia nut butter
       

       
      Pecan ice cream, candied pecans, shortbread cookie, apples, clarified butter
       
      The cookie was on top of the apples. Break the cookie and spoon everything over.
       

       
      Cherry extract digestif, vermouth, sweet Mexican lime
       
      We'll definitely return. I'm an instant fan.
       
      Prepaid tix were $230 per person, plus there were additional charges due to wine pairings. It's worth every cent you'll spend.
       
      Californios
      3115 22nd Street (South Van Ness)
      Mission District
       
    • By benjamin163
      Hello,
      I love cooking my pulses and beans and have used a pressure cooker, slow cooker and top stove to do so.
      However, the results often vary due to my carelessness.
      I enjoy the results of sous vide and wonder whether cooking beans and pulses sous vide would make them deliciously tender without falling apart and going mushy.
      I have looked up a few recipes but the temperatures vary enormously.
      I'm wondering if there's a more scientific approach. Like, at what temperature do the walls of a pulse break down without breaking apart? 
      And does the amount of water the pulses are steeped in matter?
      I'm gathering that pre-soaking is no longer the necessity it once seemed.
      So I'd love an understanding of the optimum temperature to get fluffy, unctuous beans without the mush.
      Any help or opinions greatly received.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×