Non-Stick Cooking Surfaces

[Darienne]

Never used them in the first place.  All our pans are heavy stainless steel with extra heavy bottoms, purchased at second-hand stores.  Mostly from Korea and Japan.  Dates them, doesn't it?

[Kerry Beal]

And here I was thinking you were a huge fan of non stick, having started al least 3 threads on them in the past year - including which non stick pan you should buy for someone at Christmas.  How about your thoughts on non stick here?

[Shel_B]

And here I was thinking you were a huge fan of non stick, having started al least 3 threads on them in the past year - including which non stick pan you should buy for someone at Christmas.  How about your thoughts on non stick here?

 

Things change ... new info about plastics and non-stick cookware and cooking experiences have come about.  And some of the info I got from the past threads have influenced my current thinking. I still like the Calphalon pan - which, as noted in my original post, I shall keep and use when appropriate.

[daveb]

what's the latest thinking on 'ceramic' pans?

 

Short version.  They suck.

[rotuts]

confused I am.

 

one either choses to use 'non-stick'  ---  fine

 

or not to use 'non-stick' --- fine

 

its this about health issues w non-stick ?

 

types and performance of non-stick ?

 

or some sort of personal manifesto about non-stick ?

 

[Shel_B]

confused I am.

 

one either choses to use 'non-stick'  ---  fine

 

or not to use 'non-stick' --- fine

 

its this about health issues w non-stick ?

 

types and performance of non-stick ?

 

or some sort of personal manifesto about non-stick ?

 

 

Health issues re: plastics, waste because non-stick has to be replaced frequently; yes, it's a personal manifesto in some sense of the word; and it's a curiosity to see how other people feel about non-stick cookware.

[daveb]

A slippery topic it is.... :cool:

[AlaMoi]

Teflon aka PTFE will out gas chemicals which can be fatal to birds, even in low concentrations.

unless your kitchen is sealed airtight and the size of a bird cage, the effect on humans is non-dramatic.

the respiratory system of birds is different than humans - it's a thing about animal classifications - as in human vs bird vs reptile, etc.

 

PFOA does not enter the life of the consumer in terms of cookware - PFOA does not "residual" in PTFE cookware except at the single digit parts per trillion level which testing labs generally label "noise."  PFOA is/was used in the manufacturing process and when sloppy environmental controls allowed it to escape into the environment it became clear is was a very long term persistent contaminate and caused human health/reproductive issues.  it's been phased out except in places like China.

 

residual PFOA is a much bigger problem in anything flame retardant or stain resistant.  including childrens' sleepwear.  odd isn't it - people go totally bonkers about PTFE in cookware and every night put their kids to bed in PFOA laced pj's.....

 

was it here....(?) some one mentioned PTFE is not a problem because cook tops cannot get so hot as to cause out gassing...?

that's highly inaccurate.  gas burners can produce 600'F plus temps - more than enough to degrade PTFE - in a empty pan in 2-3 minutes; electric tops have not issue producing the same temps but they are slower to heat up.

Edited June 26, 2015 by AlaMoi (log)

[weedy]

...it's been phased out except in places like China.

 

 

 

what places are "like China"?  <g>

[paulraphael]

Teflon aka PTFE will out gas chemicals which can be fatal to birds, even in low concentrations.

 

It's not even gasses; it's very small particulates that get airborne if you get a pan hot enough to destroy it and burn the coating off it.

 

You'll kill a bird just as handily by seasoning a cast iron pan or burning something on the stove. The real takeaway is, keep pet birds out of the kitchen.

 

There's some more info here.

 

FWIW, all non-stick pans are essentially the same. So-called ceramic pans just have particles embedded in the surface to give it some more abrasion resistance. But such pans will still be destroyed by high heat, and will still lose their non-stick qualities—slowly if you baby them, quickly if you don't.

 

None of these pans is dangerous for humans to cook with. If you read between the lines of that report (which is horrifically badly written) you'll see that most of the alarm is about the manufacture of PTFE products. Which is, of course, something to think about.

 

My advice to everyone is to own a single cheap-ass nonstick pan, and use it just for eggs and the few other things they make sense for.

[dcarch]

1,000,000,000,000   Teflon pans in use for many many years, yet people are living longer and longer.

 

You use lots more fat and oil to cook with regular pans, that will kill you quicker.

 

dcarch

[GlorifiedRice]

I love my new Oxo pans

[SylviaLovegren]

How does anyone use stainless pans for sauteeing and not have things stick like hell to them?  I have Revere ware pans (old ones) and some very expensive Cuisinart pans and whether I start with the pan hot or cold before the oil/grease goes in, everything sticks. 

[GlorifiedRice]

How does anyone use stainless pans for sauteeing and not have things stick like hell to them?  I have Revere ware pans (old ones) and some very expensive Cuisinart pans and whether I start with the pan hot or cold before the oil/grease goes in, everything sticks. 

 

Yes! and lets not talk about how hard it is to clean them in the dishwasher without PHOSPHATES.

 

The hell with that! Gimme my TEFLON!

[paulraphael]

How does anyone use stainless pans for sauteeing and not have things stick like hell to them?  I have Revere ware pans (old ones) and some very expensive Cuisinart pans and whether I start with the pan hot or cold before the oil/grease goes in, everything sticks. 

 

It's 100% about technique. If the pan is hot enough, the oil gets hot enough, and the food is dry when it goes in, it won't stick. Proteins will stick at first, before the browning reactions are complete, but that's normal. Don't touch anything at this point. If you pry proteins off the pan while they're still stuck, you'll have a mess. Wait until it releases easily before moving or flipping.

 

This works for everything. You can cook delicate fish with the skin on like this (but I'd suggest practicing first with something less sticky / delicate). 

 

One of the best techniques for sauteeing proteins is to make a pan sauce by deglazing. You get a delicious, easy sauce and clean the pan, all in one step. If you're not doing that, just throw water into the pan while it's still hot and scrape it with a spatula. The boiling hot water does most of the work. I haven't put a pan in the dishwasher ever.

[Porthos]

... If you're not doing that, just throw water into the pan while it's still hot and scrape it with a spatula. The boiling hot water does most of the work.

 

I do put my pans in the dishwasher, but I do this first. Except my CI,of course CI NEVER goes into a dishwasher. The CI gets a little bit of water brought to the boil, kill the heat, wait a minute or so, clean out with paper towels. A quick rinse, wipe with the towel of your choice and then heat enough to evaporate the leftover rinse water. Probably takes about as long as it took me to type this.

[andiesenji]

I have a few non-stick skillets/omelet pans and a couple of "specialty" pans - with "wells" for "pan" cakes so I don't have to use the SS rings.

I have one of the "original" Calphalon skillets - 12 inch - when they first offered non-stick in 1992 and it has held up nicely with careful use and avoiding dishwasher and abrasives.  (My other Calphalon was purchased in the late '70s at a restaurant supply place before it became a consumer retail line but after the "hard anodized" line was introduced - Except for a couple of stock pots that "silvered out" and were replaced free when I shipped them back to the factory, they have held up amazingly well.

 

I use my antique (more than 100 years old) cast iron skillets and griddles which are well seasoned and non-stick in that sense.  I have one reserved for baking corn bread and that comes out easily, never sticks and neither do the Dutch Baby oven pancakes I bake in the same skillet.

 

Some things I don't cook at all in non-stick pans and I don't have much trouble with sticking - most things eventually "release" on their own, excpet for things with a high sugar content, etc. 

[Smithy]

One of the best techniques for sauteeing proteins is to make a pan sauce by deglazing. You get a delicious, easy sauce and clean the pan, all in one step. If you're not doing that, just throw water into the pan while it's still hot and scrape it with a spatula. The boiling hot water does most of the work. I haven't put a pan in the dishwasher ever.

This works very well. I first learned about deglazing and building a sauce using those nice brown bits from Lynne Rosetto Kasper's radio show, The Splendid Table. My cookery made a quantum leap with that one trick, and my nonstick pans began getting much less use as a result. The cleanup as paulraphael describes was a logical extension and is my preferred cleaning method for my prize pans. (To be fair, I'll note that my darling still prefers using our nonstick cookware; he doesn't like worrying about things sticking, and wants things he can throw in the dishwasher.)

[huiray]

It's 100% about technique. If the pan is hot enough, the oil gets hot enough, and the food is dry when it goes in, it won't stick. Proteins will stick at first, before the browning reactions are complete, but that's normal. Don't touch anything at this point. If you pry proteins off the pan while they're still stuck, you'll have a mess. Wait until it releases easily before moving or flipping.

 

This works for everything. You can cook delicate fish with the skin on like this (but I'd suggest practicing first with something less sticky / delicate). 

 

One of the best techniques for sauteeing proteins is to make a pan sauce by deglazing. You get a delicious, easy sauce and clean the pan, all in one step. If you're not doing that, just throw water into the pan while it's still hot and scrape it with a spatula. The boiling hot water does most of the work. I haven't put a pan in the dishwasher ever.

 

Yes.  I use stainless steel cookware.  No non-stick stuff, but not because I have any HANG-UPS about the teflon coating, unlike some posters here.  One just has to have the pan/pot/whatever hot enough, then one has to "walk away" and leave the stuff alone in the pan until it releases by itself.  Occasionally a slight nudge with a spatula is not amiss, but for the most part one simply has to have a certain amount of patience and a "watching what happens" sensibility.

[Shel_B]

How does anyone use stainless pans for sauteeing and not have things stick like hell to them?  I have Revere ware pans (old ones) and some very expensive Cuisinart pans and whether I start with the pan hot or cold before the oil/grease goes in, everything sticks. 

 

Hi Sylvia ... When I first started using SS I had the same problem, and almost ruined an All-Clad 12-inch skillet.  It looks awful but, almost 40 years later, it's still a kitchen workhorse.

 

I've found that there is a substantial difference in the results with different SS pans.  All SS is not created equal.  For example, Toots purchased an 8-quart Martha Stewart soup pot, which has about the same shape and dimensions as my 8-quart All-Clad soup pot, and whenever I cook using Martha's pot, I have to "fight" the pan.  Food sticks much too easily, and the pot, after just a few uses, is showing signs of distress.  It's definitely more difficult to clean than the All-Clad and the one small Calphalon saucepan that I have.

 

Here's the 10-inch All-Clad on the stove, cleaned and ready to use.  I'll be cooking some pot stickers.

 

 

Here, after heating the pan, I've added just a small amount of oil to the pan, about 1 Tbs, maybe a scosh less.  You can see that not a lot of oil was used.

 

 

I've added the pot stickers to the pan after the pan and the oil has been heated.

 

 

Here you can see how nicely browned the pot stickers are.  Notice that there is absolutely no sticking.

 

 

This is the pan after cooking the pot stickers.  Again, note that there is no sticking, although there is a small area where the oil stuck to the pan a bit.  When The pot stickers were removed from the pan, I removed it from the heat to allow it to cool down a bit before cleaning the pan.

 

 

And here's the pan after cleaning.  Looks just as it did before cooking.  I just used some hot, soapy water and a touch of Bar Keeper's Friend to remove the sticky oil patch.  I didn't dry the pan before photographing it, so you can see some water beads.

 

 

IMO, the trick is to heat the pan first, and not too hot, add the oil or fat and let it come up to temp, then add the items to be cooked.  With the All-Clad, I rarely use more than medium heat, but sometimes I'll bring the heat up to what might be called medium high.

 

When cooking meat, I want a little sticking in order to develop the fond.  Deglazing usually removes any stuck on bits, and anything remaining is usually removed with a soak in hot, soapy water and, worst case, a touch up with Bar Keeper's Friend.  As suggested elsewhere in this thread, when cooking meat and other proteins, just let the meat cook without moving it around.  The meat will develop a nice crust and will release easily and cleanly from the skillet.

 

This is the Bar Keepers Friend product I use on my cookware.

 

I hope this helps you a little ....

Edited June 30, 2015 by Shel_B (log)

[Thanks for the Crepes]

I love my SS KitchenAid 12" triple-ply deep stainless steel bonded skillet. It works great for frying zucchini, fish, shrimp, but doesn't work at all for fried rice or fried grits (polenta). The KitchenAid is my biggest skillet, and is always my go to for veg and/or meat stir fries. It's also so heavy as to be a real problem to me these days, although it wasn't when I bought it. At least it has a "helper handle". Proteins will release, but starches won't. What a mess, trying to make fried rice or grits!

 

I still have use for my non-stick skillets for eggs, crepes, and anything starchy.

 

I also have a 10" Wagner Ware cast iron skillet, and if I'm caught out by a thunderstorm, when I've planned to grill out, that is my choice, in summer when I choose not to run the broiler against the A/C, although it is mostly a waste of a good steak. It does not approach the grilled flavor to me. I use the Wagner for cornbread too in the oven or for other dishes that are started on the stovetop and finished in the oven.

 

All of them have their uses, but Shel_B, I hear you. I have reservations about heating plastics too. I never overheat my non-stick.

[huiray]

I love my SS KitchenAid 12" triple-ply deep stainless steel bonded skillet. It works great for frying zucchini, fish, shrimp, but doesn't work at all for fried rice or fried grits (polenta). The KitchenAid is my biggest skillet, and is always my go to for veg and/or meat stir fries. It's also so heavy as to be a real problem to me these days, although it wasn't when I bought it. At least it has a "helper handle". Proteins will release, but starches won't. What a mess, trying to make fried rice or grits!

 

 

Hmm.  I do my fried rice in my SS pans without issue, if I use the usual 1-2 day-old relatively dry rice &etc with the usual full heat on and enough (not too much!) oil. I've done it for yonks. REHEATING fried rice (with some added liquid) is when the sticking occurs, but I personally don't mind scraping it off the pan surface.

[SylviaLovegren]

It's 100% about technique. If the pan is hot enough, the oil gets hot enough, and the food is dry when it goes in, it won't stick. Proteins will stick at first, before the browning reactions are complete, but that's normal. Don't touch anything at this point. If you pry proteins off the pan while they're still stuck, you'll have a mess. Wait until it releases easily before moving or flipping.

 

This works for everything. You can cook delicate fish with the skin on like this (but I'd suggest practicing first with something less sticky / delicate). 

 

One of the best techniques for sauteeing proteins is to make a pan sauce by deglazing. You get a delicious, easy sauce and clean the pan, all in one step. If you're not doing that, just throw water into the pan while it's still hot and scrape it with a spatula. The boiling hot water does most of the work. I haven't put a pan in the dishwasher ever.

 

Deglazing is not a problem, that's standard in this house.

 

The trick is to leave the protein (or potato?) that sticking like crazy until it releases itself?  I been doin' this a long time and ain't never noticed that happening, but it's worth a try. 

[huiray]

Deglazing is not a problem, that's standard in this house.

 

The trick is to leave the protein (or potato?) that sticking like crazy until it releases itself?  I been doin' this a long time and ain't never noticed that happening, but it's worth a try. 

 

The pan needs to be hot enough.  If one objects to "smells" being released/produced and therefore turns the heat down then that may be a problem.

[Shel_B]

I love my SS KitchenAid 12" triple-ply deep stainless steel bonded skillet [...] Proteins will release, but starches won't. What a mess, trying to make fried rice or grits!

 

 

That's not a problem here, so maybe it's a difference in technique or ingredients <shrug>.  However, one thing I do that some people may not, is to clean the pans frequently with Bar Keepers Friend.  I just don't allow any buildup of dirt or grease of any sort.  That's probably more about how I like all my dishes and cookware cleaned, but I am absolutely convinced that a clean SS skillet can only work in your favor.

 

If you're talking about starches not releasing, note that the pot stickers in the pics above didn't stick at all.  Maybe it's a different kind of starch ...