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Induction cooktops and electrical power

afs

By afs
in Kitchen Consumer

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afs

afs

Posted
Posted

I just saw this, and thought some folks here might find it interesting.  I don't know if they're licensing Breville's patents or if the cooktop will even ship, but it's definitely something interesting.

All four burners are supposed to have large pan-contact temperature sensors, and the UI touchscreen down the center seems to be able to specify set temperature (and maybe also power temperature).  I'm not quite sure on all the details.
 


Website (product page):
https://www.impulselabs.com/

Since most 50A 120V (US) kitchen outlets are somewhat limited in their power output, the cooktop has a 3 kWh battery inside it...so that it can boost energy for short periods of time, for getting water to a boil quickly or for searing.

It's not inexpensive, roughly the same as four Control Freaks.  I wonder how large the coils are underneath those oversized glass-like burner covers.

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gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure how that power burst would help a home cook.  I am really impatient, but my gas blue star is fast enough with a boil for me.

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Deephaven

Deephaven

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, gfweb said:

I'm not sure how that power burst would help a home cook.  I am really impatient, but my gas blue star is fast enough with a boil for me.

Test driving a wolf induction and couldn't believe how much faster it was than my blue start.  Using the same pan I could nearly put 50% more ground beef in it without getting water in the bottom of it.  Was shockingly effective.  Enough so that I ordered one and am selling my Blue Star.  I've had the BS since 2007 and it has treated me REALLY well, but I am excited to move into my new kitchen here soon with the Wolf.

 

It's going on this wall.  

kYcaNCe.jpg

Hoping they start sheetrock on Monday!

Edited by Deephaven (log)
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AlaMoi

AlaMoi

Posted
Posted

"Since most 50A 120V (US) kitchen outlets are somewhat limited . . . "

immediate tip off; uber-false assumptions - be aware all info likely total BS . . .

palo

palo

Posted
Posted

50 amp/120 volt circuits require 6 AWG copper, which is expensive, not very flexible and of course the circuit breaker is not cheap. Obviously this route is not followed in many (all) kitchens.

 

p

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Laurentius

Laurentius

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

Using the same pan I could nearly put 50% more ground beef in it without getting water in the bottom of it.  Was shockingly effective. 

 

This reminds me of the sales pitches and after-the-fact justifications for 700 horsepower cars that will only ever travel on city streets and 70mph highways.

 

You can brown more hamburger at one time in the same large pan?  This is needed?

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rotuts

rotuts

Posted
Posted (edited)

the concept noted by this company is extremely impressive.

 

induction ( high quality , durability ) cooktops are the way to go

 

at some point.

 

adding a reliable battery for an energy boot is impressive.

 

price point , total cost , ready to use in a kitchen 

 

would be a critical factor.

 

and  electronics getting along with heat  .

 

ideas are one thing ,  

 

translating those ideas into ordinary reality 

 

quite another .

 

an example :   how are those solar single roofs working out 

 

so far ?

 

but Id love to hav this type of cooktop

 

working tomorrow in my kitchen .

 

and be able to have it work seamlessly  

 

for as long as a mid-level HoneDepot gas stove would.

 

P.S.:  any idea what the cooktop would retail for ?

 

inhalation costs ?

 

proper wiring costs ?

Edited by rotuts (log)
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Deephaven

Deephaven

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Laurentius said:

 

This reminds me of the sales pitches and after-the-fact justifications for 700 horsepower cars that will only ever travel on city streets and 70mph highways.

 

You can brown more hamburger at one time in the same large pan?  This is needed?

It was just a torture test of the situation, but yes if you cook for my inlaws it is absolutely needed.  My wife is one of 11.  When we all get together it means you are cooking for 40.  It makes a HUGE difference.

 

And to be fair, the Blue star with a thick bimetal copper pan preheated to ripping hot gets overwhelmed at anything over 1.5lbs.  The induction could handle 2.5lbs.  2.5 is about what I'd make for 6-8 people.  Already means multiple burners.  So yes, it is super helpful. 

 

As an aside, you could extrapolate your argument for why do you need a bluestar when an 8k btu GE does the job as well.  Personally I will take the better tool everytime and if it is something I use everyday I am willing to invest in that tool.

 

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blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

electric cooktops and ovens and ranges operate on 220/240 volts in USA, not 110v

 

Yes, but it's not uncommon for a kitchen with all gas appliances to have all or mostly 110 volt circuits. 

When I moved here I hoped to replace the gas cooktop with an induction model but there's no 220/240 volt circuit available. Running electrical in this post and beam house is not trivial and would have cost a bundle so I got another gas cooktop.  

 

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Laurentius

Laurentius

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Deephaven said:

When we all get together it means you are cooking for 40.

 

This is basically an institutional application.  You have lots of choices in that market.

AlaMoi

AlaMoi

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

Yes, but it's not uncommon for a kitchen with all gas appliances to have all or mostly 110 volt circuits. 

 

 

that is "std" in USA - but a 50 amp 110v kitchen circuit is unheard of. 

it's exceptionally rare to find a 220v circuit with an outlet in the kitchen.  the cooktops/ovens/etc are "hardwired"

palo

palo

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

it's exceptionally rare to find a 220v circuit with an outlet in the kitchen.  the cooktops/ovens/etc are "hardwired"

If you're handy and do your research, it's not that difficult or expensive to add a 220 volt socket in your kitchen - I've done it - all you need is a breaker, wire and a socket - again I stress "do your research"

 

p

Laurentius

Laurentius

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AlaMoi said:

it's exceptionally rare to find a 220v circuit with an outlet in the kitchen. 

 

Both my (old) houses have them. 

afs

afs

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

"Since most 50A 120V (US) kitchen outlets are somewhat limited . . . "

immediate tip off; uber-false assumptions - be aware all info likely total BS . . .

 

Sorry, I made a typo (or egregious grammar error) in my original post.

In the US, most kitchens are either wired with a single 50A 240V outlet (12000 watt on the nameplate, 9600 watts after the necessary 20% de-rating for continuous usage) plus one or more 120V 15/20A circuits...or they are just wired with lower-wattage (often 120V 20A) outlets.  The 50A 240V outlet is usually shared by the oven and stove cooktop, and the reason it's often missing (especially in homes built decades ago) is because the assumption was that gas stoves don't need a big electrical outlet.  Contractors tend to omit circuits they don't have to install, to save money (or increase profits).

If there's a 50A 240V outlet that is not also shared with an oven, it could provide 2400 watts continuously to four induction burners (or focus a lot more power into a smaller number of burners).  But when one is trying to boil water, warm up a pan, and warm up the oven all at the same time...that 9600 watts of power can quickly look inadequate.

Putting a battery underneath a cooktop is a really interesting idea because it could make things feel more instantaneous for induction cooktops, similar to what people are used to with methane.  That said, putting a battery indoors and near heating elements is certainly an engineering challenge.  I prefer to keep my batteries far away from heat sources.  Especially if they're combustible. 

The whole bidirectional inverter talk in that video above, by the way, is also curious.  I'm not sure how much help 3 kWh of power is going to be to support the grid outside of very short outages.  A typically home battery is 4 to 5 times that large, and typically the current one can pull from a battery at any given time is relatively proportional to the capacity of the battery.  So that all seems more like marketing than a killer use case.

In any case, I would love to see Breville build a cooktop like this (even without the battery feature).  If we're lucky, they're already working on one.  I will gladly buy one, especially if one or more burners are larger and can go up to 2400 watts like the EU/ANZ Control Freaks--or in my wilder dreams 3600+ watts--for quicker boiling of water, aggressive searing, etc.  And if it's Impulse Labs that does it first, well, hopefully they plan to stick around for a very long time so I can justify buying one.

Edited by afs (log)
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palo

palo

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

what did the outlet / plugs look like?

Leviton 5822-W 20-Amp, 250-Volt - I matched it up with the induction burner I was using

 

p

AlaMoi

AlaMoi

Posted
Posted

in near 50 years of house hunting/buying/building I have never seen 240 "convenience" outlets installed in residential.

plug in 240 for clothes dryer - all the other 240 stuff "hard wired"

 

what kind of plug in kitchen appliances are available / sold in 240v?

 

dated Nov 2021:

"In the case of an electric cooktop or built-in oven, it requires hardwiring to the electric system of the home -- building codes do not permit using a 240-volt outlet in this scenario."

chromedome

chromedome

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

it's exceptionally rare to find a 220v circuit with an outlet in the kitchen.  the cooktops/ovens/etc are "hardwired"

 

 

1 hour ago, AlaMoi said:

in near 50 years of house hunting/buying/building I have never seen 240 "convenience" outlets installed in residential.

plug in 240 for clothes dryer - all the other 240 stuff "hard wired"

...

Dated Nov 2021:

"In the case of an electric cooktop or built-in oven, it requires hardwiring to the electric system of the home -- building codes do not permit using a 240-volt outlet in this scenario."

 

Wow, that never would have occurred to me. Here in Canada a 240v outlet is standard for ranges, and hard-wired is limited only to wall ovens and cooktops, which are relatively uncommon (at least in the 6 provinces where I've lived). When I bought us an upgraded (used) range last year, I just unplugged the old one and plugged in the new one. It took me about 5 minutes, and it wouldn't have been that long if the builders hadn't been complete idiots about the kitchen layout.

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“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

dcarch

dcarch

Posted
Posted

That is a lot of power to heat up a pan/pot almost instantly.

1. A lot of power requires a lot of copper to heat up and then cool down. Copper is in short supply and very expensive. That's why many wires and cables are made with aluminum nowadays.

2. High power high frequency magnetic cooktop, have they look into pace maker issues?

3. Many of my pots' and pans' bottoms are warped even on low heat cooktops.

4. For some people, it is nice to have a car with 1,000 HP engine just to get there a few minutes faster.

 

dcarch

 

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