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EATER bashes tinned fish.

Margaret Pilgrim

By Margaret Pilgrim
in Kitchen Consumer

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weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted

Just more hack writing by another hack, in order to get clicks.

 

Let's look at the caption under the lead picture:

 

Quote

Conservas work great as a pantry staple, but as the pricey centerpiece of a fancy charcuterie board? I’ll pass.

 

Now who the fuck puts "conservas"  (which according to this author and picture means tinned fish, as the word is never mentioned again in the piece) on a charcuterie board, when they have nothing to do with charcuterie?

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Is anyone near the top of Eater paying attention to the caliber of content?   Concept as well as writing?   Experience and judgment of writer?

eGullet member #80.

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Just more hack writing by another hack, in order to get clicks.

 

Let's look at the caption under the lead picture:

 

 

Now who the fuck puts "conservas"  (which according to this author and picture means tinned fish, as the word is never mentioned again in the piece) on a charcuterie board, when they have nothing to do with charcuterie?

 

To be fair, picture captions are rarely written by the article's writer and anyway the article does mention them again.

 

And tinned anything is a type of conserva. The word means tinned food.

 

The article is a hack job, though.

Edited by liuzhou (log)

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Is anyone near the top of Eater paying attention to the caliber of content?   Concept as well as writing?   Experience and judgment of writer?

 

Clearly not.

 

Eater pieces now often stray into political realms that have nothing  to do with food. Its just one more place farming clicks,,,just like F&W posts on twitter...mostly BS. 

 

Lately F&W has a penchant for pieces about tipping (tip more because every barista has a big cell phone bill to pay)  and how to treat your server. 

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weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

And tinned anything is a type of conserva. The word means tinned food.

As it's known in the current parlance, it's tinned seafood. What it's known as in the Oxford English Dictionary, or 4th Century Latin, or prehistoric China, I don't really care.

 

Yes, I did miss the one use of the word in the eater piece:

 

Quote

 Our new interest in European conservas has brought a dizzying array of tinned fish to the States

 

 

 

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Joe Blowe

Joe Blowe

Posted
Posted

Without having read the article, I will just say that shite writing and AI-generated nonsense is our future...

 

https://www.vox.com/technology/2023/7/18/23798164/gizmodo-ai-g-o-bot-stories-jalopnik-av-club-peter-kafka-media-column

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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

Laurentius

Laurentius

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Is anyone near the top of Eater paying attention to the caliber of content?   Concept as well as writing?   Experience and judgment of writer?

It's probably "written" by AI, which so far lacks opposable thumbs.

  • Like 1
Alex

Alex

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Joe Blowe said:

Without having read the article, I will just say that shite writing and AI-generated nonsense is our future...

 

https://www.vox.com/technology/2023/7/18/23798164/gizmodo-ai-g-o-bot-stories-jalopnik-av-club-peter-kafka-media-column

 

Yep. Death by a thousand cuts.

"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

A king can stand people's fighting, but he can't last long if people start thinking. -Will Rogers, humorist

Alex

Alex

Posted
Posted

To be honest, I understand where the writer is coming from, it's just that the quality of her writing leaves a lot to be desired. For just one example, any time someone describes a food item as "full of flavor," I'm pretty sure they're a hack at best.

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"There is no sincerer love than the love of food."  -George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman, Act 1

 

"Imagine all the food you have eaten in your life and consider that you are simply some of that food, rearranged."  -Max Tegmark, physicist

 

Gene Weingarten, writing in the Washington Post about online news stories and the accompanying readers' comments: "I basically like 'comments,' though they can seem a little jarring: spit-flecked rants that are appended to a product that at least tries for a measure of objectivity and dignity. It's as though when you order a sirloin steak, it comes with a side of maggots."

 

A king can stand people's fighting, but he can't last long if people start thinking. -Will Rogers, humorist

Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Also understand that writer/AI is coming from the experiences of tuna sandwiches and sardine/creme cheese dip.    Kind of missing the point of these products.    I have used (separately) shrimp and octopus in (what I consider) incredible mixed fish cerviches, have been served others straight out of the can with lemon, etc..   

eGullet member #80.

btbyrd

btbyrd

Posted
Posted

There's a lot to say about the current tinned fish trend and this piece manages to say none of it properly. Its central claim, that "even the best tinned fish is just okay," is false. I think it's because the author hasn't really eaten much good canned fish. There are plenty of excellent tins that scream luxury and are obviously are more than "just okay." The author is coming from a place of ignorance and inexperience, and that's a bad place from which to issue cultural criticism. You end up producing hacky clickbait instead of food journalism.

 

For what it's worth, endorse the author's remark that "if I’m never asked to pay $20 for a plate of cold, canned sardines at a restaurant again, it will be too soon." Agreed, though Gabrielle Hamilton gets a pass. What's worse are the wine bars that mirthlessly serve entire menus of conservas at spectacular prices. The markup is enormous on already expensive products, and the food is never served in a way that you couldn't do at home. If you want to feature tinned fish in a dish, make a dish. Don't open a $10 tin and put it on a plate with some toast points and cornichon and charge me $35 for it. I will never eat at your restaurant. My life is that restaurant.

 

Speaking of price, the author complains that it can "cost as much as $26 for a single can of tuna." As someone who has paid $40 for a tin of tuna, I can tell you that she's not reaching high enough. There's a $66 tin of grilled red tuna neck that I'm dying to try but I'm waiting for the right occasion. But her remarks make me wonder if she's ever even tasted ventresca. Nobody tell her about the baby eels.

 

Since the author went out of her way not to name Fishwife, I'll call them out for having products that are too expensive, overhyped, and mostly sold on the strength of their branding. Honestly, that's all that Fishwife is: branding. Their actual products aren't produced or canned by them... they just slap Gurrl Power! boxes on them and charge a huge markup (and then make you pay for shipping). The fish itself, at least in their classic smoked offerings, is overly firm and too salty. You have to chum it up and mix it in with other things, and that's stupid when you're paying $15 a tin -- especially when you can get hot smoked fish that's much better and much less expensive at the seafood counter. The author made a similar point, and I'm totally with her on that.

 

Finally, I think we can all agree that it's dumb to put gold leaf in a tin of sardines. 

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palo

palo

Posted
Posted

Is there a difference between "tinned" and "canned" - I've always used "canned", but I buy the cheap stuff!

 

p

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, palo said:

Is there a difference between "tinned" and "canned" - I've always used "canned", but I buy the cheap stuff!

 

p

 

British English v American English, in the main.

  • Like 1

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
On 8/30/2023 at 3:32 PM, btbyrd said:

Don't open a $10 tin and put it on a plate with some toast points and cornichon and charge me $35 for it. I will never eat at your restaurant.

 

You mean...

 

IMG_7844(1).thumb.jpeg.4ada53ef164faa1d6d7c9dc8dd4c8972.jpeg

 

To be honest, the price was OK and the anchovies were very good, as was the butter. The bread, on the other hand, was not full of flavor...because this restaurant is in Florence.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

IndyRob

IndyRob

Posted
Posted

I've been 'tinned fish' curious since Anthony Bourdain went to that place in Spain in his show.

 

But I didn't think that meant I should go to my grocery and buy some fish in a can.

 

The whole point was that Spain has some exceptional examples.

 

The Eater article does not mention any brands.  In fact, it actively avoids it. (in one case, for our protection, she says - but wouldn't we be better protected if we knew what not to buy?).

 

At a specialty shop...

 

One of those options is a $44 tin of sardines, which my colleague Robert Sietsema notes were “skinned and deboned laboriously by hand,” with a mild flavor and dots of gold leaf to really drive home the luxury vibe. He “vastly” preferred a $15 tin, and noted that he didn’t see much distinction between these extravagant tins and plain ol’ supermarket sardines.

 

Why would you not tell us what, precisely, those products were?

 

Okay, I get it.  Maybe you're just commenting on the cultural fad.  But it's not a fad in Spain, is it?

 

 

 

 

blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

Why would you not tell us what, precisely, those products were?

Maybe clickbait to get readers to click over to Seitsema's piece. 

haresfur

haresfur

Posted
Posted

A dormant member of the forum's two-year old grabbed a tin off the shelf in the supermarket gourmet section, which is how the kid developed a taste for octopus

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It's almost never bad to feed someone.

Duvel

Duvel

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

You mean...

 

IMG_7844(1).thumb.jpeg.4ada53ef164faa1d6d7c9dc8dd4c8972.jpeg

 

To be honest, the price was OK and the anchovies were very good, as was the butter. The bread, on the other hand, was not full of flavor...because this restaurant is in Florence.


Come on … Italians 🙄

 

What do they know about good food ?!

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Duvel

Duvel

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, IndyRob said:

But it's not a fad in Spain, is it?


Nope, definitely not. One of the better Catalan brands called Espinaler is based some 15 min south of my in-laws hometown. I visit there regularly - their products are great, and they are running a vermouth business, that goes hand in hand with enjoying the fish.

 

As with everything, appreciation usually comes with experiencing the same matter in many, many different manifestations. Think sashimi: you can tell easily the supermarket stuff from the restaurant stuff. But then there are better restaurants, there are great restaurants, there are great restaurants in Japan, there is the stuff you get fresh at Tsukiji fishmarket (or used to) and there is the stuff that you can’t buy because you get it served by a friend from Kitakyushu, who got is from a family friend of 40 years that just landed the fish on his boat this morning. In Germany it’s Mettwurst, a cured sausage. Need to sample many, many versions to be able to understand what makes it great and what is mediocre.

 

Same for tinned fish. If you start with a great raw material, you know how to process it - temperatures, oil, flavoring, curing times, portion size (yes) - you’ll end up with a great product. Maybe easier to understand with canned tuna, having an huge chunk of carefully oil-poached ventresca (or belly) vs. the grit you get in salted water for 99c. But it extends to any seafood product you can think of. And finally knowing how to serve it and with which drink … you have an experience there. If you are not able to distinguish, to understand and enjoy a product, you shouldn’t write a lousy article about it (aimed at the writer).

  • Like 8
Katie Meadow

Katie Meadow

Posted
Posted

I have a couple of stupid questions, but since they are both about sardines this must be the place.

 

One:  about the size of the cans. Most tinned sardines come in approx 4 oz tins. Personally I've always found this to be an awkward size, a bit too much for one portion of sardines on toast and not quite enough for the two of us, depending of course on how we are eating them. Am I a wimp? Do most people consider this standard tin to be the best size per person? For just a simple sardine in oil I like the slightly smaller can of Matiz small sardines. For the two of us I sometimes use a regular size and a smaller size combined. Strangely, I consider a 4 oz portion of fresh fish to be on the stingy side. 

 

Two: about tinned vs fresh. The fresh sardine catch has pretty much tanked around Monterey Bay and other CA locations. When I first moved to the Bay Area in the seventies you could often buy fresh sardines very cheap and they were delicious grilled. Do the Spanish and Portuguese eat a lot of sardines fresh? I assume they have a well regulated sardine fishery.

 

@btbyrd--hilarious! I too give Gabrielle Hamilton a pass for no good reason except that she invented Sardines on Triscuits. Although, since it is so easy to replicate at home I never considered ordering it when dining at Prune. Those were the days.

 

Currently my favorite sardine pantry meal is Nuri spicy sardines over Japanese sushi rice. That way I get to used all the oil in the can. A simple cucumber salad with rice wine vinegar and sesame oil on the side is perfect.

 

 

  • Like 3
Duvel

Duvel

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

I have a couple of stupid questions, but since they are both about sardines this must be the place.

 

One:  about the size of the cans. Most tinned sardines come in approx 4 oz tins. Personally I've always found this to be an awkward size, a bit too much for one portion of sardines on toast and not quite enough for the two of us, depending of course on how we are eating them. Am I a wimp? Do most people consider this standard tin to be the best size per person? For just a simple sardine in oil I like the slightly smaller can of Matiz small sardines. For the two of us I sometimes use a regular size and a smaller size combined. Strangely, I consider a 4 oz portion of fresh fish to be on the stingy side. 

 

Two: about tinned vs fresh. The fresh sardine catch has pretty much tanked around Monterey Bay and other CA locations. When I first moved to the Bay Area in the seventies you could often buy fresh sardines very cheap and they were delicious grilled. Do the Spanish and Portuguese eat a lot of sardines fresh? I assume they have a well regulated sardine fishery.

 

@btbyrd--hilarious! I too give Gabrielle Hamilton a pass for no good reason except that she invented Sardines on Triscuits. Although, since it is so easy to replicate at home I never considered ordering it when dining at Prune. Those were the days.

 

Currently my favorite sardine pantry meal is Nuri spicy sardines over Japanese sushi rice. That way I get to used all the oil in the can. A simple cucumber salad with rice wine vinegar and sesame oil on the side is perfect.

 

 


I’ll answer briefly, as others might feel differently:

 

#1: I understand the confusion, but tinned sardines are not meant to be eaten with bread. They are a vital ingredient of any sardine shake and 100g is the standard amount required for the breakfast version.

 

#2: yes, the Spanish eat a lot of fresh sardines. Occasionally grilled, but usually fried a la plancha, with olive oil, garlic and parsley. They are amongst the cheapest options in a harbor restaurant, but when in season definitely one of the best.

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