New Kitchen

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, chromedome said:

 

I'm kind of curious about this, so I'm going to ask for clarification. Is it your current microwave that you're specifically attached to, or the general notion of an over-range microwave?

 

I've always considered an over-the-range microwave to be the sort of thing one does from stark necessity, when there's no other practical place to have one. If there are specific advantages to such an arrangement I'd be curious to hear them.

I've always considered any microwave to be superfluous, but of course I'm an outlier.

 

Once the CSO came into being, I 'm quite happy that a microwave has no place in my kitchen.

[chromedome]

26 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I've always considered any microwave to be superfluous, but of course I'm an outlier.

 

Once the CSO came into being, I 'm quite happy that a microwave has no place in my kitchen.

 

Yup. My GF did without one quite happily until a couple of years before we got together (though in her case, it was because she'd believed someone's tale of them being a radiation hazard).

 

Mine gets used every morning to heat my oatmeal, and through the day to reheat my morning pot of tea one cup at a time. Also for thawing/reheating food as well, though not as consistently. Never really found a use-case for a CSO in my own kitchen, though doubtless if I tripped across a working specimen on a buy-sell site for a suitable price (which in my case means $50-$60 CDN) I'd splurge.

 

It would be a dull old world if we all had the same preferences and predilections.

 

Edited to clarify: I make a large batch of steel-cut oats and then reheat it one portion at a time over a period of days. I'm not talking about the (shudder) instant kind.

Edited March 2, 2020 by chromedome (log)

[gfweb]

36 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I've always considered any microwave to be superfluous, but of course I'm an outlier.

 

Once the CSO came into being, I 'm quite happy that a microwave has no place in my kitchen.

 

Agreed.  I use t he uWave for warming plates and pre heating hotdogs before I char the crap out of them on the stove. CSO is just better at everything else

[weinoo]

8 minutes ago, chromedome said:

 

Yup. My GF did without one quite happily until a couple of years before we got together (though in her case, it was because she'd believed someone's tale of them being a radiation hazard).

 

It would be a dull old world if we all had the same preferences and predilections.

 

Absolutely.  In my case, I don't regret not having one at all.

 

When we gut renovated our tiny apartment in DC (during my wife's tenure down there), I put an IKEA kitchen in there - it included an over-the-range microwave, since her cooking amounted to frozen Amy's burritos and things like that.  Or on occasion, meals that I prepped and froze for her to use during the week. She also liked to reheat coffee in the MW (shudder).

[Anna N]

20 minutes ago, weinoo said:

She also liked to reheat coffee in the MW (shudder).

Never understood how long can drink this stuff! Shudder is right. 

[MokaPot]

I have an over-the-stove microwave oven. I use the microwave oven every day. It broke once and I replaced it.

 

I don't have a venting system.

[heidih]

Re did kitchen 6 or so years ago. Brother in law wanted all Bosch. I went along with him.  Old oven configuration was double gas. The current yuck is one electric oven with an overly busy internal fan and MW over it. Of course the MW pooped out last year -turns on and then shuts self off but getting repair guy who I trust out is expensive and the cabinetry to deal with. I stuck a $60 MW in an unused corner. Only use to reheat. The stove fan is annoying cuz it is "smart" randomly comes on when it thinks it needs to and then won't shut off unless I argue with it.  Fridge is great. Dishwasher is a pain to figure out how to arrange and then un-interlock things than it is worth - quiet though. I never use it. I keep an old toaster oven on the garage work counter and that works for me for small items. Open garage side door to "vent". The most annoying bit is the glass on the oven door. So useless - can't really tell what is going on without opening door in my experience. I've spoken to others with same or similar glass door and they all have issues cleaning it. It is 2 layers of glass with a gap and not something I want to take apart. Seems like grease atomizes and lands between layers. My sister had one (brand unknown) that was easy to take apart. Grrrr. 

 

[Porthos]

I do wish Bosch would offer a replacement lower basket that had one even pattern of "fingers" since the varied pattern doesn't meet my needs quite as well.  Like it otherwise. 

[Porthos]

My DW and SIL went with a Samsung suite of kitchen appliances as well as their clothes washer and dryer.  They had to have warranty work done on several items in the first couple of years,  and a leak screwed up their flooring.  It was replaced.  No thanks.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Porthos (log)

[weinoo]

I had a Bosch gas range for like 11 years...it worked great and I never had any problems with it.  When we demo-ed our kitchen to do the reno, I was able to sell the range, my old Miele DW, my old Amana fridge, my IKEA cabs and butcher block top to a neighbor who had just bought their apartment and wanted an upgrade to the original 50-year old kitchen.

 

[TicTac]

I did not necessarily want a microwave when I gutted this place we are in, but my wife did.  To me they are big, clunky and serve little purpose.  She likes it for convenience... (I do all the cooking - shocking, I know).

 

So I put it mounted in the kitchen island!  Out of the way, accessible, and not in my face!

 

I splurged on my range (a Wolf) but felt it wise to save on the fridge/dishwasher so went with Kitchen Aid for both - happy choice, both have served us very well (knocks on wood).

 

My only regret was not putting an electrical outlet in my island, and I continually kick myself on that one!!!

 

 

[lindag]

1 hour ago, TicTac said:

 

 

My only regret was not putting an electrical outlet in my island, and I continually kick myself on that one!!!

 

 

Yes.  A necessity, for sure.

I actually think I'll have an outlet on each of the long sides...There are times when that would be pretty handy, especially now with so many ipots and electric grills around,

Edited March 3, 2020 by lindag (log)

[chromedome]

1 hour ago, lindag said:

Yes.  A necessity, for sure.

I actually think I'll have an outlet on each of the long sides...There are times when that would be pretty handy, especially now with so many ipots and electric grills around,

 

You can also get popup outlets now that fit neatly into the middle of the oversized islands that are currently popular. It leaves your space free when they're not in use, but means you don't have to confine appliances to the ends of the island.

[TicTac]

1 hour ago, lindag said:

Yes.  A necessity, for sure.

I actually think I'll have an outlet on each of the long sides...There are times when that would be pretty handy, especially now with so many ipots and electric grills around,

 

 

It is what it is at this point.  If it really bothered me I could have a few run to the island.  It just means that my electrical needs are moved to one of the other counter tops.  My island is a bit different in that it is a half hexagon essentially, with room for 6 to sit around the outside - but not in a straight row - obviously  (makes for more engaging/intimate dinner parties, etc)

Edited March 3, 2020 by TicTac (log)

[heidih]

4 hours ago, TicTac said:

My only regret was not putting an electrical outlet in my island, and I continually kick myself on that one!!!

 

 

We have a duplex on each end. Comes in handy

[mumkin]

4 hours ago, TicTac said:

I did not necessarily want a microwave when I gutted this place we are in […] So I put it mounted in the kitchen island!

[…]

My only regret was not putting an electrical outlet in my island, and I continually kick myself on that one!!!

 

It sounds like you've got electricity to the island if the microwave is mounted there. Is it not possible to tie an outlet into your microwave's circuit? (drifting off topic, I know)

[TicTac]

3 hours ago, mumkin said:

 

It sounds like you've got electricity to the island if the microwave is mounted there. Is it not possible to tie an outlet into your microwave's circuit? (drifting off topic, I know)

 

It certainly is.  It just would involve an electrician, mess, and me getting annoyed/stressed out (I detest having trades messing up my place!)

 

Until wireless electricity comes to fruition, I will simply move a couple feet to another countertop and blitz things there.

 

 

 

 

[heidih]

@TicTac I understand contractor mess Spent years hand holding researchers freaking as the guys remodeled their active labs. (chocolate seemed to work also) I find that opening your mind to out of box ideas can surprise. When I did not have many outlets in another house I'd do the corned beef in the garage or the rice on the kitchen patio. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

 

I'm with tic tac.    "If it ain't REALLY broke, don't fix it."    That's a corollary of "Never pray for a new king."       And Murphy's Law, "If it can happen, it will happen,"

[Dave the Cook]

On 2/19/2020 at 10:18 AM, lindag said:

My new house is in the early stages; it is barely framed up but I'm already dreaming of my dream kitchen.

Yesterday I went to our one big appliance store (other than HD and Lowe's) and I think I'm going to go wild with the new units.

First up I'm thinking of a Sub-Zero side by side.  A Thermador 30" slide-in dual fuel range, a Bosch d/w as well as a new m/w and a new hood of a type yet to be determined.  All this is really overkill since I'm by no means a big presence in the kitchen, and these expensive appliances do not define the home which is really rather modest.  But I'm figuring this is my last rodeo, if you will.

I have heard of some folk having trouble with Sub-Zero repairs so I plan to add a warranty protection plan..

Anyone have any negative experiences with any of these brands?\

 

ETA: I have been reading reviews online about Sub-Zero fridges and I may have to re-think that choice.  Those reviews are not good.

Much as I'd like to have a custom-size I'm beginning to have grave concerns about repairs.

 

 

Congratulations on your rodeo!

 

I agree with your reconsideration of SubZero. The initial cost is steep, and if it breaks (not a lot of "if," really; they seem to be very touchy), its going to be a pain to repair. I have three direct experiences. 1) We have a friend in Raleigh, North Carolina who "inherited" (with the house) a SZ fridge and SZ freezer, both full-sized. He likes them fine until something breaks, and then he has to wait for really expensive and slow-to-arrive parts to be installed by an expensive technician. 2) the kitchen where we used to teach (in an affluent suburb of Atlanta) had two fridges and a freezer. (Now that I think about it, they may have all been counter-depth units.) The fridges, especially, were always in need of adjustment for one thing or another (usually having to do with programming), and really didn't have a lot of space, partly because the layouts were odd and (to me) irritating. For example, the butter compartment was at the top of the door, which is fine, but if you forgot to close the lid to the butter compartment, it would bounce the fridge door back open.  3) My brother and SIL have one in their kitchen. They are people who do not need to worry about the cost of anything, and yet my SIL was appalled at the price tag, especially when she compared it to the French-door Frigidaire in their butler's pantry. The Frigidaire did the same job -- kept things cold. but at a much lower price. And if it breaks, she can buy three or four more before she's spent as much as the SubZero cost. 

 

When we remodeled our kitchen, we got the same Frigidaire. Yes, we hooked up the icemaker, and it has performed flawlessly, except for occasionally flinging cubes across the floor when we've left the icemaker on too long (so admittedly, the auto shut-off isn't perfect). 

 

Thumbs up for the Bosch d/w. I wasn't sure about this purchase, but it's been great. I'm not dismissing @paulraphael's observation that it seems like the tines, especially on the bottom racks, seem to be too close together, but after a few months of exceptional results, I've given up trying to second-guess the designer, and cram those plates as close together as the racks allow. I have yet to be disappointed. One tip: before placing your order, compare the 800 and 300 series. The latter is about $250 cheaper, so if you don't need the bells and whistles of the 800 (not that the 300 series doesn't have a few of its own), save your money for something else, (like using detergent pods as Bosch recommends. Pods are more expensive, as @weinoo implies, but the difference is less than 10 cents per load, and pods are way more convenient. If you run your dishwasher once a day, the $250 you saved on the 300-series Bosch will let you use six years' worth of pods before you come close to making up the difference.)

 

I once did a lot of research on range hoods, "once" meaning 16 years ago, when I wrote this article for the Daily Gullet. The illustrations were lost in an upgrade, and many of the links are outdated, but --IMO -- it's still worth a read. tl;dr: 1) think (and plan) hard before just slapping in a high-capacity fan; 2) consult an HVAC person, rather than relying on the suspect expertise of a kitchen designer or appliance salesman. You can spend a lot of money for poor (and sometimes dangerous) results.

 

I've used a Thermador cooktop once in my life (at a vacation rental), and I loved it. But I think gas is overrated as a culinary fuel, so we have an electric range.

 

[lindag]

24 minutes ago, Dave the Cook said:

 

Congratulations on your rodeo!

 

I agree with your reconsideration of SubZero. The initial cost is steep, and if it breaks (not a lot of "if," really; they seem to be very touchy), its going to be a pain to repair. I have three direct experiences. 1) We have a friend in Raleigh, North Carolina who "inherited" (with the house) a SZ fridge and SZ freezer, both full-sized. He likes them fine until something breaks, and then he has to wait for really expensive and slow-to-arrive parts to be installed by an expensive technician. 2) the kitchen where we used to teach (in an affluent suburb of Atlanta) had two fridges and a freezer. (Now that I think about it, they may have all been counter-depth units.) The fridges, especially, were always in need of adjustment for one thing or another (usually having to do with programming), and really didn't have a lot of space, partly because the layouts were odd and (to me) irritating. For example, the butter compartment was at the top of the door, which is fine, but if you forgot to close the lid to the butter compartment, it would bounce the fridge door back open.  3) My brother and SIL have one in their kitchen. They are people who do not need to worry about the cost of anything, and yet my SIL was appalled at the price tag, especially when she compared it to the French-door Frigidaire in their butler's pantry. The Frigidaire did the same job -- kept things cold. but at a much lower price. And if it breaks, she can buy three or four more before she's spent as much as the SubZero cost. 

 

When we remodeled our kitchen, we got the same Frigidaire. Yes, we hooked up the icemaker, and it has performed flawlessly, except for occasionally flinging cubes across the floor when we've left the icemaker on too long (so admittedly, the auto shut-off isn't perfect). 

 

Thumbs up for the Bosch d/w. I wasn't sure about this purchase, but it's been great. I'm not dismissing @paulraphael's observation that it seems like the tines, especially on the bottom racks, seem to be too close together, but after a few months of exceptional results, I've given up trying to second-guess the designer, and cram those plates as close together as the racks allow. I have yet to be disappointed. One tip: before placing your order, compare the 800 and 300 series. The latter is about $250 cheaper, so if you don't need the bells and whistles of the 800 (not that the 300 series doesn't have a few of its own), save your money for something else, (like using detergent pods as Bosch recommends. Pods are more expensive, as @weinoo implies, but the difference is less than 10 cents per load, and pods are way more convenient. If you run your dishwasher once a day, the $250 you saved on the 300-series Bosch will let you use six years' worth of pods before you come close to making up the difference.)

 

I once did a lot of research on range hoods, "once" meaning 16 years ago, when I wrote this article for the Daily Gullet. The illustrations were lost in an upgrade, and many of the links are outdated, but --IMO -- it's still worth a read. tl;dr: 1) think (and plan) hard before just slapping in a high-capacity fan; 2) consult an HVAC person, rather than relying on the suspect expertise of a kitchen designer or appliance salesman. You can spend a lot of money for poor (and sometimes dangerous) results.

 

I've used a Thermador cooktop once in my life (at a vacation rental), and I loved it. But I think gas is overrated as a culinary fuel, so we have an electric range.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to add your advice.  I have many, many decisions to make so input like yours is priceless.

I’ll look carefully at the hoods, there are huge price differentials among them.

[TicTac]

While Dave makes some good points, the one I will strongly disagree with is with regards to the 'gas is overrated as a culinary fuel'. 

 

Not only can I get the best sear with a gas range, I also have tremendous flexibility in control and applications of the gas (easily roasting peppers right on the burner, for example)  Granted with the advent of induction its ability to control temp is superior, but you do have good temperature control capabilities with gas as well.  Not to mention when the power goes out, I can still cook!

 

Splurge on your range and hood - the rest, get as high quality as the budget will allow without having to 'splurge'!

 

 

[lindag]

I'm rethinking my decision on a new range.

I had thought I wanted this Thermador Dual Fuel

But the appliance experts are saying that Induction is the best choice these days.

Now the Cafe Induction is at the top of my list.

I love the look of both.  The clean top of the Café is wonderful.

[weinoo]

Well, sales people and experts will say almost anything.

 

How's your  supply of pots and pans - induction ready?

[lindag]

10 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Well, sales people and experts will say almost anything.

 

How's your  supply of pots and pans - induction ready?

Yes, almost all are either stainless or enameled cast iron.