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Not earth-shaking, but a cool refinement on induction

chromedome

By chromedome
in Kitchen Consumer

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chromedome

chromedome

Posted
Posted

https://www.fastcompany.com/90313508/why-top-restaurants-are-getting-rid-of-stoves-and-why-you-might-too

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“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

boilsover

boilsover

Posted
Posted

This is not yet in the market, correct?  The concept is fine, but it will probably be tippy.

 

The original induction hobs introduced were designed to be placed under stone countertops.  So if that can still be done, why would anyone want their hobs to hang on a wall?

chromedome

chromedome

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
28 minutes ago, gfweb said:

This link froze my computer twice.

That's weird. It's not like Fast Company is a dodgy site, or anything. And I use Adblock Plus, Ghostery and Firefox's own anti-tracking functions, so usually if the browser is going to break anything it'll break for me.

“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, chromedome said:

That's weird. It's not like Fast Company is a dodgy site, or anything. And I use Adblock Plus, Ghostery and Firefox's own anti-tracking functions, so usually if the browser is going to break anything it'll break for me.

yeah weird, but perhaps some ad on the site did it.

lemniscate

lemniscate

Posted
Posted

I met with an architect in the first process of planning a future home.  I told her I didn't want a traditional kitchen since I don't plan on having a range.   I use portable induction hobs, sous vide, Instant Pot, and portable convection oven for cooking now.  I will need lots of open counter space and  lots of outlets and easily accessible storage.  Almost like a lab.  I thought she was going to wince; quite the opposite, she excitedly agreed that kitchens are going to change rapidly from the traditional.  I guess the architecture community is expecting it.

 

Ikea has an induction hob meant to store hanging, Tillreda, I think I'll pick one up on my next expedition there.   My Burton is showing its age badly.

 

 

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gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

@blue_dolphin Interesting problem. Induction complicates ventilation. Part of the power of a hood involves the updraft of air; which is much less with induction.  I don't think I could do without a hood of some sort since searing and frying generates smoke.

 

I could envision a portable smoke evacuator that plugs into a vac port in the wall.  What code would think of this I don't know

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lemniscate

lemniscate

Posted
Posted

Oh, yeah.  I am planning to have some sort of an exhaust hood  over where I predict I would primarily doing the open cooking.  I think code requires it, IIRC.

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, lemniscate said:

Oh, yeah.  I am planning to have some sort of an exhaust hood  over where I predict I would primarily doing the open cooking.  I think code requires it, IIRC.

 

Recalling what I went through choosing a hood, there may be a lot of architect angst about hood power and height.  The calculations you can find on the net seem designed for a restaurant kitchen and are way over powered (IMHO) for a home.

 

We ended up getting one of decent power, but not crazy strong, and mounting it much higher than recommended (so I don't smash my head too much). It still suck very well.

 

I think that there was a hood power discussion on eG years ago

paulraphael

paulraphael

Posted
Posted
On 3/4/2019 at 10:29 AM, boilsover said:

The original induction hobs introduced were designed to be placed under stone countertops.  So if that can still be done, why would anyone want their hobs to hang on a wall?

 

The idea is that your workspace is adaptable to whatever you need. If you need to cook something, grab a hob. If you don't get it out of the way. 

 

As the article says, this is how they've done it at Alinea since the beginning, and it works brilliantly for them. I'm not sold 100% substitute for a home range, for a few reasons. I use a range enough for it to justify some permanent real estate. And those hobs aren't going to be very powerful. Pretty sure at Alinea they'd be using 220v models that can equal the real world heating power of a commercial range. These aren't those. 

 

But as additional burners, that can be put anywhere or stowed, I'm down with the idea. Maybe not this exact product (I don't care about hanging on the wall ... sticking it on a shelf is fine) but the portable hob concept is great. I can see this reducing the temptation to buy a big 6+ burner range. 

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Notes from the underbelly

EatingBen

EatingBen

Posted
Posted

I'm all for it, I've gas at home with a 4 burner top and I use it occasionally. Mostly I use my electric induction cook top that sits right next to my chopping board and work space. I'd love that space back for more useful things like storage or even just empty space to permanently put my pressure cooker and sous vide bath. 

 

We need functional "stuff space" you do stuff in it and it adapts to you not you having to work around it. Left handed people like things differently to me, kids need a different layout, elderly need something different as well. Kitchens as they are currently organised aren't designed for space adaptability. 

 

I just want the cook tops to have enough grunt in 1 or 2 plates to burn down a planet or two. 

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

Certainly kitchens in tight spaces, like an apt in NYC, could benefit from two induction units and a BSO in place of a range. But there will still be smoke issues with searing and frying. 

boilsover

boilsover

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

The idea is that your workspace is adaptable to whatever you need. If you need to cook something, grab a hob. If you don't get it out of the way. 

 

As the article says, this is how they've done it at Alinea since the beginning, and it works brilliantly for them. I'm not sold 100% substitute for a home range, for a few reasons. I use a range enough for it to justify some permanent real estate. And those hobs aren't going to be very powerful. Pretty sure at Alinea they'd be using 220v models that can equal the real world heating power of a commercial range. These aren't those. 

 

But as additional burners, that can be put anywhere or stowed, I'm down with the idea. Maybe not this exact product (I don't care about hanging on the wall ... sticking it on a shelf is fine) but the portable hob concept is great. I can see this reducing the temptation to buy a big 6+ burner range. 

 

Sorry, I think in general this is product aimed less at cooking than it is decor and design.  No serious restaurant is going to be firing regularly on a 110v/1500W hotplate that works like a tiny Murphy bed on 3 spindly legs.   There are plenty of stout commercial 220v/3600W single hobs that can be moved and stowed as needed.

 

Perhaps I'm outmoded, but the idea that a restaurant has to decide "If you need to cook" is outre.  Cooking stations will always have a place.

Porthos

Porthos

Posted
Posted
On 3/5/2019 at 8:04 AM, gfweb said:

I think that there was a hood power discussion on eG years ago

 

Maximum Suck

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Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

;

boilsover

boilsover

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2019 at 6:44 AM, lemniscate said:

 Tillreda, I think I'll pick one up on my next expedition there.   My Burton is showing its age badly.

 

Does a 1500 or 1800 watt single hob fulfill all your stovetop needs?  Is your Max Burton acceptably even-heating under your cookware?  If so, this makes sense. 

 

I have 3 different induction hotplates, and I would be very unhappy if I had to give up my ranges.  I think for 80% of what I do, 90% of the time, I could probably accept a double induction hob, and there are some good commercial versions that are stowable.  But I would want 220v/3500W, and I would definitely want it built in.

 

Everyone thinking of the "lab" concept should also consider case height and clearances.  The 220v commercial units worth getting are tall (mine stands >6" off the counter and has a 39" overhead clearance to combustibles).  They need big cases and wide clearances for ventillation/cooling/longevity reasons, so many home cooks would be disappointed to learn there isn't a lot of flexibility as to where you can put them.  6" above your existing counter, with a tall pot isn't fun or safe for a short cook; nor is building out all your counters 6" too low.   Even if you want to go this route, it makes sense to put the appliance on a shorter table or in a well space built into the regular-height countertop.  

 

In any case, I think most cooks, home or pro, would end up using the appliance in only one place, even if they had more locations to choose from.

 

Then there's home resale value to consider...       

Edited by boilsover (log)
EatingBen

EatingBen

Posted
Posted
On 3/7/2019 at 6:47 AM, boilsover said:

In any case, I think most cooks, home or pro, would end up using the appliance in only one place, even if they had more locations to choose from.

 

Then there's home resale value to consider...       

 

But that is the point. I use a portable induction cook top thats powerful enough to burn the seasoning off my cast iron cookware (having done it I was somewhat unhappy) but it is right next to where I prep everything which is in front of my sous vide setup and the whole thing is right next to my sink with all my needed tools and equipment infront of my which is infront of an enormous window. 

 

The stove top build into the kitchen is in the most irritating location with no real useful prep space next to the stove, everything has cramped and I find it annoying to use and only use it for mostly boiling water and things I leave unattended. 

 

But when I need more space I slide the portable induction plate further along and use it in a less convenient but still more useful location. My stove top is fixed, inflexible and immovable. 

 

As to the the resale, things change we used to build houses that would last 100 years, most wont last 50 anymore. As soon as we start to build things with longevity and quality I think most arguments will end up moot. 

boilsover

boilsover

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, EatingBen said:

As to the the resale, things change we used to build houses that would last 100 years, most wont last 50 anymore. As soon as we start to build things with longevity and quality I think most arguments will end up moot.  

 

I live in a 1907 Craftsman that has been a quality construction for 112 years.  My primary cooking appliance (I have 3 PICs, coil, radiant and gas, too) is a 1905 solid fuel range.  They both will last another 100.

 

A kitchen without a dedicated, stationary cooking appliance makes a house less attractive to most buyers, and therefore less valuable on the market.  It's like having a 4-bedroom house with a single half bath.

 

3 hours ago, EatingBen said:

I use a portable induction cook top thats powerful enough to burn the seasoning off my cast iron cookware

 

That's not saying a lot.  You can do that with a rechaud.  Try boiling 8L of water for pasta or blanching in less than an hour.  And do you never cook three things at once?

 

My advice is:  If you hate your range, get a different one or a cooktop.  If you don't have enough counterspace, reconfigure or get a different house or apartment.  IMO, it's not worth cooking on a cheap disposable POS if you don't have to.

paulraphael

paulraphael

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, boilsover said:

My advice is:  If you hate your range, get a different one or a cooktop.  If you don't have enough counterspace, reconfigure or get a different house or apartment.  IMO, it's not worth cooking on a cheap disposable POS if you don't have to.

 

Yeah, just get a different house. How about one in the South of France? Or Catalonia. Or both. Each with lots and lots of BTUs. And a wood-burning oven and a view of the sea. And horses. 

 

Treasured advice.

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Notes from the underbelly

EatingBen

EatingBen

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

Yeah, just get a different house. How about one in the South of France? Or Catalonia. Or both. Each with lots and lots of BTUs. And a wood-burning oven and a view of the sea. And horses. 

 

Treasured advice.

I am liking your idea of moving to South of France, I'll move there for a new kitchen or food or the weather the wine. I'd just move there if I had the chance! your a good ideas man!

 

I'm more perplexed on the mountain of assumptions he makes, my induction cook top is stunningly good and not a POS or that I hate my gas cooktop and replacing it would be the solution or that if I reconfigured my kitchen I'd somehow be happy with a new fixed layout. 

 

Arguments reliant upon assumptions and all that.

 

Now I am off to boil my 10L stock pot for some ridiculous reason, I'll be back in 15 minutes when it's at a rolling boil on my POS induction cook top! 

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boilsover

boilsover

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2019 at 4:37 PM, paulraphael said:

 

Yeah, just get a different house. How about one in the South of France? Or Catalonia. Or both. Each with lots and lots of BTUs. And a wood-burning oven and a view of the sea. And horses. 

 

Treasured advice.

Don't be snide.  Lots of people value cooking enough to move or remodel.  Lack of counterspace is a high level complaint, and shuffling PICs around trying to get it is a fool's errand.

 

If he wants the ascetic aesthetic, that's his choice.  But he'll pay for it at resale.

Edited by boilsover (log)
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