Non-stick pan suggestions

[blbst36]

 

28 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

There's a lot of romantic hogwash about cleaning cast iron. Just grab a regular scrub sponge and some dishwashing detergent and hot water and scrub until it's clean. 

 

If this does any damage at all to the seasoning, then the pan wasn't really seasoned. To get seasoning off, you need chemicals the equivalent of dishwasher detergent or oven cleaner, or abrasives the equivalent of sandpaper. I've removed seasoning from manky old pans ... it took two days soaking in a cocktail of dishwasher detergent and draino. 

 

That "seasoning" is a matrix of polymerized oil and carbonized oil. Polymer=plastic. Tough and nasty stuff. Which is why you want to apply it in nice thin even coats in the first place, because you'll suffer trying to get any off. 

 

Incidentally, this is one reason to be careful using teflon pans on any kind of high heat, especially if you're using an oil that's high in unsaturated fats (canola, safflower, sunflower, etc.). If any of that oil polymerizes on the teflon, you may never get it off. I don't know if there's anything that will attack the polymerized oil that won't attack the teflon coating harder. If anyone knows, please share.

 

One problem I've discovered with using non-stick pans solely for what they're do best is that I end up using mine about twice a year ... the rest of the time it's on a wire shelf, where, thanks to my terrible range hood, it gets a mist of airborn oil every time I saute something. When I looked at it the other day, the oil had oxidized to the point where it wouldn't come off with hand washing detergent. It eventually came off off after soaking for an hour in a solution of dishwasher detergent. I don't know if this is harmful to the coating. Luckily, it's a  $15 pan (see above!)

 

Really?  If I could use soap, it would make it much easier.  

 

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

I'm baffled as to why why cast iron would be difficult to clean?  I have more problems cleaning my teeth.

 

I clean my cast iron woks and skillet more quickly, but have a few more than four teeth..

Beats me.  No matter what, I sit there and scrub and scrub and scrub and there's always a layer of stuff greasy stuff left behind.  It's all over my hands all over the scrubbing utensil, etc.  It's probably something I am doing wrong.

Edited March 20, 2018 by blbst36 (log)

[paulraphael]

1 minute ago, blbst36 said:

 

Really?  If I could use soap, it would make it much easier.  

 

Beats me.  No matter what, I sit there and scrub and scrub and scrub and there's always a layer of stuff greasy stuff left behind.  It's all over my hands all over the scrubbing utensil, etc.  It's probably something I am doing wrong.

 

 

Yeah, soap! Detergent! Scrub sponge! Don't baby it.

[Anna N]

25 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

Yeah, soap! Detergent! Scrub sponge! Don't baby it.

These or similar can often prove useful in removing the guck. 

[btbyrd]

There are many good ways to clean cast iron and carbon steel, but none of them can begin to compare to the ease and joy of cleaning a Teflon coated pan. And that is the only reason I own Teflon.

 

If you're worried that your cast iron or carbon steel has thick layers of irremovable crud on it, scour the pan with a paper towel and a cup of kosher salt. Really grind the crystals in there. Then scrub with sponge and soapy water, rinse clean, and do a round of reseasoning. There's no need to avoid soap with CI and CS. There is a need to know how to season.

 

Things I've never had to bother about with a Teflon pan.

[gfweb]

Not a big non-stick fan. I have two that gather dust.

I use steel eg Darto/Matfer for every nonstick application I can think of except scrambled eggs. Even Omelets slide right off the steel so long as I keep it seasoned

[paulraphael]

I think of cast iron and spun steel as being in a separate category from teflon pans. The seasoning on iron/steel does offer some stick resistance, but with everything I ever cook besides eggs (which is rare) sticking is a non-issue. If stuff sticks to stainless steel, 99 times out of 100 this is a technique issue, not a pan issue. You should be able to cook the most delicate fish, skin on, on a stainless steel surface. It's not a mindless exercise, like it would be on teflon, but that's kind of the point: if you can do it on bare steel without sticking, you know your technique is solid, and the chances are decent that you'll cook the fish well. Teflon doesn't enforce discipline like that, and it offeres no such assurances. 

 

Unlike teflon, cast iron and spun steel excell at high heat cooking, where thermal mass and getting a good sear are priorities. This is what teflon pans do worst. 

 

Other materials are better than both of these for some kinds of cooking. 

[Dave the Cook]

16 hours ago, boilsover said:

 

  Basically, the idea is that the floor of the pan is uncoated SS, and the sidewalls are done in PTFE.  This tracks with the market research that most people buy nonstick for ease of cleaning (the polymerized fats from spatter being a Royal PITA).  However, an added benefit is longevity--you can use metal utensils AND the lining doesn't toast as easily.

 

  It's not selling very well because people think it's weird.  I sort of agree, but then the idea sort of makes sense.  At least it's a better grade of pan with the prospect of lasting longer...

 

Cheers!

 

I've been cooking for 55+ years, and teaching home cooks for the last ten, and I've never heard anyone express a desire for anything as ridiculous as this.

 

3 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

Yeah, soap! Detergent! Scrub sponge! Don't baby it.

 

What I tell students is that if you treat cast-iron like non-stick, you'll be fine (it's a simplistic rule, but it stays in their heads.) Then I tell them that if that doesn't get their pans clean, or if it strips off the seasoning, then they haven't seasoned properly.

 

41 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

You should be able to cook the most delicate fish, skin on, on a stainless steel surface. It's not a mindless exercise, like it would be on teflon, but that's kind of the point: if you can do it on bare steel without sticking, you know your technique is solid, and the chances are decent that you'll cook the fish well. Teflon doesn't enforce discipline like that, and it offeres no such assurances. 

 

Yes.

 

+ + +

 

By all means, if you're near a restaurant supply store or an Ikea, avail yourself. Otherwise, we've found places like Tuesday Morning or HomeGoods to be decent sources for non-stick cookware. 

[kayb]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

I think of cast iron and spun steel as being in a separate category from teflon pans. The seasoning on iron/steel does offer some stick resistance, but with everything I ever cook besides eggs (which is rare) sticking is a non-issue. If stuff sticks to stainless steel, 99 times out of 100 this is a technique issue, not a pan issue. You should be able to cook the most delicate fish, skin on, on a stainless steel surface. It's not a mindless exercise, like it would be on teflon, but that's kind of the point: if you can do it on bare steel without sticking, you know your technique is solid, and the chances are decent that you'll cook the fish well. Teflon doesn't enforce discipline like that, and it offeres no such assurances. 

 

 

OK. I'll bite. My big "sticking" issue is, as I mentioned, with potatoes. My technique is to saute' onions over medium to medium high heat  first, stirring  to keep them from burning, and then adding potatoes when they've softened. I spread them out, leave them still until they should have had time to develop some browning, then I attempt to turn. And they HAVE, in fact, developed some browning, which sticks to the bottom of the pan. What am I doing wrong?

 

I will concede my Lodge carbon steel pans may not yet be adequately seasoned, but my cast iron is smoother than a baby's bottom, and I can fry eggs in it with no problems. But potatoes stick.

 

How should I be doing it? Specifically, for hash browns or home fries? Does not seem to matter if I am using par-cooked (for hash browns) or raw (for home fries). I typcially use Yukon Golds.

[paulraphael]

4 minutes ago, kayb said:

 

OK. I'll bite. My big "sticking" issue is, as I mentioned, with potatoes. My technique is to saute' onions over medium to medium high heat  first, stirring  to keep them from burning, and then adding potatoes when they've softened. I spread them out, leave them still until they should have had time to develop some browning, then I attempt to turn. And they HAVE, in fact, developed some browning, which sticks to the bottom of the pan. What am I doing wrong?

 

I will concede my Lodge carbon steel pans may not yet be adequately seasoned, but my cast iron is smoother than a baby's bottom, and I can fry eggs in it with no problems. But potatoes stick.

 

How should I be doing it? Specifically, for hash browns or home fries? Does not seem to matter if I am using par-cooked (for hash browns) or raw (for home fries). I typcially use Yukon Golds.

 

I haven't made hash browns since before I knew what I was doing, but in theory the technique should be the same as with protein.

 

1. Preheat the pan. Hot. 425-450°F on the highest heat your range can pump out

2. Have your prepped potatoes ready and pat them as dry as possible with a paper towel

3. Pour enough oil into the pan to generously cover the bottom. Ideally a refined oil with a high smoke point.

4. Put the potatoes in the pan in a single layer. Don't crowd the pan ... Give them room so steam can escape. The weaker your range, the fewer potatoes you want to put in. You don't want the food to suck so much energy out that the temperature drops too far.

5. Don't touch anything. Let the potatoes cook in place. When they're adequately brown, they should release.

6. Turn them. They're more likely to stick on subsequent sides, because moisture may have come to the surface and the pan may have lost heat. But it shouldn't be too bad.

7. If anything sticks, you'll just end up with some crispy browend deliciousness that you can eithe scrape off with a spatula and toss in with the rest of the potatoes, or deglaze as if you're making a pan sauce from meat drippings.

[gfweb]

2 hours ago, kayb said:

 

OK. I'll bite. My big "sticking" issue is, as I mentioned, with potatoes. My technique is to saute' onions over medium to medium high heat  first, stirring  to keep them from burning, and then adding potatoes when they've softened. I spread them out, leave them still until they should have had time to develop some browning, then I attempt to turn. And they HAVE, in fact, developed some browning, which sticks to the bottom of the pan. What am I doing wrong?

 

I will concede my Lodge carbon steel pans may not yet be adequately seasoned, but my cast iron is smoother than a baby's bottom, and I can fry eggs in it with no problems. But potatoes stick.

 

How should I be doing it? Specifically, for hash browns or home fries? Does not seem to matter if I am using par-cooked (for hash browns) or raw (for home fries). I typcially use Yukon Golds.

I'd do it backwards. Potatoes first in a hot pre-oiled pan...gotta be real hot... cook potatoes on one side (I assume slices).. when browned they'll release (if the pan was HOT when oiled)..add oil for the onions and add the onions while side 2 of the potatoes finishes.

[Smokeydoke]

2 hours ago, Dave the Cook said:

 

I've been cooking for 55+ years, and teaching home cooks for the last ten, and I've never heard anyone express a desire for anything as ridiculous as this.

 

 I didn't want to say anything.... but you read my mind.

 

If anything, I'd think people would want the bottom non-stick, for omelettes and such... the only reason I use my non-stick.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Smokeydoke (log)

[kayb]

49 minutes ago, gfweb said:

I'd do it backwards. Potatoes first in a hot pre-oiled pan...gotta be real hot... cook potatoes on one side (I assume slices).. when browned they'll release (if the pan was HOT when oiled)..add oil for the onions and add the onions while side 2 of the potatoes finishes.

 

OK. Trying that next time. Will see what it does.

 

[boilsover]

4 hours ago, Dave the Cook said:

I've been cooking for 55+ years, and teaching home cooks for the last ten, and I've never heard anyone express a desire for anything as ridiculous as this.

 

Well then, you might not be a good fit in All-Clad's product development department.  All I can tell you is fewer people buy nonstick for its food release than buy it for ease of cleaning.  Ask around in WalMart and Target...  

 

Since you think this idea is ridiculous, what do you think of All-Clad's d3 Armor?  https://www.all-clad.com/Cookware/Fry-Pans/d3-ARMOR®-12"-Fry-Pan-/p/8701005404

FYI, they're not alone:  https://fisslerusa.com/products/fry-pans/crispy-steelux-premium-fry-pan 

[Smokeydoke]

LOL. I knew this would happen.

 

Honestly, I have no dog in this fight, which is why I never answered OP. I am firmly in the no non-stick camp. Except for omelettes, I still cook my omelettes in non-stick.

[boilsover]

3 minutes ago, Smokeydoke said:

LOL. I knew this would happen.

 

Somehow, I always knew I was prescient...

[paulraphael]

4 hours ago, Dave the Cook said:

 

I've been cooking for 55+ years, and teaching home cooks for the last ten, and I've never heard anyone express a desire for anything as ridiculous as this.

 

 

You're lucky enough to to be around people who care about learning. 

 

I don't know if anything would surprise me anymore. But it depresses me when companies like All-Clad turn cynical, and let themselves be driven by their marketing departments. They end up pandering to the whims of people who don't care to learn anything. It's the commerce version of populism.

[boilsover]

7 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

But it depresses me when companies like All-Clad turn cynical, and let themselves be driven by their marketing departments.

 

This wasn't Marketing.  Those guys knew this two-tone deal was a bad idea.

 

To me, the overarching depressing thing about All-Clad is that there's so much substantive improvement they could do (handles, truly thick clad and disk pieces, actually putting meaningful thickness of copper in CopperCore, etc.)  but don't.  The gimmick-y names they give pans, now THAT's on Marketing.   

[gfweb]

1 hour ago, boilsover said:

 

Well then, you might not be a good fit in All-Clad's product development department.  All I can tell you is fewer people buy nonstick for its food release than buy it for ease of cleaning.  Ask around in WalMart and Target...  

 

Since you think this idea is ridiculous, what do you think of All-Clad's d3 Armor?  https://www.all-clad.com/Cookware/Fry-Pans/d3-ARMOR®-12"-Fry-Pan-/p/8701005404

FYI, they're not alone:  https://fisslerusa.com/products/fry-pans/crispy-steelux-premium-fry-pan 

 

So nonstick is for cleaning ease and not food release?  Right. That's just stupid. Maybe the pan-buying public is clueless, but I doubt it. Maybe All Clad has some idiots In marketing. 

[paulraphael]

What happens if you step on a non-stick pan with your culinary non-slip shoes?

[boilsover]

48 minutes ago, gfweb said:

So nonstick is for cleaning ease and not food release?

 

Cleaning ease sells more nonstick than food release, yes, odd as that sounds.  What it's "for" is beside the point, which is selling pans.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, boilsover said:

 

Well then, you might not be a good fit in All-Clad's product development department.  All I can tell you is fewer people buy nonstick for its food release than buy it for ease of cleaning.  Ask around in WalMart and Target...  

 

Since you think this idea is ridiculous, what do you think of All-Clad's d3 Armor?  https://www.all-clad.com/Cookware/Fry-Pans/d3-ARMOR®-12"-Fry-Pan-/p/8701005404

FYI, they're not alone:  https://fisslerusa.com/products/fry-pans/crispy-steelux-premium-fry-pan 

 

I don't see your point about Fissler.  My Fissler stainless steel pans clean up easier than any other stainless steel pans I own.  I don't equate non-stick with ease of cleaning but then the only non-stick pan I have is the liner for my rice cooker.

 

 

[mgaretz]

Almost all my pans are All Clad - most are all stainless but I have had two non-stick pans for the last 9 years and they still work and release fine.  I use them for eggs, potatoes and hash.  I recently bought a small, 8" non-stick WS by All- Clad pan just for doing an egg or two.  It's anodized aluminum like the Costco set I bought before I got the All Clad.  So far I like the WS pan and it wasn't expensive.

 

 

[boilsover]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I don't see your point about Fissler. 

 

The point is that: (a) All-Clad does other apparently crazy things (one other being d3 Armor); and (b) Maybe we should reconsider pronouncing things as ridiculous if Fissler and others are also doing it. 

[Porthos]

I bought a set of the Bialetti (SP?) non-stick from Costco years ago. I won't know how long they would have held up because, 1) The aluminum was too soft and another family member managed to drop pieces and that took them out-of-round, and 2) 10+ years ago we bought a set of Vollrath PRO-HG non-stick cookware because the ceramic/titanium non-stick coating can take much higher heat without the toxic fumes worry (I'm a high-heat cook) and they are NSF-rated (I may not run a commercial kitchen but I have a preference for NSF-rated equipment). The Vollrath PRO-HG comes with a 25-year warranty but I'll never see 25 years from the pans I use the most, but I can live with that. YMMV.

[gfweb]

Companies introduce new models for various reasons only some of which are intended to be innovations.  They come out with more versions to get more shelf space (do dogs really need 5 flavors of canned food?)...or to have something to promote...or to reach a new demographic...or because somebody else comes out with it.