The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Ann_T]

I don't want to argue with you, but a few years ago I confirmed with Rogers that the protein was over 13%.    It is a high protein bread flour.  11.7 is not considered high protein.  

 

 

 

[dtremit]

39 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

I don't want to argue with you, but a few years ago I confirmed with Rogers that the protein was over 13%.    It is a high protein bread flour.  11.7 is not considered high protein.  

 

I didn't mean that 11.7% was a high protein flour -- just that it was higher than usual for an all purpose flour. 13% is more unusual still.

 

Going back to your original post, you were saying people ask you whether you need to use bread flour. Obviously not -- your bread is stunning. I'm just saying someone who buys a bag of Gold Medal isn't likely to get the same results -- let alone one of the lower protein "AP" flours like White Lily.

[Ann_T]

@dtremit, I agree.  In fact when we lived in the US, I tried all the various grocery store flours and didn't have the same results so every time I went back over the border I would bring back Canadian flour.   

[lindag]

13 hours ago, Ann_T said:

@dtremit, I agree.  In fact when we lived in the US, I tried all the various grocery store flours and didn't have the same results so every time I went back over the border I would bring back Canadian flour.   

King Arthur's AP is said to be a higher protein than most, do you know what percent it is?

I keep a supply of  their bread flour on hand (used to be named Sir Lancelot but now is just called bread flour).

Edited May 8, 2019 by lindag (log)

[Ann_T]

1 hour ago, lindag said:

King Arthur's AP is said to be a higher protein than most, do you know what percent it is?

I keep a supply of  their bread on hand (used to be named Sir Lancelot but now is just called bread flour).

 @lindag, according to their website their all purpose flour has just 11.7%.  Even their bread flour is described as having  just 12.7. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Lancelot is 14 percent...

 

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/products.html

 

 

[ElsieD]

Here in Canada, Robin Hood bread flour is 13% protein while their all purpose flour, both bleached and unbleached are 12%.

[jimb0]

I really baked this in too large a vessel, but it turned out well, if slightly misshapen. Extended but one-day room temp ferment, 76% hydration, 2.3% salt, 0.26% yeast, seeded with lactic acid bacteria. Internal temp was around 208°F when I pulled it. 

 

 

[kayb]

Anyone got a source for a Pullman pan that makes a cocktail sized loaf? Something I read indicates one can get one that is 13 x 3 x 3, and that would be fine. I just can't find a source.

[dtremit]

11 hours ago, kayb said:

Anyone got a source for a Pullman pan that makes a cocktail sized loaf? Something I read indicates one can get one that is 13 x 3 x 3, and that would be fine. I just can't find a source.

 

Matfer makes some pans with a 3" x 3.5" cross section, but the longest seems to be ~10":

 

https://www.matferbourgeatusa.com/exopan-bread-mold-with-lid-6

https://www.matferbourgeatusa.com/exoglass-bread-mold-with-stainless-steel-lid-7

[kayb]

Thank you! I'm fine with the shorter one.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I didn't bake last week.  Sandwiches on 12 day bread have their charms.  Taste may not be one of them.  Anyhow...

 

 

 

 

[Ann_T]

On 5/11/2019 at 6:33 PM, kayb said:

Anyone got a source for a Pullman pan that makes a cocktail sized loaf? Something I read indicates one can get one that is 13 x 3 x 3, and that would be fine. I just can't find a source.

 

@kayb

I bought this one recently.  It is made by Gobel.

I found for half price .  I would not have paid what it is listed for on that website

 

Used it this morning to make cocktail rye.  

Rye dough made yesterday and baked today.

One Pullman cocktail loaf and

one regular rye loaf.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Ann_T (log)

[jimb0]

Three-day cold ferment turned into a quick supper focaccia. Focacci...ish? Out of olive oil, refined avocado worked as a sub. 

 

 

[Smithy]

I need some starter feedback. I've been following the rye starter instruction here on @Ann_T's blog. It started out as easily as advertised. The second feeding, or maybe it was the third, took off like a rocket.

 

 

"Oh my," I exclaimed, "this is easy!" I don't remember, actually, whether the photo above is from when I fed it with all-purpose flour, in anticipation of converting the starter, or when I was still using all rye. I do know that the photo was taken less than 12 hours after feeding. The rubber band marks the initial level after feeding.

 

A day or so after that, with regular feedings of all--purpose flour, the starter lost its oomph.  I've tried refreshing it again with rye, and it still doesn't have much go. This is it after 12 hours or so:

 

 

There is a little bit of bubbling, and the smell is fine, but it isn't doing much. I've made a batch of bread with it and a boost of yeast, but that's another post. Here are my questions:

1. What might I have done wrong? It's been sitting in the same place, and all the flours are organic.
2. Should I bother trying to revive it, or simply start over? Starting over doesn't take much material or time, but I'm puzzled about its behavior.
3. If I should try to get it going, what should I do?

[Smithy]

I made a batch of bread yesterday using @Ann_T' instructions for baking bread with a new sourdough starter. The starter in question was the starter above. It showed a bit more activity yesterday than it does now, but not nearly as much as in the first photo shown above, so I used yeast to help it along. The flour was a combination of King Arthur bread flour and the special Barrio Blend flour mix I bought last spring in Tucson. I really like this flour blend a lot.

 

Whether it was the sourdough starter, the flour, or a combination of the two I don't know, but the flavor is excellent. What I'm not happy about is the shape. This dough was more slack than I've have expected at 75% hydration. I made the biga on Thursday night and the dough on Friday morning, then baked Friday evening. 

 

 

I can think of several possibilities of where I went wrong with regard to making a nice, round, well-puffed boule.

• I used the stretch-and-fold method, but maybe I needed to knead it a lot before I started that process. (Does anyone do that? It seems to me that doing more kneading than necessary to get a good mix would be unnecessary.)
• Maybe I needed to work it more during the shaping. @Anna N once posted a link to a video showing how to get a really tight skin on the boule, and I still don't seem to have the technique. (Actually, my dough didn't look very different from what's shown in that video, but I'll bet his puffed up more!)
• Or maybe my oven wasn't hot enough (preheated to 450F for at least an hour; baking stones on bottom and top shelves; bread went onto the middle rack, not on a stone).
• Maybe I needed more steam.
• Maybe it's all of the above, or something I haven't even considered.

 

I only used half the batch yesterday; the rest is holding, and presumably doing a slow ferment, in the outside refrigerator until tomorrow. What should I try with that half?

Edited May 18, 2019 by Smithy
Clarified parenthetical comment (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

I stole this idea from @jimb0.

 

 

[lindag]

Today's recipe is KAF's Vermont whole wheat honey oatmeal .

Just out of the oven it smells wonderful.  Destined for sandwiches.

 

ETA:  Forgot to post my picture.

Edited May 18, 2019 by lindag (log)

[jimb0]

Left them to proof a bit in too warm a spot, so there was a fair amount of butter leakage pre-bake, which you can see a bit in the shape and texture. Still lovely and salty and crunchy and buttery, though. 

 

 

[Ann_T]

10 hours ago, Smithy said:

I need some starter feedback. I've been following the rye starter instruction here on @Ann_T's blog. It started out as easily as advertised. The second feeding, or maybe it was the third, took off like a rocket.

 

 

"Oh my," I exclaimed, "this is easy!" I don't remember, actually, whether the photo above is from when I fed it with all-purpose flour, in anticipation of converting the starter, or when I was still using all rye. I do know that the photo was taken less than 12 hours after feeding. The rubber band marks the initial level after feeding.

 

A day or so after that, with regular feedings of all--purpose flour, the starter lost its oomph.  I've tried refreshing it again with rye, and it still doesn't have much go. This is it after 12 hours or so:

 

 

There is a little bit of bubbling, and the smell is fine, but it isn't doing much. I've made a batch of bread with it and a boost of yeast, but that's another post. Here are my questions:

1. What might I have done wrong? It's been sitting in the same place, and all the flours are organic.
2. Should I bother trying to revive it, or simply start over? Starting over doesn't take much material or time, but I'm puzzled about its behavior.
3. If I should try to get it going, what should I do?

Wow @Smithy, your starter was doing amazing.   My only though is that you should have continued to feed it with whatever rye you were using. Your starter obviously loved it.    In the past I have spun off a white starter using the Roger's Silver Star bread flour but I always kept the Rye starter going.   I wouldn't suggest feeding with just an all purpose flour.    This time around I decided to only feed one starter and only with the rye.        The rye starter gets added to white flour and doesn't really add much in the way of a rye taste, just the sourdough taste.    And if you are making sourdough, it is this flavour that you are going for.   

 

I would measure out 6 ounces of your starter and feed it again with three ounces of rye and three ounces of bottled water.   It will probably bounce back.  Then continue to feed it with rye. 

[rotuts]

@JoNorvelleWalker

 

was the focaccia baked in the CSO ?

 

if so , what sort of pan did you use ?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, rotuts said:

@JoNorvelleWalker

 

was the focaccia baked in the CSO ?

 

if so , what sort of pan did you use ?

 

Of course I baked the focaccia in the CSO.

TeamFar Toaster Oven Tray and Rack Set

 

I use this little pan a lot but not usually in the CSO.

 

[rotuts]

I thought Id post this here, rather than start a new topic.
 

I looked at King Aurthur Flour for a certain item,  $ 169 .  it was out of stock

 

so I called and was directed to a page there that had a newer version.  so I though Id order it

 

I gagged when they said the shipping charges were way way over 25 $$.  I then looked aournd

 

and found it at

 

Breadtopia

 

for $ 15 dollars less and free shipping.

 

I really like KAF.   Ive been to their fine store in VT many times in the past.

 

but unapologetically , they still charge shipping by the total amount in your cart.

 

like the first days of the internet

 

so keep that in mind.

[dtremit]

5 minutes ago, rotuts said:

I really like KAF.   Ive been to their fine store in VT many times in the past.

but unapologetically , they still charge shipping by the total amount in your cart.

 

I understand shipping is a significant cost for retailers, especially small ones -- but KAF charges a premium for nearly everything already, which makes the high shipping charges hard to stomach. For things I can't easily source elsewhere, I tend to wait for one of their free shipping specials.

 

Currently trying to find another source for their "Bakers Special Dry Milk" -- have seen suggestions that any non-instant dry milk would be the same thing. Probably going to try some from Barry Farm (via Amazon) and see if I get the same results.

[Isabelle Prescott]

A quote from The Fresh Loaf:

 

"Bakers use the "high heat dry milk" to get assurance of the reproducibility of the rise of their bread. The high temperature in the process changes the glutathione to a compound that will not affect the gluten structure. Glutathione reacts with the gluten to reduce the gluten structure so that the dough does not rise as much as it might.
You can get the same effect by using milk that has been scalded for ten minutes, i.e. temperature held at 190°F for 10 minutes, then cooled to a safe temperature, say 85°F. You can mix ordinary dry milk with water and scald that, if you wish.
You can make great bread with or without scalding your milk. But scalding will deactivate the glutathione in the milk. If you deactivate the glutathione, the loaf will have, at least, somewhat better height. That doesn't mean that using non-scalded milk gives you unacceptable height -- but there's at least some difference. You as the baker get to decide whether it is worth it."