Pete Wells slams Per Se

[dcarch]

No one seems to realize that in NYC they have to pay very high rent.

 

dcarch

[KennethT]

I think lots of people realize that... that's not the point.  Everyone living here realizes the 'NYC surcharge' - we pay more for practically everything (except for people in Australia - I gather it's even worse there). 

 

The point is that there is a perceived base level of value... as restaurants get more expensive (relative to other restaurants in NYC), people have higher expectations and consequently, disappointment if the restaurant cannot deliver the same level of value as it had before the price increase.  Some restaurants are able to increase prices, but increase the experience as well, which is generally well received - Sutton makes the example of Momofuku Ko...

[Shalmanese]

6 hours ago, Qwerty said:

Ah yes, the inevitable tear down after the build up. Took longer than expected. Que the "I knew it was going downhill last 3 times I ate there" and the "Thomas Keller must be slipping" comments from the Can't Do and Never Was brigades. I'm sure I already missed some. The world LOVES this kind of stuff. 

 

There's nothing snobby eaters like more than a good take down piece--except maybe claiming that they knew it all along. 

 

 

The fact that the Eater review and the NYT review, published 12 months apart both highlighted a couple of common, specific flaws (the cheese being served cold and the lobster being tough) indicates to me genuine issues with the restaurant rather than a desire to spin out pageviews. These are very basic mistakes that you would not expect a restaurant of this calibre to make. The fact that it was made and nobody spotted and fixed them is highly troubling.

[AlaMoi]

I am not a snobby eater.  either the food is superb, good, passable or not good.  and, that has zip comma zilch to do with "price" - a rotten tasting $185 chunk of fillet of yuk does not taste better than an $18 rotten tasting chunk at the local "steak house"

 

wines - I have a simple approach:  I like it or I don't like it.   and I'll never like it more or less because of its fruity nose or its horsepucky finish....

 

"what are the odds he was even there for those evenings ? "
seriously?  one can only expect the advertised if the BigWheel is in the House?

"Can you support those opinions in a way more substantial . . ."
my wallet used to be able to do that, after our visit my wallet could only support a "WTF? comma over"

 

I don't read or follow food critics - any of them.  a place has a reputation, I will try it.  but not that one again.

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by AlaMoi (log)

[haresfur]

The price increase issue is an interesting bit of psychology. You can't eat a 2009 Per Se meal today, the old prices shouldn't really matter. Value for dollar can't increase forever, eventually you run out of people to screw out of their share. I suppose it is good to leave some room to improve, or at least make things different. But maybe as a place matures it needs to morph from the new and exciting to the trusted and true.

[rotuts]

""     "what are the odds he was even there for those evenings ? "  """

 

When the Cat's away, ......

 

that's all.

 

whether you agree or not, the head chef generally inspires a bit of terror

[SLB]

I have been surprised at how dramatic the difference can be.

[AlaMoi]

if you're paying that kind of money, the restaurant should afford themselves multiple large cats - with stripes and large fangs - to keep the mouse staff in order.

 

it may fly at the corner diner - it's completely unacceptable at the Per Se level. 

[rotuts]

still .............

 

they did not leave.

[cdh]

13 minutes ago, rotuts said:

still .............

 

they did not leave.

That is a very interesting dilemma at a place like that... where there is just a set price for a tasting menu, how do you get up and walk out halfway through and still settle your bill?  Drop some cash on the table and dare them to come back at you with a call to the cops for theft of services if they think the cash is not enough?  I'd be interested to see how that plays out... but probably not as the NYT food critic.

[haresfur]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

still .............

 

they did not leave.

 

He's a food critic. His job is to tough it out, wait for the wine glasses to be filled, and eat fancy food that may taste ok but doesn't meet expectations. It's rough but someone has to do it. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by haresfur (log)

[rotuts]

nope.

 

nope  nope  nope

 

they know the price.

 

you say, please, here is out credit card

 

"Things" have come up  we will have to leave.

 

thank  you.

 

bye bye

 

the key is the bong water

 

if it was indeed bong water, after the other " things "

 

you just leave.  you of course pay.  after all its not your money ?  eh ?

 

better story that way.  

 

however, 

 

2 stars for Bong Water ?

 

Q.E.D

Edited January 15, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[cdh]

nope, nope nope yourself.  You're nuts if you think the right thing to do is experience half a meal at subpar standard, but pay for the whole thing then walk out.  Particularly as a food critic.

Edited January 15, 2016 by cdh (log)

[rotuts]

the NYTimes is paying

 

for Bong Water

 

they pay for nothing.

 

""   subpar standard  "" 

 

would be Warm Vomit

 

perhaps Veloutee, in none of those little cones.

 

no one stays for Bong Water

 

no one.

 

of course, you are quite polite about it

 

at the time

Edited January 15, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I seldom dine at restaurants, let alone at world class restaurants.  What I have noticed at the finer restaurants -- whatever the food -- the waitstaff are invisible until you need them, then they appear out of nowhere to assist.  It sounds like Per Se wasn't it.

 

But to have poor food and poor service, I would rather eat at home.  And purchase another case of rum.

[haresfur]

6 hours ago, cdh said:

That is a very interesting dilemma at a place like that... where there is just a set price for a tasting menu, how do you get up and walk out halfway through and still settle your bill?  Drop some cash on the table and dare them to come back at you with a call to the cops for theft of services if they think the cash is not enough?  I'd be interested to see how that plays out... but probably not as the NYT food critic.

 

I suppose the mature way to deal with it would be to get up from the table, find someone in charge and quietly let them know things are going to heck. That would give them the chance to try to salvage the rest of the meal - a win-win (or perhaps a draw). It would also give them a chance to make financial accommodations if they see fit. But it would have to be really far below acceptable for me to think you could walk out without paying at any place. 

[rotuts]

of course you pay.

 

did someone suggest otherwise ?

 

I missed it.

[weinoo]

On 1/13/2016 at 10:37 PM, Kim Shook said:

As I said in response to a friend's FB post:  Saw this. I'm surprised. He doesn't seem to do a lot of extraneous stuff - TV, magazines, etc. He's got restaurants and cookbooks. Period. And a rep as maybe THE top chef in the US. You'd think he'd keep a really close watch on his restaurants.

 

That's not all he does...

 

Finesse

[huiray]

Keller responds without actually saying anything.

http://ny.eater.com/2016/1/28/10858508/thomas-keller-per-se-response 

 

Some commentary, as reported by eater.com

http://www.eater.com/2016/1/13/10760082/per-se-review-new-york-times-twitter 

 

 

[MelissaH]

@KennethT gets at an interesting point: how would the restaurant have been rated, had the price tag not been astronomical?

[AlaMoi]

14 minutes ago, MelissaH said:

@KennethT gets at an interesting point: how would the restaurant have been rated, had the price tag not been astronomical?

so, lemme unnerstood this....

 

a restaurant that charges a premium price for excellent food and excellent service may not be diss'ed when the food and the service is neither?

 

[gfweb]

The price of a Per Se meal defines the standard it wants to be held-to. Charge that much...expect scrutiny.

[rotuts]

interesting points.

 

however, 

 

when served bong water, one politely settles the bill, and leaves.  

 

this is for all price points.

 

now  free bong water .....

[paulraphael]

On January 28, 2016 at 1:58 PM, huiray said:

Keller responds without actually saying anything.

http://ny.eater.com/2016/1/28/10858508/thomas-keller-per-se-response 

 

 

In the comment thread there's some interesting speculation by a former Keller bar manager.

[rotuts]

PR

 

thank you for finding this article, and pointing me to it.

 

the article itself and the following comments ring true and spot on.

 

Of course, I can be as much of a weasel as anyone else   at rare times.  A response that would have caused a massive chortle on my part

 

might have been good for my Sinuses, ....

 

I actually hope this becomes a wake up call for Talent that's Lost its Way

 

and no, you do not fire anyone, you help them find The Light again.

 

if they can't, then that's on You.

 

and no, I do not eat at started restaurants.  I have been to many that suited me perfectly. they had no stars

 

indeed I had lunch I covered myself twice at The Four Seasons, in the room with the Olympic Pool

 

I had the feeling they treated me exactly the same as all others in that room, with a very subtle Plus.

 

Because they were pleased I was able to eat there, and they understood that it was unlikely that I'd become A Regular.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by rotuts (log)