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Darienne

Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

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Since Smithy's comment, I have been thinking about this (obviously 1st world) problem with the Orange Pineapple ice cream I want to make and I have a further question for the ice cream experts ...

 

If I make a standard custard base and then I mix up the 'flavourings' element it will essentially be quite liquid-y and add that to the cooled custard base, will it dilute the custard too much and affect the ability of the custard to freeze smoothly? The flavourings part may include some pineapple solids but even if I reduce a juice mix for the rest there will be some liquid I imagine. If that is going to be the case, should I pick a custard that includes some cornstarch maybe?

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@Deryn I'm not sure I can be of much help -- but I'm reasonably certain that if you add much liquid "flavoring" to the custard you'll get a hard, icy result.

 

If I were to try pineapple orange as a flavor, I would pressure infuse chunks of cooked pineapple and fresh orange with cream in an iSi.  Then strain the flavored cream.  But to me pineapple orange sounds appetizing as sherbet, not so much as ice cream.

 

Nonetheless I understand your friend wants ice cream.  You might check with her if what she has in mind is custard based or not.

 

Another possibility if she does not want custard:  macerate mashed cooked pineapple and fresh orange in sweetened cream and freeze.  I used to do this quite successfully with peaches to make a Philadelphia ice cream.

 

 

Edit:  I grew up in Philadelphia.

 

 


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

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JoNorvelleWalker - I agree with you about it sounding more appetizing as a sherbet but, this is a very small town and I noticed a box of what I think is the very ice cream she craves at the tiny grocery the other day. I have never even seen sherbet in the store and this woman hasn't been more than a couple of hundred miles from here since the day she was born so I am pretty sure she has never tried sherbet in her life either. They probably ordered a couple just for her but I would bet that she is not the only local who likes this stuff. It is definitely NOT a premium brand of ice cream though. And she is definitely not a 'gourmet eater' I can tell you.

 

I read the label and could not bring myself to buy that last box to taste it for myself so I would know better what I am aiming for. I think though that I may have had something like it when I was a child so I am drawing a bit from taste/texture memory to imagine what it tastes like. If I had to guess ... the orange part really does taste more like Orange Crush than fresh or concentrated OJ but I can't bring myself to use that stuff.

 

She is 89 and I don't think she has ever made ice cream in her life - and I doubt she would know whether a custard base is what she wants. I would like to have her experience something a little more posh and creamy (hopefully with more taste from real ingredients not 'artificial flavourings') but I don't want to venture too far from what she knows either or she may not even try it.

 

Yes, I may try the ISI infusion thing but I definitely would like to include some pineapple bits as well. I will have to squeeze them out really well though I think - I am sure you are right about the icy result if I don't. Hopefully she will love it and eat it all at one go (or invite friends or her great-grandkids over) so it won't linger long in the freezer. And, I think I will use canned crushed, not fresh, horrible as that may sound, because it is a more familiar taste to her and I also don't know whether the enzymes in fresh pineapple would be another issue - I would probably have to cook it down anyway.

 

This is really all my fault. I was with her when she was talking with a friend who mentioned dropping round to her place for some ice cream so after that conversation ended I asked her what her favorite ice cream flavour was, never imagining that what she answered would be it .. I thought it would be more along the lines of vanilla, chocolate or strawberry. Before I could really think about what making this particular combo might involve, I opened my mouth to offer to make her some. She lit right up so I don't want to reneg now. Poor woman has just found out she has breast cancer and she has just lost one of her sons to cancer as well. It is probably my fault in the first place if the local store has just brought some in too - got her thinking about it I am sure. I should have just said I would make 'some ice cream' and then gone simple.

 

Oh well .. I will just do my best and if it is palatable but not to her particular liking, I would bet her great-grandkids WILL eat it eventually. They weren't too keen on my astronaut ice cream (from the freeze dryer - they had never heard of the stuff and wondered why anyone would ever dry out ice cream) but they have gobbled down all sorts of other horrid, overly sweet concoctions I have sent over.


Edited by Deryn (log)

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Apple Crisp Ice Cream sounds quite doable.  And do you have crust in your Pumpkin Pie Ice Cream?

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Deryn,

I completely agree with your desire to "do it right" as far as ingredients go, but I can see that you don't think this ice cream is going to be a success and probably won't be something you yourself would like.  Let me assure you that it is (or at least can be) delicious!  It is quite common in my area (Virginia).  I recall that when I had my tonsils out as a child, it was the only thing I wanted to eat.  I haven't had it often since then, but I remember that it did have bits of pineapple in it and definitely tasted of orange; it was a lovely pale orange color (perhaps better not to inquire how it got that color).  Of course commercial ice cream makers have at their disposal many ingredients to keep it from icing, and you probably don't want to go in that direction (see paulraphael's and JoNorvelleWalker's postings if you do).  I feel sure your friend will be greatly impressed with and grateful for whatever you come up with.

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Thanks, Jim. I am fairly sure I had some of this too when I was young but that was eons ago so imagining ingredients that are more 'natural' than might be included in a commercial preparation to produce a similar delight at home is more difficult than I thought it would be before I began looking up recipes. I don't remember hating what I tasted back then but when I do eat ice cream these days my preferences are to go with simple premium ice creams in coffee or caramel flavours.

 

Do you think that the 'orange' part tasted more like real orange juice or orange soda?

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52 minutes ago, Deryn said:

Do you think that the 'orange' part tasted more like real orange juice or orange soda?

Like you, it was eons ago that I had it; it was well before anyone had any concerns about natural flavorings.  So I doubt that the flavoring was natural.  I remember it as having little pieces of orange zest in it, but that could be my more-snobbish present-day taste buds thinking that.  If I were making it, I would definitely include some zest and would not use orange soda flavoring.  Keeping the pineapple from icing up is the big challenge, but others have already mentioned what might be done about that.

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14 hours ago, Deryn said:

I definitely would like to include some pineapple bits as well. I will have to squeeze them out really well though I think - I am sure you are right about the icy result if I don't.

 

One thing I've done when including fruit like chopped cherries is to simmer them in a few tablespoons of sugar for about 10 minutes.

 

I think that helps lower the freezing point of the water in the fruit chunks and keeps them chewy and un-frozen. Otherwise, they just become little chunks of ice.

 

I freeze them the day before and then drop them in at the end of the spin. They should be chewy right out of the freezer.

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This afternoon I found some being sold in cones at a small canteen in a town about 5 miles from me so I bought the smallest one I could and tried it. I can tell that no matter what I do I expect whatever I produce will have more flavour and is likely to be much 'richer' than the commercial one - and definitely won't be 'authentic' but I am getting more and more ok with that as time passes.

 

The taste was more olfactory than anything else I think: it smelled like pineapple, not much of orange. The smell was semi-ethereal and I could not really identify it through taste. There was a back end taste of milk (not cream). First lick was semi-creamy but the 2nd lick was less so for some reason. It was orange but I can't say I tasted much orange. It had red bits in it that I think were pineapple (but I am guessing the red colour isn't exactly 'natural'). They had that consistency though they were a bit chewy. It wasn't awful but I wouldn't order it again either.

 

So here is how I think I will proceed. I will make a rich custard (using a fair bit of cream) and cool it. I will simmer some crushed pineapple and maybe some orange zest in a bit of OJ with added sugar - and freeze the resultant solids. I will make the frozen custard and add (as you suggested, sweettreateater) the frozen bits near the end. I am not sure I will get a lot of colour but I do hope I get a fair bit of taste and an ice cream that doesn't turn too icy once stored.

 

Thanks all for your help. I will report back when I have made whatever this turns out to be.

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@Deryn, for reference, you might check out this recipe from Serious Eats. It's for lemon ice cream, which we made last week. (If we make it again, we'll skip the candied lemons, which really just got in the way of a pretty good ice cream.) Of course, there are some differences between lemon and orange-pineapple, but maybe this recipe will help direct your thinking, as it shows a way to get good citrus flavor into a custard base.

 

Another thought about the additional liquid that pineapple would bring to the party: maybe dice it and roast it to evaporate the water? Then stir those bits into the ice cream right at the end of the freezing process.

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Thank you very much, Dave. Sounds like a good plan (the one in that Serious Eats recipe). Much appreciated, especially since you have already tried that recipe and apparently been happy with the results. It really doesn't feel like ice cream weather here right now but I will dive into this tomorrow anyway.

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FYI, Dole makes a pineapple/orange juice blend and they pack it in small 8 oz cans (but they come in a six pack).  I haven't used it ice cream, but I do use it for my chicken marinade.  For ice cream I'd see how reducing the volume to a syrup like consistency affects the flavor.  (My approach to flavored ice cream is to make a vanilla base then add concentrated flavors.)


Edited by mgaretz (log)
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In an older post (maybe in this thread) I suggested adding the cream to the recipe AFTER cooking / pasteurization. The idea was that the cream is already industrially homogenized, so there's no point in undoing that good work by melting the fat over heat, and then trying to re-homogenize it with a mere blender. I posited that keeping the cream cool, and putting it in toward the end, would slightly improve texture.

 

I was wrong!

 

I've tested this a few times now, and in every case I've gotten much better texture by throwing the cream in with the other ingredients in the beginning, cooking it all together, and then blasting the whole mix (still hot) in a high-powered blender. 

 

I don't know for sure why this is. One possibility is that it's during the cooking process when the emulsifying molecules (egg lecithin, or whatever else you may be using) bond to the fat globules. But that's just a barely educated guess.

 

At any rate, my ice creams are much smoother now, even though I'm making them in a freezer bowl machine, and my old freezer is struggling to maintain 0°F. 


Edited by paulraphael (log)

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Thanks today to a kind eGulleter I obtained a quart of Trickling Springs organic heavy cream.  I dusted off the KitchenAid PHMB and made up a batch of mix.  Sitting in the ice bath at the moment.

 

heavy cream as many grams as in a quart

large egg yolks 8 (because they were not what I'd call large)

sucrose 110 g

kosher salt pinch

 

 

This I plan to be vanilla but I still have dreams of pistachio, now that nut pastes are recently within my grasp.  And as much as I love modernist gelato I still hope to incorporate significant pistachio paste in a cream and egg custard base.  Not sure how to do this.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:04 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

This I plan to be vanilla...

 

But it was not to be.  I could not get the cap off the bottle of vanilla.  Anyhow I shared this picture in the dinner thread and thought it would be remiss not to repost the results here:

 

IceCream03092018.png

 

 

The above batch of ice cream (unflavored) served with Golden Fleece brand walnut preserve.  These are whole baby walnuts in sugar syrup, eaten shell and all.

 

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I’m almost afraid to post on this thread—I’ve read the whole thing and my head is spinning with all the science and the precision of testing. 

 

My question is about peanut butter flavored ice cream. I have tried a handful of recipes and the peanut butter always results in a strange texture that is a bit crumbly and doesn’t really melt as it warms. I’ve tried with and without eggs, natural vs. regular commercial peanut butter, less cream/more milk, etc. 

 

I recently had a PB flavor at a local artisanal shop and it was the smooth, creamy texture of a vanilla but had peanut butter flavor. Has anyone tried steeping peanuts in the cream instead of using PB in their ice cream (not dairy free MC@H gelato)? This has worked really well for me making a gianduja flavor and an almond cherry flavor. I noticed on the ingredients list for Jeni’s Splendid Ice Cream’s PB flavor she lists peanuts and peanut oil as ingredients but no PB. 

 

Or or has anyone made a nicely textured PB flavored ice cream using actual peanut butter?

 

Thanks!

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21 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

I’m almost afraid to post on this thread—I’ve read the whole thing and my head is spinning with all the science and the precision of testing. 

 

My question is about peanut butter flavored ice cream. I have tried a handful of recipes and the peanut butter always results in a strange texture that is a bit crumbly and doesn’t really melt as it warms. I’ve tried with and without eggs, natural vs. regular commercial peanut butter, less cream/more milk, etc. 

 

I recently had a PB flavor at a local artisanal shop and it was the smooth, creamy texture of a vanilla but had peanut butter flavor. Has anyone tried steeping peanuts in the cream instead of using PB in their ice cream (not dairy free MC@H gelato)? This has worked really well for me making a gianduja flavor and an almond cherry flavor. I noticed on the ingredients list for Jeni’s Splendid Ice Cream’s PB flavor she lists peanuts and peanut oil as ingredients but no PB. 

 

Or or has anyone made a nicely textured PB flavored ice cream using actual peanut butter?

 

Thanks!

 

We made peanut butter ice cream at the shop where I worked way back in the 20th century—we just blended PB into our standard base and it came out fine. My standards were lower then, so I might not think too much of the results today.

 

The challenge you're discovering is that peanut butter puts a bunch of solids and also peanut oil into the mix, which will both affect the texture. My inclination would be to some of the things you've already tried: reduce the eggs, reduce the cream/milk ratio. If that hasn't worked, it's possible that you're just being too ambitious with the amount of peanut butter. 

 

If you're not satisfied by the depth of peanut flavor you get when you reduce the amount of PB, then I think your idea of infusing peanuts into the milk is a good one. I'd try crushing the peanuts to the point where they're like coarse sand, and maybe toasting them a bit in a pan first. Then you can heat the milk up to 185°F or so, add the peanuts, cover, and let it infuse for 30 minutes or so off the heat before straining. This is just a guess. I don't know how much flavor you'll get. Possibly between this, and a reduced quantity of peanut buter in the mix you can hit the sweet spot.

 

Also don't forget to throw in a bit of salt. 1 to 2 grams per liter. It really brings out the flavor of peanuts. 

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57 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

I’m almost afraid to post on this thread—I’ve read the whole thing and my head is spinning with all the science and the precision of testing. 

 

My question is about peanut butter flavored ice cream. I have tried a handful of recipes and the peanut butter always results in a strange texture that is a bit crumbly and doesn’t really melt as it warms. I’ve tried with and without eggs, natural vs. regular commercial peanut butter, less cream/more milk, etc. 

 

I recently had a PB flavor at a local artisanal shop and it was the smooth, creamy texture of a vanilla but had peanut butter flavor. Has anyone tried steeping peanuts in the cream instead of using PB in their ice cream (not dairy free MC@H gelato)? This has worked really well for me making a gianduja flavor and an almond cherry flavor. I noticed on the ingredients list for Jeni’s Splendid Ice Cream’s PB flavor she lists peanuts and peanut oil as ingredients but no PB. 

 

Or or has anyone made a nicely textured PB flavored ice cream using actual peanut butter?

 

Thanks!

 

Consider Modernist Cuisine peanut butter gelato.  Actually it is peanut butter and jelly gelato but I leave out the jelly.

 

http://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/p-b-j-gelato/

 

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37 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

We made peanut butter ice cream at the shop where I worked way back in the 20th century—we just blended PB into our standard base and it came out fine. My standards were lower then, so I might not think too much of the results today.

 

The challenge you're discovering is that peanut butter puts a bunch of solids and also peanut oil into the mix, which will both affect the texture. My inclination would be to some of the things you've already tried: reduce the eggs, reduce the cream/milk ratio. If that hasn't worked, it's possible that you're just being too ambitious with the amount of peanut butter. 

 

If you're not satisfied by the depth of peanut flavor you get when you reduce the amount of PB, then I think your idea of infusing peanuts into the milk is a good one. I'd try crushing the peanuts to the point where they're like coarse sand, and maybe toasting them a bit in a pan first. Then you can heat the milk up to 185°F or so, add the peanuts, cover, and let it infuse for 30 minutes or so off the heat before straining. This is just a guess. I don't know how much flavor you'll get. Possibly between this, and a reduced quantity of peanut buter in the mix you can hit the sweet spot.

 

Also don't forget to throw in a bit of salt. 1 to 2 grams per liter. It really brings out the flavor of peanuts. 

That’s kind of what I was thinking. Just wanted to see if I was on the right track. I’ll give it a try in the next little while and report back :)  

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7 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Consider Modernist Cuisine peanut butter gelato.  Actually it is peanut butter and jelly gelato but I leave out the jelly.

 

http://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/p-b-j-gelato/

 

Thanks, Jo—I may try that as well. I really want a dairy ice cream that tastes like PB, but if I get around to purchasing some xantham gun I’ll give it a whirl. Thanks for the suggestion. 

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26 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

Thanks, Jo—I may try that as well. I really want a dairy ice cream that tastes like PB, but if I get around to purchasing some xantham gun I’ll give it a whirl. Thanks for the suggestion. 

 

Oddly the MC gelato tastes like dairy.  Hard to believe, I know.

 

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I have used peanut butter powder with great success. 

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I was going to suggest either that (I keep some on hand to use in Asian sauces, baking, etc.) or going that way your own; dry-roast some peanuts, grind them, and add them.

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