Baking's dirty little secret

[nickrey]

Like many avid followers of food, I always followed the conventional wisdom that cooking was all art and not measuring and baking was precise and full of accurate measurement. Baking was the ancestor of molecular gastronomy.. Or so I always thought.

 

After having done much bread baking in recent times, this facade has fallen away for me.

 

Follow the precise measurements of a recipe for bread and, guess what, most often it will fail (too sticky, typically, in my side of the world).

 

If baking is all precision, shouldn't a recipe always turn out if you measure carefully?

 

Turns out that flours have different hydration properties and what works in one kitchen with one type of flour will fail in another kitchen.

 

I can understand that having a precise recipe in a particular kitchen that uses one type of flour from the same source may be accurate, but even then there is relative humidity to tackle, which will definitely have an effect on relative proportions.

 

So I'd propose that baking's dirty little secret is that the recipe gives a general guide and then you need to add more ingredients to balance up the mix to make it appropriate for baking.

 

Sure, I suspect every baker knows this. But why pretend that baking is more precise than other forms of cooking, which also need to adjust ingredients according to conditions?

 

Let's put this into every baking book and start talking about feel of the flour (we get told that the resultant mixture should be sticky but that's a long continuum).

 

Comments please!

Edited January 23, 2015 by nickrey (log)

[jmacnaughtan]

With bread baking, I'd agree with you.  With pastry and pretty much all the non-bread areas of baking, if you don't have a reliable recipe, good scales and good techniques, then your product is going to suffer.

[Lisa Shock]

Bakeries control their environments more than you are apparently able to control the environment in your home kitchen. Temperature and humidity are carefully controlled throughout the process, from storage room, to workroom, to proofbox, to steam injected oven, to the cooling area. Generally, most bakeries keep the thermostat at 72°F and low humidity. (Running the air conditioning to offset oven heat usually takes care of humidity issues.)

 

I try to buy flours which are sold in moisture-proof packaging and get lovely results every time, if used immediately upon opening. Here in the US, Fresh & Easy stores sell (retail to home users) flour packaged in tough, thick plastic bags which give really consistent results every time. I spent three years teaching my own classes to the public and taught one bread class twice a month like clockwork. We opened those F&E bags and used them with the same formula, it was precise every single time. (I keep notes, and, had to keep ledgers about commodities used.)

 

Bakeries don't store ingredients for a long time. There's no point in having money tied up in inventory when the wholesaler will deliver 6 days a week. It's rare for flour to sit in storage for more than a week. Flour is like any other ingredient, it changes over time and exposure to air. Proper storage in airtight containers can only do so much. Just like spices, or other ingredients like baking powder, it works best when fresh. Performance changes over time. If it's more than six months old, you should consider tossing it -sooner if the kitchen conditions are not ideal. Just because your mom, friends, or other home cooks keep ingredients forever and then use them doesn't mean that they've been making the tastiest foods with the best consistency. If your grocer can't get fresh flour to you (just like if the oil were always rancid), consider shopping elsewhere.

[KennethT]

But what about pastry kitchens in restaurants? In NYC, where space is a premium, I can't tell you how many pastry kitchens are shoved into the corner of the savory kitchen - and they certainly do not have temperature or humidity control!!!

ETA: on the same line of thinking, what about patisseries in France? Especially before say 15 years ago, I'd assume most did not have air conditioning of any kind, and temperature/humidity could definitely fluctuate - especially in the summer.

Edited January 23, 2015 by KennethT (log)

[Norm Matthews]

Nickrey, so see to hear someone else making that observation about home bread making too.  There are too many variables to think the method and conditions someone else uses to measure flour is going to produce identical results elsewhere. 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)

[cakewalk]

I agree about the bread baking, especially if you're making sourdough, it can be a crap shoot. But bread baking is sort of "in between." It's not baking (cakes, pastries, etc.) and it's not cooking, I see it as being in a class by itself so I don't think there's a comparison to be made. An analogy I've heard, and which I think is good, is that cooking is like jazz (improvisational) and baking is like classical music (structured). If you change things in a baking recipe, your end product might still be good, and you might even like it better, but it will be something other than what the recipe intended.

[pastrygirl]

Shhhh!

 

You're right, bread is different, it's a living thing and not as reliant on exactness or technique.

 

With pastry, for any recipe there is some amount of leeway, but you do how to know what purpose each ingredient plays and how adjusting it will affect the end result.  In restaurants, you make adjustments for that particular kitchen and those particular ingredients.  One restaurant may use a different AP flour or have a stronger convection fan than another, or use different brands of cream, butter, or chocolate, and old recipes might need tweaking.  One reason pastry chefs often work early is to avoid the hotter and steamier time in the kitchen.  My last restaurant had a tiny kitchen, so I would do all my chocolate and buttery dough work first thing, before the cooks came in and turned on the flattops. 

[weinoo]

With bread baking, I'd agree with you.  With pastry and pretty much all the non-bread areas of baking, if you don't have a reliable recipe, good scales and good techniques, then your product is going to suffer.

I agree with this.  WE've had previous discussions of how much flour (by weight) is in "a cup," and man does that amount vary widely.

[AlaMoi]

once I found a technical site that detailed flour moisture content by relative humidity.  it's now behind a paywall - if anyone has any other leads let us know.

 

bottom line, from low humidity (single digit) to 95% RH, moisture content varied about 10%

of course, "our kitchens" are not likely to vary that much - it depends on your climate.

 

what I have found through experience is the flour itself varies a lot more than the variation due to humidity.

whether it's the type of wheat or the grind or the milling or whatever, the same weight (I use a scale) of one flour does not work the same as another flour.

 

and weighing ingredients is much more accurate and rpeatable than by volume.

 

the "science" part methinks really does apply - how many queries have you seen:

"I made X, followed the recipe exactly but I substituted Z for Q and was out of A so I used R and kids don't like N so I left it out - it didn't turn out like the picture.  What happened?"

 

butter, oil, shortening, lard - they all give different textures.  so not following the recipe can very easily produce bad results.

When Crisco changed to trans-fat free a whole lotta' people we unhappy with their results - using "Crisco"

 

a slight off-quantity of yeast is not a big deal if one 'recognizes' when a bread has (properly) risen.  for a new baker blindly doing things 'by the clock' - it can be problematic.  few recipes specify ambient temperatures - which drastically affects how fast yeast multiplies / rises.

 

and most bread recipes make some mention of +/- flour to get the right dough consistency.  unfortunately new bakers don't know what the "right" consistency is for a particular type of bread (as an example) - experience is not a bad thing, actually. 

 

the bottom line methinks is simple that one must more closely follow the ingredients and recipe in baking than in cooking.  but do you need a scale that weighs to the 0.01 gram?  no.

[gfweb]

If flour hydration is critical, why not store it in the freezer?  That would stabilize conditions somewhat.

[AlaMoi]

ref hydration - variations in the flour, the measured amounts of flour and liquid are likely to be much much more a source of "error" than varying moisture content of the flour itself.  I don't see much difference in how a dough handles within a roughly 10% difference.

 

the pioneers did it all on-the-fly-by-hand&feel.  but they baked bread right regular - everyone in the kitchen likely knew how "sticky" the bread dough should be from experience.  that kind of experience is lacking today - and even an experience sourdough pioneer baker might have had trouble making crossiant dough the first couple of times....

 

and there are situations where by-hand&feel is pretty much the only wasy to success - not baking, but fresh pasta - eggs vary quite a bit; "size grading" helps - but the amount of flour needed for 2 eggs worth of fresh pasta is definitely not something one can blindly weigh out and expect to have it work.

 

keeping flour - especially wholewheat / wholemeal types - in the freezer is a good idea for those who do not use up the quantity within some reasonable time.  or, if the pantry is prone to bugs....

[Edward J]

^{I think you're half way there, Nickrey, but not at the final destination.}

 

^{-Of course different brands of flours have different hydration rates, ash content, gluten content, as well as particle size.  Everything makes a difference.}

 

^{-Of course different kitchens have different r/h (relative humidity) and different ambient temperatures.  As well as different ovens, mixers, etc.}

 

^{Here's how I look at things.....}

 

^{At my gun club, we have an ex- S. African Olympic shooter.  Guy lays down, sights, and gets  consistent bulls eyes. Always. Drives me nuts.  Chatting him up, he tells me one of his biggest things is to always compensate on the fly. Most of the time it's automatic and he doesn't even think about it. 300 meter range with a heavy s.e. wind? He compensates.  Indoor 50 meter range?  Different type of compensation. Different gun, different body position and different sets of compensation, even if he's using the same ammunition.  Left shoulder stiff from a work accident last week?  Another type of compensation.} 

 

^{Main thing is, this guy knows that EVERYTHING matters and must be factored in.  But for me, out of a total of 100 shots he gets 99 bulls eyes.  That's like clamping the gun in a vice and using a remote control to fire.  It's very consistent and precise.}

 

^{p.s.  One of things I learned from Reinhart's "Bread baker's apprentice" was the dough rest.  After mixing the dough for a few minutes, when it's still a shaggy mass, he turns off the mixer for 20 minutes.  Among other things, this ensures proper hydration.}

[cakewalk]

Protein levels in flour make a difference, too. When I started baking I always used Hecker's All-Purpose flour. (Still do.) I have certain cakes that I've been making for years, always with Hecker's. Then I learned about King Arthur Flour and I immediately ordered their AP flour. I made my tried-and-true cakes with it. I didn't notice much of a difference in the batter, but my goodness, the texture of the finished cake was entirely different, and not for the better. It was tougher, and I didn't like it. Later I learned that King Arthur's AP flour has a significantly higher protein percentage than Hecker's and that is what made the difference. This is not to say anything bad about KAF, their stuff is wonderful and I buy a lot of their products, even their AP flour sometimes. I'll use it for cookies or for pie dough, etc. but not for my cakes. If I had started baking with the KAF, then of course that would have been my standard. So that's just one example where even if the recipe is followed precisely, a different flour will give you different results. But the results themselves will still be consistent, as long as the precise ingredients are consistent.

 

Edited for an attempt at clarity.

Edited January 23, 2015 by cakewalk (log)

[CatPoet]

Also  kneading can make a sticky dough, no sticky but people these days are afraid of  kneading, which is sad because it produces such lovely sponge. 

 

I always says, use you hands when making bread and don't follow the recipe blindly, because flour is  not the same all over the world.

[AlaMoi]

...a different flour will give you different results.

 

absolutely.  and it is not just the AP/bread/cake/whatever label - and there is no industry standard on what is AP/bread/etc. - so as you found, KAF AP may be more like a different brand bread flour.

 

this is fresh in my mind because for decades I've been using KAF unbleached bread flour and Ceresota unbleached AP.

recently Ceresota disappeared from the local market - sub'd KAF AP.

very different results in stuff I've been making for many years.

 

fortunately the lack of Ceresota was temporary!

 

and even the best of plans can go wrong - many people are quite fond of White Lily for biscuits.  it is not directly distributed up our way, but WalMart does carry it.  special trip, bought a bag, made biscuits, DW:  "I don't like these - the other ones are better."  oops.

[Norm Matthews]

Weighing flour insures consistency as long as all factors remain constant.  That means  a good recipe will always be good, but a bad recipe will always be bad too.  If I recall correctly, I think it was Shirley Corriher who said that relative humidity does not make any significant difference in results when it comes to flour. 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)

[Lisa Shock]

But what about pastry kitchens in restaurants? In NYC, where space is a premium, I can't tell you how many pastry kitchens are shoved into the corner of the savory kitchen - and they certainly do not have temperature or humidity control!!!

ETA: on the same line of thinking, what about patisseries in France? Especially before say 15 years ago, I'd assume most did not have air conditioning of any kind, and temperature/humidity could definitely fluctuate - especially in the summer.

 Those tiny kitchens where space is at a premium cannot store flour. They get it in and use it within a few days, before it goes stale.

[Lisa Shock]

If flour hydration is critical, why not store it in the freezer?  That would stabilize conditions somewhat.

 

There was a very good, James Beard award winning, bread bakery here in Phoenix for a while (they couldn't make it during the economic crash) and they kept flour in their walk-in freezer, not just for freshness but also to ensure that it was insect-free.

[nickrey]

Weighing flour insures consistency as long as all factors remain constant.  That means  a good recipe will always be good, but a bad recipe will always be bad too.  If I recall correctly, I think it was Shirley Corriher who said that relative humidity does not make any significant difference in results when it comes to flour. 

I weigh everything. Sydney is very humid at the moment. Perhaps Shirley has never been to a really humid place. It's all relative.

[pbear]

Just took a look.  All of Shirley's bread recipes in Cookwise include some variation of "Add a little more flour or liquid if needed" in the instructions.  And, FWIW, she's from Georgia, which indeed generally is brutally humid in summer.

[Anna N]

When I first started baking bread I followed the recipe as if my life depended on it. I made hundreds of bricks. It was not until I learned that the feel of the dough was much more important than the accuracy of the measuring. Even now when I make the same bread every single week, often twice a week, I will adjust the liquid.