Cooking burgers sous vide, have some questions

[gfweb]

I had to try it.

 

130F 45min, the temp/time suggested by MC at home. For me, the texture was too uncooked in the center

 

 

 

Second try at 135F 45 min. At end of SV the internal temp was 130F. Still too uncooked feeling for me. Odd, since I like my burgers med rare when cooked traditionally.

 

More fiddling is needed.  I'm still not sold on SV burgers.

 

An observation....there is no contraction of the burger whatsoever when cooked by SV (I know...like duh) and it might even swell a little.  I will need to make flatter patties in the future...ie use less meat...which makes SV economical!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I would think sous vide would flatten the patty compared to conventional cooking unless the patty were frozen first?

[ChrisTaylor]

I would think sous vide would flatten the patty compared to conventional cooking unless the patty were frozen first?

 

You're right: if you vac seal a loosely-bound patty of the sort described by the Modernist Cuisine people or Heston Blumenthal, you'll crush it. This is why 'sous vide' burgers are often cooked in a zip lock bag rather than a pouch (hence the inverted commas). Of course, you could always freeze them first or stand there with your finger on the 'seal' button of your strip sealer. 

[dcarch]

I don't eat burgers often, mostly because I can't find good buns. Why waste beef on lousy buns?

 

I did want to try to make SV burger, so I had to make my own buns.

 

I am not a fat eater, so I used lean bottom round, hand chopped. with a few other stuff and seasoning mixed in.

 

SV at 132F, 24 hours. 

 

Topped with roasted peppers, sauteed onions. I decided for this go around, I just want to taste the beef. No cheese. They were very good.

 

dcarch

 

 

 

 

 

[weinoo]

While I like burgers rare to medium-rare, none of these sous-vide burgers look that appetizing to my eye.  They just look too raw to me.  

 

And perhaps that's the difference when cooking a burger using "conventional" methods, like a hot frying pan or a grill or a griddle; sure, they're not perfectly rare from edge to edge - they may even have that dreaded little bit of grey -  but in fact, they're perfectly "cooked," or at least they look and taste that way.

[rotuts]

Soooo  raise the temp of the bath to your liking.

 

[weinoo]

Soooo  raise the temp of the bath to your liking.

 

 

Of course, but what I'm trying to convey (badly?) is that it's the appearance of the beef in the burgers cooked sous vide that turns me off.

[gfweb]

And the texture issue cannot be escaped. I suspect that even cooked optimally, whatever that turns out to be, the SV burger won't be what my mouth expects of a burger.  So far they've felt like biting into a meatball, not a burger.

 

I'm beginning to see why MC deep fries them as a final step to get a real good crunch on the things.

[paulraphael]

And the texture issue cannot be escaped. I suspect that even cooked optimally, whatever that turns out to be, the SV burger won't be what my mouth expects of a burger.  So far they've felt like biting into a meatball, not a burger.

 

I'm beginning to see why MC deep fries them as a final step to get a real good crunch on the things.

 

Hmmm, I haven't experienced this. The only thing I've noticed is that I could get away with salting the meat before grinding when cooking conventionally, but not when cooking s.v. ... the salt would lead to a firmer, overly cohesive texture for my tastes. 

 

Are you using a vacuum machine?

[paulraphael]

While I like burgers rare to medium-rare, none of these sous-vide burgers look that appetizing to my eye.  They just look too raw to me.  

 

And perhaps that's the difference when cooking a burger using "conventional" methods, like a hot frying pan or a grill or a griddle; sure, they're not perfectly rare from edge to edge - they may even have that dreaded little bit of grey -  but in fact, they're perfectly "cooked," or at least they look and taste that way.

When I cooked burgers in a 56C bath and finished on a friend's gas grill, they didn't look raw inside. Just a nice medium rare. The grill took a while to brown them, so they ended up with a temperature gradient. But it was more like medium-rare to medium-well (with very little of the latter. There still wasn't any dry, gray meat anywhere. They looked really great.

 

Some of the pictures I see surprise me; people will say they cooked at 55C, but the meat looks horror-movie red. I wonder if this is a photography issue and not a cooking one.

[scubadoo97]

At 55C they will look red but to me the texture was not the same as a traditional burger at the same internal temp. The meat felt more cooked in texture. Maybe because it was held at that core temp longer

[paulraphael]

There are tradeoffs with different cooking times. It's a great benefit to be able to pasteurize, for example, but you'll dry out the meat much more than if just cooking to temp. 

 

For 1-1/4" burgers to get to medium-rare in a water bath set 1°C above the desired temp, cooking time is about 50 minutes. Pasteurization takes an additional hour and 20 minutes, during which time you lose a lot of juice.

Edited June 15, 2014 by paulraphael (log)

[gfweb]

 

 

Are you using a vacuum machine?

 

No, just a zip loc bag.

 

When I cooked burgers in a 56C bath and finished on a friend's gas grill, they didn't look raw inside. Just a nice medium rare. The grill took a while to brown them, so they ended up with a temperature gradient. But it was more like medium-rare to medium-well (with very little of the latter. There still wasn't any dry, gray meat anywhere. They looked really great.

 

Some of the pictures I see surprise me; people will say they cooked at 55C, but the meat looks horror-movie red. I wonder if this is a photography issue and not a cooking one.

My 130F burger was indeed that red. The 135F burger was more a decided pink.

 

My screaming hot steel pan crusted up the outside quickly. The inside had no time to benefit from much more cooking.

[btbyrd]

I recently got a meat grinder for my Kitchenaid and I've been experimenting with home-ground SV burgers. My technique is currently to cut meat into grinder-sized chunks, par freeze, (freeze the grinder beforehand), grind, form into patties, transfer to fridge for 30 minutes, transfer to freezer for 15 minutes. Then deep fry @ 375 for long enough to form a crust. Drain on rack. Transfer to a Ziplock bag with a pat of butter. Cook SV to your desired degree of doneness. Then sear off over a screaming hot grill.

The results are awesome. No sausage-like texture, deep flavor, nice crust, extremely juicy. I've been using a 50/50 short rib/skirt steak blend but tonight am trying a 60/30/30 brisket/short rib/ny strip (trim from a subprimal I cut into steaks) blend. Should be good!

[Paul Bacino]

I recently got a meat grinder for my Kitchenaid and I've been experimenting with home-ground SV burgers. My technique is currently to cut meat into grinder-sized chunks, par freeze, (freeze the grinder beforehand), grind, form into patties, transfer to fridge for 30 minutes, transfer to freezer for 15 minutes. Then deep fry @ 375 for long enough to form a crust. Drain on rack. Transfer to a Ziplock bag with a pat of butter. Cook SV to your desired degree of doneness. Then sear off over a screaming hot grill.

The results are awesome. No sausage-like texture, deep flavor, nice crust, extremely juicy. I've been using a 50/50 short rib/skirt steak blend but tonight am trying a 60/30/30 brisket/short rib/ny strip (trim from a subprimal I cut into steaks) blend. Should be good!

 

You should try to put some aged beef in those burgers ..   YUMM

[rotuts]

interesting Technique

 

why not  do as you do

 

(  as PB  'Mr Beef' )

 

suggest some aged beef    or  not  

 

but  rather than sear at the end

 

dont do the first fry

 

save that for the end.

 

a bit like MC

 

compare these

 

then choose.

[btbyrd]

I'm following the Dave Arnold protocol of fry-SV-grill (but with gas instead of charcoal). The reason I grill at the end instead of just deep frying is that I really like the flavor that comes off the grill. If you bag the burger with butter and drip the bag juices over the grill once it's scorching hot, you get that grilled meat flavor in a short amount of time. Straight up fried burger meat browns but doesn't have those vaporized fat/juice flavors. Here's tonight's progression with the brisket-shortrib-NYstrip blend.

 

 

 

Post fry, pre-grill,

 

Post grill, pre-bun.

 

Bun.

 

Yep, that's a Kraft single on top. I have some Kerrygold cheese waiting for some sodium citrate and carrageenan to make some melty slices for the weekend. I figured a fried SV grill burger was enough work for the middle of the week.

Edited August 1, 2014 by btbyrd (log)

[Paul Bacino]

Funny btbyrd..I'm working with a similar blend..but substitute strip. And applewood bacon...this weekend...I like the fry idea.. That thing. Also has some stack too

[kostbill]

Hello.

 

I am having difficulty with sous vide burgers.

 

They come out hard and not juicy at all. They are not the juicy, soft burgers I would like them to be.

 

Where I live, I cannot find fatty beef, so, I am adding extra beef fat in my burgers. But after a couple of hours in the sous vide, all the fat leeks from the patty to the bag.

 

Does anyone have any experience using any kind of substances that can hold the fat? I know that maltodextrin or dextrose can hold the fat and indeed, many of the commercially available burgers include maltodextrin and/or dextrose.

 

Can anyone suggest how to use them properly?

 

Thanks people.

[ChrisTaylor]

What cuts of meat are you using? Most beef in Australia is lean, particularly the inexpensive/readily available kind, but you can still make juicy burgers if you use the right cuts. All I'm saying is: let's try a simple solution (assuming you haven't already experimented with a variety of and blend of cuts) before a complicated one.

[scubadoo97]

Are you grinding it yourself?

[ChrisTaylor]

Also, when you say extra fat ... are we talking trimmings or a packaged product (i.e. dripping)?

[btbyrd]

How long are you cooking them for? "A couple hours" is too long unless you're trying to pasteurize at a low temp. Also, are you salting them before? If so, don't. That draws out moisture and firms up the texture.

[ChrisTaylor]

How long are you cooking them for? "A couple hours" is too long unless you're trying to pasteurize at a low temp. Also, are you salting them before? If so, don't. That draws out moisture and firms up the texture.

 

All of that, too. And what temperature are you cooking them at/to?

[kostbill]

Wow! Thanks for the answers.

 

I am using chuck most of the times but I have also tried ribs and sirloin. I got the same result.

 

I have not tried to grind it myself but I did try the blender method. Same results.

 

About the extra fat, I ask from my butcher to give me some of the trimmings he throws away and he grinds it with the meat.

 

I am cooking it at 56 Celsius, for about 2 or 3 hours. I think that this is the main problem. Any other suggestions about temp/time/fat content?

 

Burger is one of my favorites but I cannot enjoy it .

 

 

Thanks for all the answers people!