High-end Cookware - What you get for the money

[weinoo]

9 minutes ago, rotuts said:

if you have a tin lined pan 

 

don't toss it

 

but if you have no heavy copper pans , 

 

move toward SS

 

collecting old pans is different story

 

Correct and exactly what I started to do. Though probably at the end of my copper cookware acquisition phase. (Unless...)

 

Interesting thing about the tin-lined pans; when used correctly, they are as non stick as any nonstick pans might hope to be.

[rotuts]

a few more thoughts :

 

i also have a set of 4 pans , w conventional lids for the Saute // two Sauce //

 

these are 2.5 mm , made in France , SS.  they were purchased a long time ago ( 25 years ? )

 

by friends of mine in the SF BayArea.  they knew I liked to cook , and I was visiting my father for

 

longer and longer periods of time, they gifted them to me ( under mild protest from me )

 

because they were way to heavy for them to use , and never used them.

 

I used them all the time w my father , and they eventually came to life w me in BOS.

 

note : these have a ' lip '   French restaurant and maybe high end Family pans do not.

 

the lip is a very nice feature .  the lipless pans are a PITA to clean , as they always 

 

' dribble ' down the sides.  lips pans do not.  Day to Day Physics @ home.

 

 

10 "  ( true inches , lip to lip )  saute.  wt :  2300 grams w/o lid

 

N.B.:  the white spot @ 4 O'Clock.  annoyed me greatly .  but it's a reflection , not a defect

 

 

10 " Fry.  note same lip and reflection .   1700 grams.  2.5 mm

 

note :  8 3/4 3mm fry :  1600 , no lip.   

 

these lived pans became my working pans when they moved East.  the significance of the

 

weight dif is dramatic.   even when Younger and w a Gym membership   the 10" 3mm

 

( probably 10 3/4 "   lipless  rarely got used .  Im Not Arnnold , after all 

 

If you want the full " French " effect , and think you can make your food ' jump '

 

and stay in the pan :  go for the 10 "  saute.  its wide enough to get a spatula in it

 

w/o any problems.  Jumping and keeping the jumpers in the pan is up tp your

 

and your skill lever.   the 2.5 mm pan is heavy , but doable.

 

Ive looked over the Mauviel page   :

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mauviel-6544-26-MHeritage-Copper-Frying/dp/B01N2WTHL6?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

 

they are not giving this pan away !

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mauviel-MHeritage-6451-25-Stainless-Eletroplated/dp/B01M58FQSM?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

 

9.5 " , but w lid.

 

Im sure this is a fine pan .  since Im very very accomplished at spending

 

other peoples money , for " really good stuff "   try your best to go w 2.5 mm

 

the difference in weight between my 3 mm and 2.5 was noticeable , the cooper effect

 

was noticable on the fry pans  I always picked the 3 mm fry's for salmon 

 

first in the pan , flipped , finished in the oven.  I could never maneuver the 10 + " 

 

3 mm saute , and the 10 " 2.5  was doable w very focused energy.

 

not so good with " Wine in the Kitchen "

 

I think you will get a far better cooper effect w 2.5 over 1.5

 

the price difference seems to be about $ 100.  

 

these pans are expensive.  but if can afford one , it will be a pleasure for you to use.

 

Ive always thought " hardware "  should be purchased , one grade up

 

from thoughtful requirements , if one could afford the difference.

 

why ?   your not going to take it back , and you do not want to be disappointed.

 

and stuck w thinking about the next step up.

 

So :  One pan , 2.5 mm  , saute for FR effect , Fry for a mighty fine pan.

 

N.B. :  the difference in weights for both 2.5 mm 10 " pans above

 

its significant for at least two reasons :

 

the actual cooking surface in the saute is larger , and the sides are taller.

 

good luck !  take your time , and you will certainly enjoy your purchase.

 

P.S.:  I noted the weights @ Amazon for the 2.5 and 1.5 saute :

 

2.5 = 7.7 lbs    1.5 = 5.0 lbs

 

w lid ( and id get this lid if you can and choose to afford it :

 

1.5 mm  364 $       2.5 mm   471 $$

 

a lot of money. take your time

 

BTW I got probably 14 - 15 pans , maybe a few more , ive forgotten

 

3 mm , lids for the sauce pans were " Restaurant style "

 

ie flat , a larger lid would work on a smaller pan.  

 

total USD  ( at the time , 11 FF to the dollar , no VAT , free airshiping

 

AirFrance , custom wooden box included :  $ 300 USD  )

 

as Ive said , the best deal of my life.

Edited April 12, 2021 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

if you use tin , you have to understand how quickly these pans heat up

 

and the temp tin melts at 

 

and technique 

 

that's probably why there are so many tin cooper pans for resale

 

heer and there.

 

" Went to France , love to cook , look at these beauties ! "

[weinoo]

3 minutes ago, rotuts said:

if you use tin , you have to understand how quickly these pans heat up

and the temp tin melts at 

and technique 

that's probably why there are so many tin cooper pans for resale

 

All true.

 

You know the Falks have the lip. 

 

[rotuts]

interesting

 

Bourgeat seems o also have a lip :

 

https://www.amazon.com/Matfer-Bourgeat-COPPER-FRYING-PAN/dp/B000KENPSU/ref=pd_sbs_4?pd_rd_w=PEmFp&pf_rd_p=98101395-b70f-4a52-af63-8fac2c513e02&pf_rd_r=GRETZ88SX1NZKSDXH4AD&pd_rd_r=0caadf58-32df-4bdc-8d7c-4866360e1ed8&pd_rd_wg=smU4V&pd_rd_i=B000KENPSU&psc=1

[Eatmywords]

This is our AC HA1 non stick set my wife surprised me with (a year ago).

 

 

 

 

She'd been stalking it for a while and caught it on sale for $300 (claiming she'd saved us hundreds......whata girl).  I don't love the pan handle design feel and the higher vertical angles.   Don't know if they're supposed to be shitty/cheap line compared to previous releases but they distribute heat nicely and have performed well under regular use.  Time w tell I suppose.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

With the Fissler 25% off sale coming to an end in a few minutes I succumbed to a third cookware order, a 24cm roasting pan with dome lid.  One of my friends has said I have a pot addiction.  The sale is a closeout on the 2019 Pure-Profi line.  Another pot I would have liked was sold out.  The new Fissler Pure-Profi pots don't look nearly as nice.

 

The 22cm roasting pan I might have bought was sold out and the amazon scalpers already offer it for three times the list price.

 

 

[TicTac]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 One of my friends has said I have a pot addiction. 

 

 

Not the worst thing in the world.  Just make sure you have some good munchies on hand

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I misspoke (again) the Fissler roasting pan/rondeau I have on order is 28cm, not 24cm.  Maybe bigger than I had in mind.  I hope it fits in the APO.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Since what I had wanted was a 24cm rondeau, I now have one on order from the Falk sale.  Thanks to @weinoo for the heads up.  Wish I were getting a paycheck in two weeks.

 

[weinoo]

13 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Since what I had wanted was a 24cm rondeau, I now have one on order from the Falk sale.  Thanks to @weinoo for the heads up.  Wish I were getting a paycheck in two weeks.

 

 

That's the one I have and love.  I think it even fits into the CSO. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

That's the one I have and love.  I think it even fits into the CSO. 

 

Most of my Falk pieces are from the Classic series but as much as I prefer the look of the Classic rondeau with iron handles, I went with the Copper Coeur rondeau so I could use it with induction.

 

Sad, I know, to give up 0.4mm of copper for the privilege.

 

 

[paulraphael]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:45 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Most of my Falk pieces are from the Classic series but as much as I prefer the look of the Classic rondeau with iron handles, I went with the Copper Coeur rondeau so I could use it with induction.

 

Sad, I know, to give up 0.4mm of copper for the privilege.

 

 

I wish someone would make 2.5mm clad copper with a thin carbon steel disk welded to the bottom. Or if some genius could figure out a way to do this as an aftermarket mod.

[weinoo]

7 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

I wish someone would make 2.5mm clad copper with a thin carbon steel disk welded to the bottom. Or if some genius could figure out a way to do this as an aftermarket mod.

 

That's YOU, bro!!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I came upon this interesting (to me) site and I have to share:

https://www.vintagefrenchcopper.com/about/

 

There are more cookware rabbit holes there than I can count.

 

[paulraphael]

On 4/12/2021 at 8:20 AM, rotuts said:

a few more thoughts :

 

i also have a set of 4 pans , w conventional lids for the Saute // two Sauce //

 

these are 2.5 mm , made in France , SS.  they were purchased a long time ago ( 25 years ? )

 

by friends of mine in the SF BayArea.  they knew I liked to cook , and I was visiting my father for

 

longer and longer periods of time, they gifted them to me ( under mild protest from me )

 

because they were way to heavy for them to use , and never used them.

 

I used them all the time w my father , and they eventually came to life w me in BOS.

 

note : these have a ' lip '   French restaurant and maybe high end Family pans do not.

 

the lip is a very nice feature .  the lipless pans are a PITA to clean , as they always 

 

' dribble ' down the sides.  lips pans do not.  Day to Day Physics @ home.

 

 

10 "  ( true inches , lip to lip )  saute.  wt :  2300 grams w/o lid

 

N.B.:  the white spot @ 4 O'Clock.  annoyed me greatly .  but it's a reflection , not a defect

 

 

10 " Fry.  note same lip and reflection .   1700 grams.  2.5 mm

 

I've had the 12" Mauviel version of this since the 1990s (no lip, 2600 grams). It's one of my 2 or 3 favorite pans. Just a great compromise of heat retention and responsiveness. Very even heating, even on a crappy stove. A big enough bottom to work as a traditional saute pan, but a good shape for tossing food as well (if you don't mind the workout. 

 

And it will probably last forever. I knocked it off the counter once and it went flying. My heart sank. But there wasn't even a mark on the pan. The floor was the loser in this transaction. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by paulraphael (log)

[SLB]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:45 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I went with the Copper Coeur rondeau so I could use it with induction.

 

JoNorvelleWalker, what is your opinion of the Copper Coeur, now that you've had it for awhile?  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, SLB said:

 

JoNorvelleWalker, what is your opinion of the Copper Coeur, now that you've had it for awhile?  

 

The rondeau?  I haven't used it yet.  My other Copper Coeur pieces work well.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I've been reading about Vermicular Japanese ironware.  Has anyone taken one for the team?

 

https://www.vermicular.us/

 

 

[Dr. Teeth]

6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I've been reading about Vermicular Japanese ironware.  Has anyone taken one for the team?

 

https://www.vermicular.us/

 

 

Always happy to be the first penguin off the ice flow and I revere Sean Brock (my proudest day, after wedding and kids born was when I found out we had the exact same regular order at Waffle House) who pitches them, but what exactly is this device meant to do?

[palo]

Make everything taste better???

 

p

[Anna N]

8 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I've been reading about Vermicular Japanese ironware.  Has anyone taken one for the team?

 

https://www.vermicular.us/

 

 

Looking at the prices I’m thinking we might need someone to sponsor us. And this little nugget from their “basic rules” gives me pause:

“Burning is unavoidable when cooking some vegetables, such as carrots or sweet potatoes. In such cases, try adding 1 or 2 tablespoons to help generate steam when cooking.”

 

I bet even the least among us can manage to cook sweet potatoes and carrots without burning them using less expensive appliances. 

 

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

 

I bet even the least among us can manage to cook sweet potatoes and carrots without burning them using less expensive appliances. 

 

 

I'm fairly sure I've never burnt carrots in my life and I cook with cast iron 90% of the time. I don't do sweet potatoes - not a lover.

[btbyrd]

The warning about burning carrots and sweet potatoes applies to the musui or "waterless" cooking method which uses the water inherent in food itself to generate steam. This steam further cooks the product, along with radiant heat from the walls of the cooking vessel (and direct conduction at the places where the food touches the pot). It's essentially the same thing as steam roasting, but without adding your own water. I first learned about this cooking method from Korin, which used to sell ceramic waterless pots from the brand Blissio (manufactured by Ginpo). Foods that are high in sugar and low in available moisture will scorch before they release enough water to properly steam themselves. That's why they advise to add water before adding these ingredients, or to place these ingredients on top of other, moister ingredients.

 

All that's to say, the remark is only meant to apply to their Musui Kamado product (their fancy induction crock pot) and their "oven pot," which is the same thing except you use your oven to heat it. The novel selling point of these particular pots is their tight fitting lids, though I'm not sure how much that actually makes a difference. Ginpo/Blissio makes the exact same claims about the "precision lids" on their ceramic waterless pots.

 

It all seems like mumbo jumbo to me. That said, the idea of a high end crock pot with temp control and removable inner pot that's safe to use on the stovetop and oven is attractive. You can do sous-videy style things with it. But it is tiny, with just under a 4qt capacity and a 9" internal diameter. I don't know that I'd be braising a pork shoulder or beef chuck roast in it any time soon. It looks like it's better used for other things. It seems like a product I'd have to buy first and then figure out what it's best for instead of knowing that before hand and buying exactly the tool that I want.

 

As for their pans, I can't comment. I don't get the appeal of thin cast iron. I'd be interested to learn more about the ceramic coating they use on them, as that seems to be the main selling point beyond aesthetics. You can put the oven proof one in the dishwasher, which I suppose is another unique selling point. 

[Anna N]

19 minutes ago, btbyrd said:

It all seems like mumbo jumbo to me.

No wonder. Have you looked at some of the prices?

My mother-in-law was suckered into spending a fortune on so-called waterless cookware in the 60s. 

I stand by my cynicism of the  value of extremely expensive cookware which unavoidably burns carrots and sweet potatoes.