Making Pizza at Home/Homemade Pizza

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

Okay, so I satisfied an itch that wanted scratching for a million years. I made a clam pizza. I used canned clams, justified by telling myself it was pandemic pizza. I used a NYT recipe. It looked good, and it smelled like clams and the crust was my husband's no-fail OO thin crust. But I have to admit I wouldn't do it again. I don't even like white pizza very much, and clam pizza seems to be typically of the New England persuasion. Maybe Manhattan clam pizza would have been a better choice? I'm sure fresh clams would have been an improvement, but if I had them I would not make pizza with them. It just confirms my bias against cheese and seafood together. 

 

The second pizza (this crust recipe makes 2 and a half pizzas) was one of our old favorites: radicchio quick sauteed with garlic, ovalini and fresh slices of tomato plus our usual red pizza sauce. The half or "personal" was just a basic margherita. Lots of leftovers, and I'm very grateful to my Crustmaster for eating the leftover clam slices, which he claimed were just fine.

 

Pandemic pizza.  I like that.  Reminds me of The Masque of the Red Death.

 

[Katie Meadow]

15 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Pandemic pizza.  I like that.  Reminds me of The Masque of the Red Death.

 

Geez. You order pizza for your guests at the castle and the delivery guy turns out to be a super spreader who just won't leave. 

[TdeV]

 

@Duvel , could you please discuss volume and measurements?

My pizza was ~488g dough 7+ days aged in fridge, 90g mozzarella, 90g Parmesan Reggiano, 80-90g mushrooms (farmers' market "chef's mushrooms" - 3 varieties)

Oven and ceramic pizza stone preheated for one hour to 550°F, but I have noticed the oven can dip 70°F before it switches back on. Cooked with convection for 6 1/2 minutes.

 

The mozzarella had been sliced thinly and out of the fridge for some time. It looked wet and I pressed it with paper towel. Still some moisture.

 

The top surface of the dough was not cooked enough. Link to original pizza (from dinner thread). The photos below are cold leftovers, but they illustrate the wet surface of the dough.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by TdeV
Better Photo (log)

[Duvel]

@TdeV, my usual pizza is 250 g (63% hydration), aged 2 days in the fridge. Hand tossed to about 28-30 cm diameter.

 

I use a 1 cm thick pizza steel, 36 x 36 cm. Preheated with convection at maximum (250 oC) for 45 min, last 15 min with top broiler on. The broiler is 12 cm away from the steel. The broiler needs to be on, when loading (glowing red), otherwise the top doesn’t cook properly. IR thermometer reads of the pizza steel typically yield 310-320 oC.

 

Before I aquired the described setup, I used full fat dry mozzarella with some Parmigiano for flavor, as regular mozz left too much liquid. Now I can use brine-stored buffalo mozzarella without any issues. 
 

Pizza with above specifications and in my current setup will cook in about 3.5 to 4 min ...

 

[blue_dolphin]

I've been cooking from Toni Tipton-Martin's Jubilee recently and decided to pizza-fy a few recipes from the book, just for fun.

 

There's a recipe in the book for the classic Braised Summer Squash with Onions that includes rosemary for a bit of a twist.  The squash was so soft and tender that I pretty much treated it as a chunky sauce here.  I added red bell peppers for texture and sprinkled on just a little diced country ham to contrast with the sweet veg and stay in keeping with the southern cooking theme. 

 

 

 

Next, I took 2 Jubilee recipes that feature dried corn and put them on a polenta crust instead of making the grits or cornmeal dumplings the recipes specify. 

In terms of flavor and texture, the Low Country Shrimp & Grits adapted quite well. It would have been much better with smaller shrimp but this is what I had.

I put a smallish amount of cheese (cheddar, as the recipe uses in the grits, and a little mozzarella) and some cherry tomatoes on the crust mid-bake, then added the shrimp when it came out of the oven.  Small shrimp would have made these slices easy to pick up and eat. 

 

The other recipe I messed with was for Collard Greens with(out) Cornmeal Dumplings and it also worked well. The book calls for smoked ham hocks to make the Smoky Soul Stock that the greens are cooked in.  The hock meat was was tender and still flavorful so I used some of that along with the collards to top the "pizza" and let the crust stand in for the dumplings.

A few cherry tomato halves would have added a welcome acid note.  

 

Most polenta pizza recipes bake the crust on a baking sheet.  I put it on parchment and slid that on to a pre-heated steel which yielded a crust that was crisper on the bottom with slices that could easily be picked up and eaten our of hand. 

 

 

 

[Duvel]

5 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

Most polenta pizza recipes bake the crust on a baking sheet.  I put it on parchment and slid that on to a pre-heated steel which yielded a crust that was crisper on the bottom with slices that could easily be picked up and eaten our of hand. 

 

That looks pretty good - its just regular polenta, no binders added ? What temperature do you bake this for how long ?

[Smithy]

5 hours ago, Duvel said:

 

That looks pretty good - its just regular polenta, no binders added ? What temperature do you bake this for how long ?

 

Yes, I need to try this. More info, please! It looks like a good gluten-free crust idea.

[blue_dolphin]

6 hours ago, Duvel said:

 

That looks pretty good - its just regular polenta, no binders added ? What temperature do you bake this for how long ?

 

Yes, just regular polenta, no binders.  Here is a recipe.  For this purpose, I use a little less water than I usually do when cooking the polenta - 3.5 cups of water/1 cup dry polenta instead of the 4 cups I'd usually use. 

Not that it matters, but I cook the polenta in the Instant Pot, pot-in-pot, manual, high pressure, 15 min then 10 min slow release before opening, aka, the @Anna N method!

Then I use oiled fingers to pat it out on parchment paper to ~ 1/3 inch thick.  Or you can roll it between two lightly oiled sheets.  Or press it into a pie plate to make a polenta pie crust. 

1 cup dry polenta will press out into two 10-inch rounds or one big one.   I prefer the smaller size.  Put the crusts in the fridge to firm up for at least an hour or overnight. 

I put the baking steel into the middle of the oven and pre-heat to 475°F.  My oven has a convect-roast setting that uses both upper and lower elements so that's what I use.  

Brush the top of the crust with a little olive oil and slide it, on the parchment paper, on to the steel.  Bake until the edges start to crisp up and it looks sizzle-y all over.  That takes ~ 10 minutes for me,  the recipe says 15.

Pull the crust out, add the toppings and return to the steel for another 5-10 min, until the toppings are done to your liking. 

 

I've had the crust slide off the parchment directly on to the steel.  It released just fine and was not the disaster I feared but I'm not recommending that. 

WRT toppings, I wouldn't recommend anything overly saucy - think tomatoes instead of tomato sauce and I recommend a light sprinkle of cheese directly on the crust, then add other toppings, followed by a little more cheese. 

The recipe I linked to says this is a knife and fork dish.  In my hands, making the smaller, 10-inch crusts, going light on the toppings and baking on the steel, I get slices that can easily be picked up and eaten out of hand. 

 

Edited to add that it's not pizza, but it's not bad either!

Edited July 3, 2020 by blue_dolphin (log)

[Okanagancook]

Seems like it would something nice to have with cocktails..no fussing with yeasted dough.  Thanks.

[weinoo]

I really shouldn't look at this topic - it sends shivers through my spine.

[TdeV]

How close to the broiler do you position your pizzas?

 

@JoNorvelleWalker @blue_dolphin @Chris Hennes @Duvel . . . actually everyone!

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by TdeV
Spacing (log)

[blue_dolphin]

I've been using the shelf position that puts the surface of the steel just a bit over 5 inches below the broiler element.  
Any big crust bubbles char quickly so I'm wondering if that is too close.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by blue_dolphin (log)

[Chris Hennes]

3 hours ago, TdeV said:

How close to the broiler do you position your pizzas?

I'm just a bit under 5", which is pretty close to my oven's "sweet spot" as calculated by Modernist Cuisine.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, TdeV said:

How close to the broiler do you position your pizzas?

 

@JoNorvelleWalker @blue_dolphin @Chris Hennes @Duvel . . . actually everyone!

 

 

 

Two and one half inches.

 

[Duvel]

7 hours ago, TdeV said:

How close to the broiler do you position your pizzas?

 

@JoNorvelleWalker @blue_dolphin @Chris Hennes @Duvel . . . actually everyone!

 

 

12 cm ...

[AlaMoi]

I have found 100% of 00 Cuputo a bit much.

for a medium thick crust, settled on:

165g "00" + 115g semolina + 160g water + 5g yeast

 

I get the impression you eat a lot more pizza than we do, so ymmv.

[TdeV]

 

I couldn't find a topic for pizza problems, so I'm posting here.

 

My dough is made in the bread machine (60% hydration, two 490gm dough balls, 3/4 tsp yeast) and then rested in the fridge for 3 days (up to a week or so). This time I used the first batch after about 3 days. The dough sits out of the fridge for about 2 hours before I try to shape it.

 

I don't know anything about throwing a pizza, so I usually woman-handle it by pressing, drooping and pulling. Because of the shape of my pizza peel, my pizza is usually shaped roughly 13" (330 mm) square. The pan in this image is 14" (356mm) diameter.

 

In this case the dough was rectangular (about 16 to 18" on the long end) and I couldn't pull it into a square shape. I ended up folding the dough into thirds and then folding that in half, for a total of 6 layers. This dough was really stiff and wouldn't press or droop at all well. I didn't think to take a rolling pin to it. The pizza above at best was 10" (250 mm) on one side.

 

When the pizza dough doesn't shape as expected, what do you do?

 

I had sense enough to lower the oven rack and cooked the pizza for 6 minutes longer (total 12minutes). After cooking, the dough was 3/4" (20 mm) thick. FWIW it has the last of the slow roasted farmers' market tomatoes, grated Romano and Gruyère cheese, lots of black pepper, with an light underlayment of granulated garlic and onion. So it tasted okay, just enormously chewy.

 

[blue_dolphin]

5 minutes ago, TdeV said:

When the pizza dough doesn't shape as expected, what do you do?

 

If the dough starts pulling back, give it a rest.  Pour yourself a glass of wine or go for a walk around the block so both you and the dough get to relax for 10 or 20 minutes.  Pulling and tugging a stiff dough is just frustrating. 

 

I'm not an expert at all, so take this with a grain of salt.   I usually make a 12 - 14" circle with a 225g ball of dough that's usually 70% hydration and I don't have a bread machine but I do let the dough balls rest in the fridge for a few days. 

 

If the dough's been in a cold fridge for several days, it could take a little more than 2 hrs for 500g ball to warm-up/wake-up and be ready to shape, particularly if the kitchen happens to be cooler than usual.  If the ball seems stiff, especially if it feels cool, let it sit longer, maybe in a warmer spot.

I found Ken Forkish's videos that accompany his Artisian Pizza book to be very helpful.  I learned to let the weight of the dough do the stretching work.  The dough he's working with in this video is particularly supple and elastic so he's barely lifting it but I find that the method works well even if I'm letting all the weight of the dough do the stretching.  I don't throw anything, but I sometimes drape the dough over my hands to let it stretch.  If it gets tight, that's where everyone needs a break to relax!

 

Hope your next crust won't fight back!

[TdeV]

Thanks @blue_dolphin, I'll look at that video again before I make the second pie.

Still, what do you do if the dough turns into the wrong shape? Smush it together and . . . ?

[blue_dolphin]

31 minutes ago, TdeV said:

Thanks @blue_dolphin, I'll look at that video again before I make the second pie.

Still, what do you do if the dough turns into the wrong shape? Smush it together and . . . ?

 

Oh, I totally misunderstood and thought your dough was pulling back and didn't want to be shaped.  Forgive me for going on so much 🙈

As long as the dough is elastic and happy to be shaped, I just keep working it in the direction I want. 

[AlaMoi]

once upon a time, I tried the dusted peel thing.... I suck at that....

so now I use a typical home kitchen oven, a baking stone, an aluminum cookie sheet, and . . . parchment paper!

bought some round sheets (Amazon) - cost worked out to about $0.05 more than the same "length" off the el-cheapo grocery store parchment.

it has one very convenient side-bennie - while the stone is in the oven getting to untouchable temps, one can see how big to make the pizza...

here is stone, here is parchment round

 

I put the dough on the paper, add toppings, use the cookie sheet "peel" in and out of oven.

this is my "I love black olives" pizza - always slide off paper to cooking rack - if left on paper the crust goes soggy....

 

call me chicken, call me anything . . . don't care - parchment works for me!

[TdeV]

@blue_dolphin, the dough I was wondering about was willing to be stretched but it had turned into a long thin rectangle and I didn't know any way to rejoin it, other than folding it on top of itself (which didn't work).

 

The dough in Ken Forkish's video is much looser than the dough I am used to. My kitchen registers 72°F today. My usual dough workstation is a slab of granite which is quite cool to the touch (Termoworks Infrared also says 72°F on the granite, but there seems to be trouble getting the thermometer to read a surface which has no fat on it) .

 

The video does look like Ken Forkish is using a granite or marble counter top which might also be cool.

[blue_dolphin]

1 minute ago, TdeV said:

@blue_dolphin, the dough I was wondering about was willing to be stretched but it had turned into a long thin rectangle and I didn't know any way to rejoin it, other than folding it on top of itself (which didn't work).

 

The dough in Ken Forkish's video is much looser than the dough I am used to. My kitchen registers 72°F today. My usual dough workstation is a slab of granite which is quite cool to the touch (Termoworks Infrared also says 72°F on the granite, but there seems to be trouble getting the thermometer to read a surface which has no fat on it) .

 

The video does look like Ken Forkish is using a granite or marble counter top which might also be cool.

 

Sounds like you have perfectly controlled conditions.  My kitchen can be anywhere from mid 80's on a summer afternoon to around 55°F on a cool morning.  I guess that's why I need to let the dough be my guide!

[Duvel]

19 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

once upon a time, I tried the dusted peel thing.... I suck at that....

so now I use a typical home kitchen oven, a baking stone, an aluminum cookie sheet, and . . . parchment paper!

bought some round sheets (Amazon) - cost worked out to about $0.05 more than the same "length" off the el-cheapo grocery store parchment.

it has one very convenient side-bennie - while the stone is in the oven getting to untouchable temps, one can see how big to make the pizza...

here is stone, here is parchment round

 

I put the dough on the paper, add toppings, use the cookie sheet "peel" in and out of oven.

this is my "I love black olives" pizza - always slide off paper to cooking rack - if left on paper the crust goes soggy....

 

call me chicken, call me anything . . . don't care - parchment works for me!

I do exactly the same, but remove the parchment after about 50 sec., when the base has firmed up. Gives much better spotting on the base ...

[AlaMoi]

definitely an interesting "trick"

 

mine take about 8-9 minutes to finish.  it will be interesting to see how naked on the stone differs.

 

mfg

x-Gaienhofen

x-Schweinfurt