Yogurt-making @ home

[dtremit]

So for those that heat and then cool their milk -- do you let it come down to temperature naturally, or help it along with an ice bath or similar?

[scubadoo97]

I go the natural way some times but if I'm in a hurry, just float the pot in a sink of cold water will bring it down fast

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Anyone have experience with Natural Probiotic Selection cultures?

 

https://www.yogurtathome.com/home

 

[kayb]

Never tried that one. This is the one I used when I used a powdered starter. Now I just pick up a single serve tub of Fage at the grocery and use that.

Edited March 24, 2018 by kayb
to insert link. (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Well, I now have cultures coming from Natural Probiotic Selection.  Here's hoping they won't kill me.  Ordering with one click is a whole lot easier than walking to Shoprite for Fage, not to mention when the wetlands are under water.

 

What I found interesting -- rather than boiling milk for yogurt, Natural Probiotic Selection recommends bringing the milk to 65 degrees Celsius, or even better, holding the milk at 70 degrees Celsius for 30 minutes.  This struck me as a lot like the @Ruben Porto method of heating ice cream mix, as discussed in the ice cream thread.  (Except Ruben's ice cream method specifies 71 degrees Celsius for one hour.)

 

I never could get my head around boiling milk for yogurt.  I once did a detailed study (also reported in the ice cream thread) and boiled milk tastes vile.  Or at least it doesn't taste much like milk to me.

 

It will be a couple days before I have much to report.  I don't have a yogurt maker, but I do have a Precise Heat Mixing Bowl.

 

[andiesenji]

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Well, I now have cultures coming from Natural Probiotic Selection.  Here's hoping they won't kill me.  Ordering with one click is a whole lot easier than walking to Shoprite for Fage, not to mention when the wetlands are under water.

 

What I found interesting -- rather than boiling milk for yogurt, Natural Probiotic Selection recommends bringing the milk to 65 degrees Celsius, or even better, holding the milk at 70 degrees Celsius for 30 minutes.  This struck me as a lot like the @Ruben Porto method of heating ice cream mix, as discussed in the ice cream thread.  (Except Ruben's ice cream method specifies 71 degrees Celsius for one hour.)

 

I never could get my head around boiling milk for yogurt.  I once did a detailed study (also reported in the ice cream thread) and boiled milk tastes vile.  Or at least it doesn't taste much like milk to me.

 

It will be a couple days before I have much to report.  I don't have a yogurt maker, but I do have a Precise Heat Mixing Bowl.

 

 

The reason for bringing milk to the REQUIRED TEMPERATURE is to convert some of the components so they can react with the organisms that PRESERVE the milk and produce the yogurt.

Failure to do this can result in UNWANTED bacteria taking over, even under refrigeration and causing illness.  

 

I posted the bulletin from the California Milk Board  August 10, 2010  

 

The only other thing that could be interfering with your result is not getting the milk up to at least 180° F. before cooling it to 105 to 115 before adding the culture.

If not heated sufficiently the "curd" won't form.

Following is a quote from the California Milk Board:

"Yogurt is formed by the growth of two bacterial organisms in milk; Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus which turn the milk sugars into lactic acid. These are two separate bacteria that are active at different times during processing. Some times you will also find yogurt that contains other ""Probiotic"" cultures such as Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium longum, and Bifidobacterium infantis which are bacterium normally found in your intestines. Together these bacteria aid in digestion and the synthesis of vitamins. Here are the required steps. Heat milk to between 180 and 200 °F. Heating the milk is done for a few reasons. First, to sterilize/pasteurize the milk so that the yogurt bacteria/culture has a hospitable place to grow in. It is not desirable to incubate contaminating bacteria that might be present in the unsterilized milk. Heating should be done even with pasteurized milk to help make a smooth thick yogurt. Heating the milk also helps stop the whey from separating out quite as much. You must then cool milk to 115 °F and add yogurt culture. (If the milk is too hot it will kill the yogurt bacteria.) Stir in yogurt culture gently until dissolved. Hold temperature at 105 to 110 °F for approximately 8-10 hours. This allows your ""good"" bacteria to grow. The methods listed in the post are suitable for this. Finally, you must refrigerate the processed yogurt for at least two hours. Refrigeration help slow the continued bacterial growth. If yogurt is not refrigerated it will become sour."

 

I have been making yogurt for 50 years.  The ONLY time I had a failure was when I tried a "short-cut" method which purported to be a "better and quicker" method.  And did not require HEATING THE MILK TO 180° F AND THEN COOLING IT TO 115°F to add the culture.

It was a total disaster and a total waste of a gallon of milk.

 

This was the yogurt I referenced in August 2010 - culture from New England Cheesemaking company.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

What can I say, @andiesenji we shall see.  I've looked into American and British pasteurization requirements.  Fortunately dairy pasteurizes more readily in the Western hemisphere.  Modernist Cuisine volume 1 has food safety tables for dairy pasteurization that are even less stringent than official government requirements.

 

I've made yogurt before but I probably haven't done so for fifty years.  If the result is a disaster I've wasted only a quart or so of milk and a few lines of typing.

 

[dtremit]

9 hours ago, andiesenji said:

 

Following is a quote from the California Milk Board:

"Yogurt is formed by the growth of two bacterial organisms in milk; Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus which turn the milk sugars into lactic acid. These are two separate bacteria that are active at different times during processing. Some times you will also find yogurt that contains other ""Probiotic"" cultures such as Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium longum, and Bifidobacterium infantis which are bacterium normally found in your intestines. Together these bacteria aid in digestion and the synthesis of vitamins. Here are the required steps. Heat milk to between 180 and 200 °F. Heating the milk is done for a few reasons. First, to sterilize/pasteurize the milk so that the yogurt bacteria/culture has a hospitable place to grow in. It is not desirable to incubate contaminating bacteria that might be present in the unsterilized milk. Heating should be done even with pasteurized milk to help make a smooth thick yogurt. 

 

Keep in mind that killing bacteria and deactivating enzymes via pasteurization is a function of temperature and time -- and that government recommendations to consumers typically only list the temperature required to pasteurize instantly. In many cases, the same results can be achieved by longer processing at lower temperatures. The process is slower at lower temperatures, but can still be reliably effective.

 

For example, US FDA tests milk pasteurization by detecting "the phosphatase enzyme, a constituent that is inactivated by pasteurization at 63°C (145°F) for thirty (30) minutes or 72°C (161°F) for fifteen (15) seconds." I would imagine that instant deactivation would probably happen right around 180°F.

 

(As an aside -- milk labeled as "ultra pasteurized" has been shocked to 280°F for extended shelf life. Unlike regular milk pasteurized at 145°F, the enzymes are already deactivated. I've had great luck making yogurt from ultra pasteurized milk without any preheating at all, though I always open a new container directly into the pot.)

Edited March 25, 2018 by dtremit (log)

[andiesenji]

On 3/25/2018 at 7:28 AM, dtremit said:

 

Keep in mind that killing bacteria and deactivating enzymes via pasteurization is a function of temperature and time -- and that government recommendations to consumers typically only list the temperature required to pasteurize instantly. In many cases, the same results can be achieved by longer processing at lower temperatures. The process is slower at lower temperatures, but can still be reliably effective.

 

For example, US FDA tests milk pasteurization by detecting "the phosphatase enzyme, a constituent that is inactivated by pasteurization at 63°C (145°F) for thirty (30) minutes or 72°C (161°F) for fifteen (15) seconds." I would imagine that instant deactivation would probably happen right around 180°F.

 

(As an aside -- milk labeled as "ultra pasteurized" has been shocked to 280°F for extended shelf life. Unlike regular milk pasteurized at 145°F, the enzymes are already deactivated. I've had great luck making yogurt from ultra pasteurized milk without any preheating at all, though I always open a new container directly into the pot.)

 

 

I have no answer to someone who obviously has all the answers.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I don't have all the answers but I am about three hours into a batch according to the instructions from Natural Probiotic Selection.  Note they have different recommendations depending on which culture of theirs that one is using.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

With ubiquitous Georgian preserved walnut.  Just like ice cream except it doesn't melt.  If I am dead in the morning you know it is E. coli or the KGB that got me.

 

 

[Anna N]

3 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

If I am dead in the morning you know it is E. coli or the KGB that got me.

 

 I think the KGB is dead so if the E. coli gets you you might meet up with them. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My second batch -- cultured with yogurt reserved from the previous Natural Probiotic Selection batch:

 

 

 

I found I could fit two one quart Rubbermaid Take Along screw cap jars in the PHMB.  After heating the milk and cream at 70 degrees C. as in my previous post, I allowed the mix to cool to 45 degrees and stirred in the reserved yogurt from the first batch.  I homogenized the mixture and poured it into the prepared jars.

 

Here I tried something new and possibly controversial.  I'd been reading the Brod & Taylor site about their proofing box which can be used as a slow cooker and as yogurt maker.  Brod & Taylor advocate a "high-low" method that involves finishing the yogurt at 30 degrees for greater smoothness and reduced whey separation.  I adapted this method.  Instead of culturing at 49 degrees for one hour, I cultured at 45 degrees for two hours.  I then reset the PHMB for 30 degrees and went to bed.

 

Total culturing time 12 hours.  Comparing the two batches the current batch was indeed smoother with no apparent whey separation.  Taste was about the same.  With some trepidation I turned the jar upside down and am pleased to report nothing fell out.

 

[kayb]

I have been using Fage as my starter (a single serve cup). Ran across a couple of packs of powdered starter in the freezer, and decided to use them on the last batch, in the name of clearing out the freezer.

 

Much, much tarter than my Fage yogurt. I like Fage better.

 

I use Nestle powdered milk (Nido Fortificado, with all its additives --- I know, I know -- you can also order the Frontier natural dry milk powder from Amazon, if you wish), and mix it twice the strength called for. Requires no straiing. I'm all about eliminating steps.

 

Just emptied my container today. Need to make more yogurt tomorrow.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@kayb I have not been straining mine.

 

[kayb]

1 minute ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@kayb I have not been straining mine.

 

I did when using regular milk, and when I mixed powdered milk at regular strength. I like thick, Greek-style yogurt (which it looks like what you're getting; kudos!). And it hit me one day....why add extra water and then strain it out as whey? So I went to the double strength.

 

Yogurt strainer, however, does excellent duty for ricotta. Which is the highest and best use of about-to-go-south milk.

 

[Shel_B]

I saw this video earlier.  Is there a way to use this technique without a crock pot?

Maybe in a warmed, cast iron pot instead of the crock pot? Or ... ?

 

 

Edited June 7 by Shel_B (log)

[Smithy]

1 hour ago, Shel_B said:

I saw this video earlier.  Is there a way to use this technique without a crock pot?

Maybe in a warmed, cast iron pot instead of the crock pot? Or ... ?

 

 

 

Sure. Note that the crock pot was "warmed but not on". You could do the same thing with a heavy pot that's warmed. Friends of mine used a glass jar although they may have been in a warmer climate than you. The main thing is to wrap it well so it stays warm. Putting the entire assembly into an insulated cooler / styrofoam chest (but NOT cooled) will protect the batch even more from cooling too quickly.

[Tropicalsenior]

I watched the video above and although I can see that it would work it is a whole lot more work than what I do to make mine. I make yogurt every Monday and today I decided to photograph and time my process.

The ingredients.

Milk, yogurt, dry whole milk powder.

 

The equipment that I use, not including my microwave. I have a Hamilton Beach convection oven that has a setting low enough to maintain the milk at a temperature of about 110°. Before I begin anything I set the oven to heat.

Making one container at a time, I pour the container half full of milk and add four heaping tablespoons of milk powder, mixing well. I fill it with the rest of the container of milk and heated in the microwave for 4 minutes. That brings it to a temperature of about 105°. I then add two tablespoons of yogurt and mix well. I then repeat with the other two containers. Using two loaf pans, I add two cups of water that I have microwaved for 2 minutes to each one. I put the containers of yogurt into the loaf fans and leave in the oven for 8 hours.

The whole process from taking the milk out of the refrigerator to putting everything in the oven took me 20 minutes and these days I'm pretty slow at doing things. The best thing was the only clean up that I had was washing the Whisk and the spoon.

My cost breakdown is equally satisfying. It cost me about $1.75 per liter compared to the $5 that a liter of yogurt would cost me.

I realize that not everyone has an oven with that lower temperature setting, but I have also successfully made yogurt using a heating pad on the lowest setting and a plastic container full of water to hold the yogurt containers. I much prefer using the oven.

 

[Tropicalsenior]

As for the part about making it into Greek yogurt, years ago I devised my own setup for that.

 it is just two plastic containers, one large one and one small one that fits comfortably

inside the other.

I cut the handle off a cheap, plastic strainer to fit on the top of the smaller container and I use a coffee filter to strain the yogurt. All you do is pour in the yogurt, snap on the lid, and put it in the refrigerator for 24 hours. You have perfect Greek yogurt. I've had it for about 20 years and at the time that I made it it probably cost me $2 to make.

[Shel_B]

10 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

The ingredients.

Milk, yogurt, dry whole milk powder.

 

@Tropicalsenior, Why dry whole milk?  Will your technique work with low fat or skimmed dry milk?  Is the liquid milk whole milk?  Thanks!

[weinoo]

11 minutes ago, Shel_B said:

@Tropicalsenior, Why dry whole milk?  Will your technique work with low fat or skimmed dry milk?  Is the liquid milk whole milk?  Thanks!

 

1. Because it's richer.

2. Try it and find out. 

3. It appears as if this yogurt is started with 2% milk.

 

My question:  do you use the yogurt you've made a starter, or do you consistently buy fresh yogurt to use as a starter?  It looks as if that yogurt you're using is an unopened container; has that been factored into your cost per liter?

[Shel_B]

33 minutes ago, weinoo said:

My question:  do you use the yogurt you've made a starter, or do you consistently buy fresh yogurt to use as a starter?  It looks as if that yogurt you're using is an unopened container; has that been factored into your cost per liter?

I've not made yogurt before. Not sure what you're referencing.

 

I'm not concerned about cost right now. I just want to try my hand at making yogurt.

Edited June 11 by Shel_B (log)

[liuzhou]

I use this yogurt machine which I bought for the equivalent of $8 USD fifteen years ago. It makes a litre at a time so that keeps me going for around a week.

 

 

Instead of using yogurt to 'seed' the new batch  I use these. This pack contains 50 x 10grams of starter. The pack of 50 costs me 40 cents, so each litre of yogurt costs less than a cent to start

 

 

 

I too use full fat milk topped up with powdered milk as I like a thick, creamy yoghurt which I drain to make Greek-style. Low fat or skimmed just doesn't do it for me.

 

 

[weinoo]

53 minutes ago, Shel_B said:

I've not made yogurt before. Not sure what you're referencing.

 

I'm not concerned about cost right now. I just want to try my hand at making yogurt.

My question was actually for @Tropicalsenior