Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza

[Chris Hennes]

Ortolana Pizza (KM p. 276)

on

High-Hydration Al Taglio with Second-Chance Levain (KM p. 81)

 

The toppings here are tomato sauce, pizza cheese, grilled zucchini, grilled eggplant, and grilled poblano pepper (the recipe calls for red bell pepper but I didn't have any at hand). I had to finish the pizza with a torch because I overtopped it a bit. Still, the topping combination is a delicious one, I'd make this again.

 

The dough is exactly the same as the standard Al Taglio except inactive levain replaces the mature levain. It has a slightly more sour flavor, but is otherwise very similar, and is still one of my favorite doughs from the book. It's certainly my favorite pan pizza dough. It crisps up very nicely on the reheat stage, and the multi-stage cooking process means you never have a gel layer, and it's easy to time dinner for when you want to eat, even on a weeknight.

 

[KennethT]

12 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Going only by appearance (obviously!) it looks a lot like the slice I had when I was in NY a couple of weeks ago, which is the one and only slice I have ever had in NYC. I actually had decided against posting about it because a) mine was from some random chain-looking place just off Union Square so I figured it wasn't really representative and b) it didn't have the big puffy rim that I thought was characteristic of the style. So I'm interested to see that I was wrong on that count, at least. Had I known that I was supposed to be seeking out Joe's I'd have gone there, I probably literally walked past it, you said they have a Union Square location, right?

The Joe's I order from practically once a week is close to Union Sq - it's on 14th St. just off the corner of 3rd Ave. between 3rd and 4th Aves.

[weinoo]

15 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

. Had I known that I was supposed to be seeking out Joe's I'd have gone there, I probably literally walked past it, you said they have a Union Square location, right?

 

Quite close - 14th St. right near 3rd (for next time!).

 

Of course I just saw that Ken posted its location!

Edited December 17, 2021 by weinoo (log)

[KennethT]

12 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Going only by appearance (obviously!) it looks a lot like the slice I had when I was in NY a couple of weeks ago, which is the one and only slice I have ever had in NYC. I actually had decided against posting about it because a) mine was from some random chain-looking place just off Union Square so I figured it wasn't really representative and b) it didn't have the big puffy rim that I thought was characteristic of the style. So I'm interested to see that I was wrong on that count, at least. Had I known that I was supposed to be seeking out Joe's I'd have gone there, I probably literally walked past it, you said they have a Union Square location, right?

Now I'm curious as to where you went!!!!  Do you remember the name of the place?

[scott123]

20 hours ago, weinoo said:

Let me know when you're going !!

 

Will do!!

[Chris Hennes]

12 hours ago, KennethT said:

Now I'm curious as to where you went!!!!  Do you remember the name of the place?

I just wandered around in Google Maps and I think it was Bravo, on E 14th.

[weinoo]

So I'm about to bake my first something or other, after time with the books. Of course I have a few problems with the books  (not the least of which is I think being a mathematician or holding a PhD in library sciences would probably go a long way), but I love the pictures, and the amount of info is staggering (even if some of that info is bullshit).

 

My first attempt will be this...

 

 

However, not made with the focaccia dough, because I surely didn't have a levain, which their dough recipe calls for. I also don't think it's the New York Square dough recipe, since I didn't follow those instructions perfectly either. Obviously, my problem is that I don't follow instructions or directions that well. At all!

 

However, in Book 2, they do give substitutes, so like a NY pizza can be made with their focaccia dough, and vice-versa. I think. The problem I see is that even after giving you their recommended substitution doughs, when you make one of the substitute doughs, they don't tell you how exactly it should be prepared for use as a substitute.  See - I told you it was confusing! Great pictures, though!

 

Maybe this will come out to be as great a pizza bianca (no recipe for that - boo!) as I've ever made?

 

Oh, that 1/4 sheet pan is really great, as it comes with a lid...

 

 

To be continued.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

25 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

I don't follow instructions or directions that well. At all!

 

 

Because you're a real cook.

[weinoo]

So...if we were to disregard my total not knowing what I was doing when I stuck the pan in the oven (these times are very distracting)...

 

 

Note the creases...

 

\

 

When I wasn't paying attention and I caught the top of the product on the shelf above while putting the pan into the oven.

 

 

It's not pizza bianca, it's not focaccia, it's not NY pizza, it's not NY Square.  But sliced in half with a piece of jamón serrano stuck in the middle, it's not half bad.

 

Much more studying is needed.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Neapolitan with poolish.  Same as my last half dozen or so attempts.  I think I may have let the dough ball cold ferment too long.  The first pie from this batch of dough baked fine.

 

[Duvel]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Neapolitan with poolish.  Same as my last half dozen or so attempts.  I think I may have let the dough ball cold ferment too long.  The first pie from this batch of dough baked fine.

 

Looks like that for the temperatures you are using you need to up your hydration (waaaay up) and look for artisanal flour with at least 14% asbestos. 
 

Don‘t give up - you are half way there 🥳

[weinoo]

So this dough was my attempt at NY style, no-knead style. 14 hour bulk fermentation. Then a day in fridge.  Then it morphed.

And it morphed into something a little delicious. A little more Al Taglio, actually. Cause I'm really bad at timing and stuff.

 

And how excited will @Chris Hennes and @rotuts be about this topping...

 

 

I kept a little of the broccoli raab and sausage aside when I made the pasta last night. So I prebaked the crust for like 15 minutes and threw on the topping for another 5 or so.

 

 

Nothing is ever gonna be even about any of the pizzas I make.

[Chris Hennes]

Is that a…. GREEN TOPPING?!?! What is the world coming to? Looks delicious.

[weinoo]

15 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Is that a…. GREEN TOPPING?!?! What is the world coming to? Looks delicious.

 

YES - but it's all A OK on an Al Taglio, no? Our first visit to Pizzarium freaked me out!

 

 

 

[weinoo]

Oh you're right, @Chris Hennes about the baking times.  My well-calibrated oven (with two thermometers inside) seems to bake much faster than they suggest.

[Raamo]

We made New York Style again, this time we made the sauce that MP suggests to go with it.  It's the wrong season for tomato leaves, but we do have some basil my wife is growing inside this winter.  It's very good sauce:

 

[Robenco15]

@Chris Hennes

 

the detroit pizza sauce makes a lot or pizza sauce, right? I didn’t mess something up?

[Robenco15]

My first ever Detroit Pizza and the first style my 3 year old actually ate all of. So regardless of how I think it went, it might be the best pizza I’ve ever made 😂 

 

Looks great!

Didn’t have white Wisconsin brick cheese so had to get yellow  

I went with the 150g of sauce. Next time going to do a little more  

There’s some frico  

My only issue is the crumb. Seems too tight. I used Cairnspring Glacier Peak bread flour but I’m not sure it was the flour this type of pizza.

Still delicious. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

7 hours ago, Robenco15 said:

the detroit pizza sauce makes a lot or pizza sauce, right? I didn’t mess something up?

Pretty much all of their sauce recipes are based on the size of a can of tomatoes, not on how much sauce you need for a given pizza. I always have lots of leftover sauce.

[Robenco15]

9 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Pretty much all of their sauce recipes are based on the size of a can of tomatoes, not on how much sauce you need for a given pizza. I always have lots of leftover sauce.

Oh definitely more than what’s needed for the pizza, but in this case it’s enough for 8 Detroit pizzas, lol. The Neapolitan sauce is enough for 4. That’s reasonable. I was more concerned I messed the math up because it’s all percentages. 

[rotuts]

@Robenco15 

 

the edge on your Detroit

 

is what its all about

 

the rest might be tasty , but its not Edge,

 

its there to fill you up .

[scott123]

20 hours ago, Robenco15 said:

My only issue is the crumb. Seems too tight. I used Cairnspring Glacier Peak bread flour but I’m not sure it was the flour this type of pizza.

 

https://cairnspring.com/products/glacier-peak-bread-flour?variant=35913921233061

 

Quote

Glacier Peak is the lighter, more sifted sibling to our beloved Trailblazer bread flour. We start with the Yecora Rojo varietal, and sift off a bit more bran and germ. You still get all of the delicious flavor, but it will perform more like a white flour.

 

By acting like tiny little knives in the dough, bran is effectively a crumb killer.  If a fluffy open crumb is the goal, then it's not about reducing the bran, but about removing it entirely.  Considering that you're using what I'd classify as a transitional whole wheat flour, you're achieving pretty amazing results, but, if an open crumb is your goal, you'll want to follow the Detroit playbook and use white flour.

As far as which white flour to use... Buddy's is the OG Detroit Pizzeria, and it's been confirmed that they use bromated flour.  There is no such thing as bromated all purpose, which would leave bromated bread flour or bromated high gluten.  At the thickness of Detroit, high gluten would be too chewy, leaving bread flour as the likely choice for authentic Detroit style pizza.   This being said, I've used both all purpose and bread flour, and I kind of like the softer crumb I get from all purpose- and I've seen some respected pizza guys use a mixture of both AP and bread.  Flour choice is a balance between openness/volume and chew.  The more protein in the flour, the greater the potential volume, but, also, the greater potential chewiness.  With all purpose, the crumb can be very soft, but not quite as open as bread flour, and with bread flour, that's reversed- very open, but not quite as soft.  Since you're looking for an open crumb, I might start with bread flour and see what you think.

 

Protein dictates water absorption, so bread flour will require a bit more water than all purpose. For Detroit, all purpose is happiest around 67% hydration, and bread flour is probably best around 69%.  Any more water than that and you're limiting the potential volume- by weakening the gluten framework and hindering oven spring. Technically, neither flour is made to handle this much water, but, you've got to reach the high 60s in order to get the dough into the pan without too many rests.

Bread flour will also take longer to proof than either your existing flour or all purpose, since it's capable of being proofed to a higher volume.  No recipe can ever tell you exactly how long to proof dough for, since there are too many environmental variables that are unique to you.  Make sure every ingredient is exactly the same temp every time, and proof at the same temp, and use trial and error to find the time frame where the dough is just about to collapse, but hasn't collapsed yet.  This is how you'll achieve the most open crumb possible.

Lastly, the thickness you have now is about right for Detroit.  As you move into a more open crumb, the final volume will be a bit too high, so you'll most likely need to scale down the dough a bit.

Edited December 30, 2021 by scott123 (log)

[weinoo]

I'm working on those no-knead doughs from MP. I'm pretty sure this is the Artisinal pizza dough, but don't quote me on that.

 

 

I'm also working on making round pizze, but have decided (in my dotage) that if it's not going to be round, let it be what it wants to be.

 

 

Quite tasty, in any event.

 

 

Sauce was simply canned San Marzano DOPs, hand crushed, with salt and oregano.  Significant Eater said they were great.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

 

I'm also working on making round pizze, but have decided (in my dotage) that if it's not going to be round, let it be what it wants to be.

 

 

Round only lasts until the first slice is cut, then it's a Pacman.

[Robenco15]

Haven’t gotten the Ooni out in awhile. Go wander over to “Cooking from Modernist Bread” in the Pastry section and you’ll understand why. 
 

Anyway, made Mod Pizza’s Neapolitan dough with Caputo Nuvola. May never use another flour for Neapolitan pizzas that only ferment for 24 hours. Used some shredded moz and Būf Mozzarella I had in the fridge. Sauce is just Bianco DiNapoli tomatoes and salt. Simple pizza tonight. 
 

Nice to see after almost 2 months I’ve still got it!