China Food Myths

[FlashJack]

30 minutes ago, Duvel said:

my father is called Otto

I have a darling friend who likes a salad I make him. It's by Ottolenghi. My friend always calls it the Noppo Spongi salad.

[liuzhou]

23. The Sesame Oil Surprise

 

 

This was brought to my attention by a Chinese friend who had been looking at YouTube videos featuring Chinese recipes. She noticed that many, many recipes marinated their proteins in the usual soy sauce, Chinese cooking wine and the not at all usual, very surprising sesame oil. What further baffled her was that some (a larger than expected minority) of these recipes were from people who claimed to be of Chinese or other Asian ethnicities.

 

I reminded her that many ethnically Chinese people living in the diaspora have never actually been to China and can be very westernised and in any case being of a certain ethnicity does not make you an expert on its cuisine or even cooking it. I know many Chinese people here in China who can’t boil an egg or make rice. My friend is self-admittedly a basic level cook, but a star basketball player.

 

Her surprise came from her knowing that Chinese sesame oil is valued for its flavour and aroma, both of which are highly volatile and disappear when heated. So, in Chinese cuisine, it is only applied as a condiment when the dish is being served and then off the heat, or perhaps occasionally unheated in a dipping sauce. It couldn't possible survive the way these recipes treat it. They could have saved time and achieved the same results by just pouring the oil down the toilet and missing out the middle man.

I defy anyone to marinate two samples of marinaded meat, one with and one without sesame oil, then tell me blindfolded which is which after it is cooked.

 

And for the antipodean clown who bought a gallon jar of sesame oil, I hope you have a huge fridge because it rapidly goes rancid and loses flavour if stored unrefrigerated after opening. My bottte is 100ml, the standard size here.

Edited October 17, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I hope you were not expecting an argument.

 

[liuzhou]

5 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I hope you were not expecting an argument.

 

 

I never post to promote arguments, but I'm sure some of the egotistical half-wits on YouTube would put up a fight.

Edited October 16, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

10 hours ago, liuzhou said:

23. The Sesame Oil Surprise

 

 

This was brought to my attention by a Chinese friend who had been looking at YouTube videos featuring Chinese recipes. She noticed that many, many recipes marinated their proteins in the usual soy sauce, Chinese cooking wine and the not at all usual, very surprising sesame oil. What further baffled her was that some (a larger than expected minority) of these recipes were from people who claimed to be of Chinese or other Asian ethnicities.

 

I reminded her that many ethnically Chinese people living in the diaspora have never actually been to China and can be very westernised and in any case being of a certain ethnicity does not make you an expert on its cuisine or even cooking it. I know many Chinese people here in China who can’t boil an egg or make rice. My friend is self-admittedly a basic level cook, but a star basketball player.

 

Her surprise came from her knowing that Chinese sesame oil is valued for its flavour and aroma, both of which are highly volatile and disappear when heated. So, in Chinese cuisine, it is only applied as a condiment when the dish is being served and then off the heat, or perhaps occasionally unheated in a dipping sauce. It couldn't possible survive the way these recipes treat it. They could have saved time and achieved the same results by just pouring the oil down the toilet and missing out the middle man.

I defy anyone to marinate two samples of marinaded meat, one with and one without sesame oil, then tell me blindfolded which is which after it is cooked.

 

And for the antipodean clown who bought a gallon far of sesame oil, I hope you have a huge fridge because it rapidly goes rancid and loses flavour if stored unrefrigerated after opening. My bottte is 100ml, the standard size here.

hear hear!!!  Whenever I see a recipe or video showing marinating in sesame oil, I run for the hills.

[liuzhou]

14 minutes ago, KennethT said:

hear hear!!!  Whenever I see a recipe or video showing marinating in sesame oil, I run for the hills.

 

Yet even websites that should know better repeat the myth. It isn't just YouTube.

The Woks of Life, The Spruce Eats etc.

[KennethT]

59 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Yet even websites that should know better repeat the myth. It isn't just YouTube.

The Woks of Life, The Spruce Eats etc.

It's true.  I've made a few things from Woks of Life and have been pretty happy with it - but I internally cringe when I see them doing that.  I understand adding some oil when marinating things - especially ground meats - I find it makes it easier to break up the clumps when they hit the wok - but using sesame oil is just a waste of money.

[Katie Meadow]

On 11/14/2020 at 5:09 AM, weinoo said:

Most "American" restaurants in the US (I'm not referring to big chains like Denny's/Applebee''s, et al.) forego salt & pepper on the table. 

That's because they used it all up in the food; at least the salt, and just a pepper shaker would look stupid.

[liuzhou]

In addition to my sesame oil surprise above, let me point out that we don't sprinkle sesame seeds on every dish. In fact, we do so extremely rarely.

 

I have literally hundreds of photographs of dishes cooked here by home cooks, restaurants and a few from me. I've been looking through them and can't find any with sesame seeds on them.

Edited December 20, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[shain]

On 4/6/2022 at 9:15 AM, liuzhou said:

In addition to my sesame oil surprise above, let me point out that we don't sprinkle sesame seeds on every dish. I fact we do so extremely rarely.

 

That's more of a Korean thing, I think. Obviously not every dish either.

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, shain said:

 

That's more of a Korean thing, I think. Obviously not every dish either.

 

I think it's more of an American thing. Just look at a McD's hamburger bun!

[shain]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

I think it's more of an American thing. Just look at a McD's hamburger bun!

 

If we're talking about pastry, I think we at the Middle East take the cake. There's sesame everywhere.

Though unlike in cooked dishes, sesame is pretty common in Chinese baked goods, pastry etc., isn't it?

[liuzhou]

3 minutes ago, shain said:

 

If we're talking about pastry, I think we at the Middle East take the cake. There's sesame everywhere.

Though unlike in cooked dishes, sesame is pretty common in Chinese baked goods, pastry etc., isn't it?

 

Yes, but baked goods and pastry are not actually that common and still, not many include sesame seeds.

Agree the Middle East is more prolific in its use of sesame than China or Korea.

Edited April 9, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[heidih]

4 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

I think it's more of an American thing. Just look at a McD's hamburger bun!

Yes I think it trends with the older 'if it has soy sauce and gingr of some sort" - we'll call it Asian.

[liuzhou]

24. Broccoli Background

 

 

I recently read somewhere (sorry I forget where) something about someone lamenting that he or she was no longer able to find broccoli and chicken. I'd never heard of the combination. Broccoli and beef, I had heard of but never eaten.

 

Although China now produces over half the world's supply of this vegetable, it is not at all traditional. Its Chinese name is 西兰花 (xī lán huā), which literally means 'Western Orchid'. 'Western' is used to indicate its origin, which is the Mediterranean region. It was only introduced to China as recently as the 1980s, but even 25 years ago when I arrived, it was very rarely available.

 

罗马花椰菜 (luó mǎ huā yé cà) or 宝塔花菜 (bǎo tǎ huā cài) - literally, 'pagoda cauliflower',  broccoli Romanesco only appeared  two years ago and baffled everyone!

 

The beef and broccoli dish is said by some to have been introduced by Chinese immigrants in the US, who substituted the broccoli for what they would otherwise use back in China. I don't entirely buy that theory as there seems to be no dish that comes close. 芥兰 (jiè lán), Cantonese 'gai lan', sometimes known as Chinese broccoli is only vaguely related, and is not usually served in that manner.

 

However, the beef and broccoli dish is certainly American. I guess the chicken variation is simply that - someone's idea to vary the choice.

 

When broccoli is served here, it is nearly always simply stir fried with garlic. Occasionally stir fried with ham.

 

Stir Fried Broccoli with Garlic

 

Some years ago, there was one small bar / restaurant in Liuzhou operated by a Dutch plumber and his Chinese girlfriend. The only vegetable they ever served from their small menu was boiled broccoli. The place didn't last long. Neither did the romantic relationship, but I don't know if broccoli was entirely to blame for that!

 

Broccoli Romanesco with Hunan Ham - All my own work. Cooking and photography!

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

3 hours ago, liuzhou said:

24. Broccoli Background

 

I recently read somewhere (sorry I forget where) something about someone lamenting that he or she was no longer able to find broccoli and chicken. I'd never heard of the combination. Broccoli and beef, I had heard of but never eaten.

 

Although China now produces over half the world's supply of this vegetable, it is not at all traditional. Its Chinese name is 西兰花 (xī lán huā), which literally means 'Western Orchid'. 'Western' is used to indicate its origin, which is the Mediterranean region. It was only introduced to China as recently as the 1980s, but even 25 years ago when I arrived, it was very rarely available.

 

罗马花椰菜 (luó mǎ huā yé cà) or 宝塔花菜 (bǎo tǎ huā cài) - literally, 'pagoda cauliflower',  broccoli Romanesco only appeared  two years ago and baffled everyone!

 

The beef and broccoli dish is said by some to have been introduced by Chinese immigrants in the US, who substituted the broccoli for what they would otherwise use back in China. I don't entirely buy that theory as there seems to be no dish that comes close. 芥兰 (jiè lán), Cantonese 'gai lan', sometimes known as Chinese broccoli is only vaguely related, and is not usually served in that manner.

 

However, the beef and broccoli dish is certainly American. I guess the chicken variation is simply that - someone's idea to vary the choice.

 

When broccoli is served here, it is nearly always simply stir fried with garlic. Occasionally stir fried with ham.

 

Stir Fried Broccoli with Garlic

 

Some years ago, there was one small bar / restaurant in Liuzhou operated by a Dutch plumber and his Chinese girlfriend. The only vegetable they ever served from their small menu was boiled broccoli. The place didn't last long.

 

Broccoli Romanesco with Hunan Ham

Broccoli is a vile weed and should be eradicated. KennethT is to broccoli as @liuzhouis to corn.

[liuzhou]

31 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Broccoli is a vile weed and should be eradicated. KennethT is to broccoli as @liuzhouis to corn.

 

I don't mind it, But far from my favourite.

[Katie Meadow]

I really hate broccoli; the smell of cooking broccoli is, to my mind, just awful.  But whatever it is that's sold around here as Chinese Broccoli or Gai Lan-- I love. If Chinese Broccoli with garlic is on the menu, I order it. I can eat a stir fry of the stuff with garlic and chile  and sauce over rice as a main dish.

[KennethT]

6 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

I really hate broccoli; the smell of cooking broccoli is, to my mind, just awful.  But whatever it is that's sold around here as Chinese Broccoli or Gai Lan-- I love. If Chinese Broccoli with garlic is on the menu, I order it. I can eat a stir fry of the stuff with garlic and chile  and sauce over rice as a main dish.

Here here!!!!

[Anna N]

I love broccoli but it is a vegetable that must be cooked perfectly (to my taste). It can go from perfect to mush in microseconds. Similarly, it goes from hot to cold in the same amount of time. It needs to be plated and served even faster than pasta!

[lindag]

I love the broccoli stems, the florets are okay but, to me anyway, the stems have much better flavor and texture.  Peeled, if nessary, and sliced thin, they're delicious, particularly in salads.

[Kim Shook]

38 minutes ago, Anna N said:

I love broccoli but it is a vegetable that must be cooked perfectly (to my taste). It can go from perfect to mush in microseconds. Similarly, it goes from hot to cold in the same amount of time. It needs to be plated and served even faster than pasta!

Yes to both statements.  I remember my grandmother discovering broccoli when I was a young adult (it wasn't big in the south in the 1960s and 70s).  She would start the pork chops, boiled potatoes, and broccoli all at the same time.  During one visit, I offered to take care of the broccoli and she and my granddaddy were shocked at how good it was cooked properly (to me that means just tender - no crunch and no mush).  And broccoli seems to have it's own air conditioning system.  If it is the last thing off the heat is it still beginning to get cold by the time we start eating.  

[rotuts]

@Kim Shook 

 

"  just tender "

 

yup.      but still w some crunch for

 

' Wok-style '  dishes.

[Kim Shook]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

@Kim Shook 

 

"  just tender "

 

yup.      but still w some crunch for

 

' Wok-style '  dishes.

Not a fan of crunch in hot broccoli.  When I get lemon chicken at our Chinese restaurant, I always give the broccoli and Mr. Kim - they just lightly steam it and I can't bear that.  I don't eat the stems at ALL except for in broccoli slaw.  My MIL was appalled the first time I served her broccoli when she saw how close cut the florets were.  I just hate cooked stems.  

[rotuts]

for me :

 

if I see ' longer stem ' Brocc

 

Ill try it

 

and work a bit with the  stem