China Food Myths

[liuzhou]

The sweet and sour squirrel fish above is also sometimes called 糖醋菊花鱼 (táng cù jú huā yú) or Sweet & Sour Chrysanthemum Fish.

[liuzhou]

Back in this post, I mentioned mustard sauce as served in American Chinese cuisine being unknown here and, in fact, never having seen such a thing. I wrote:

 

On 2/10/2021 at 2:29 PM, liuzhou said:

China's largest on-line shopping site Taobao doesn't list it. (They do have imported Dijon, whole grain mustard, American mustard etc at import prices - but nothing Chinese).

 

@Tropicalseniorsaid:
 

Quote

working in the restaurant business myself, if I wanted to know what something was or how it was made I always asked. The least they can do is tell you no. The answer really surprised me. The red stuff came right out of a ketchup bottle (no, I didn't know what ketchup tastes like, I never eat it), and the hot Chinese mustard was plain old Coleman's mustard powder mixed with water.

 

 

A couple of days ago, I was searching for something else and came across this. I had to order it, purely out of amusement. It arrived yesterday evening.

 

 

I love the lame attempt to mimic Coleman's iconic packaging. The mustard inside looks like it should, but I haven't tasted it yet. Will report back.

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[Tropicalsenior]

Just out of curiosity, how is Char Siu typically served in China? I haven't been in a Chinese restaurant in the US for years but many used to serve it sliced with ketchup, mustard and sesame seeds. I've never seen it served that way in any other country. It is used strictly as an ingredient in other dishes.

[KennethT]

41 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Just out of curiosity, how is Char Siu typically served in China? I haven't been in a Chinese restaurant in the US for years but many used to serve it sliced with ketchup, mustard and sesame seeds. I've never seen it served that way in any other country. It is used strictly as an ingredient in other dishes.

I don't know about the rest of China, but in Hong Kong it's typically served with a thin, slightly sweet soy based sauce.  I thought I had done a food blog of Hong Kong but I can't find it right now... but in this post there's a good example if you scroll midway down the post.

[liuzhou]

2 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Just out of curiosity, how is Char Siu typically served in China? I haven't been in a Chinese restaurant in the US for years but many used to serve it sliced with ketchup, mustard and sesame seeds. I've never seen it served that way in any other country. It is used strictly as an ingredient in other dishes.

 

On the mainland, many ways. It is used in bao (buns), in fried rice, as an appetiser with dips as @KennethTdescribes, in soups, noodle dishes, ...

[KennethT]

11 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

On the mainland, many ways. It is used in bao (buns), in fried rice, as an appetiser with dips as @KennethTdescribes, in soups, noodle dishes, ...

@Tropicalsenior Yes, the same as above in HK too.  I just misunderstood your question as to how it was served with just the meat, like as an appetizer.  But the cooked meat is incorporated into a bunch of things in HK - steamed and baked buns, in fried rice, noodle soups, etc.  Also, served over white rice for a complete lunch.

[liuzhou]

Here's another example of myth making coming from an American-Chinese writer on Spruce Eats.

 

Quote

I am Chinese, Han by blood, and I grew up happy to eat Chicken and Broccoli—a vegetable that doesn’t even grow in China

 

 

China grows, by far, the most broccoli on the planet. 10,263, 746 tonnes a year! It isn't served as Chicken and Broccoli though!

 

 

[Kerala]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:30 PM, liuzhou said:

Back in this post, I mentioned mustard sauce as served in American Chinese cuisine being unknown here and, in fact, never having seen such a thing. I wrote:

 

 

@Tropicalseniorsaid:
 

 

A couple of days ago, I was searching for something else and came across this. I had to order it, purely out of amusement. It arrived yesterday evening.

 

 

I love the lame attempt to mimic Coleman's iconic packaging. The mustard inside looks like it should, but I haven't tasted it yet. Will report back.

 

 

 

How was it?

[Midlife]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:53 PM, liuzhou said:

Here's another example of myth making coming from an American-Chinese writer on Spruce Eats.

 

 

China grows, by far, the most broccoli on the planet. 10,263, 746 tonnes a year! It isn't served as Chicken and Broccoli though!

 

 

Is it possible that the post you quote is referring to the ‘western’ type of broccoli we see throughout the US? That’s what is served as ‘broccoli beef’’ in most Americanized Chinese restaurants here. Wondering if the “broccoli” grown in such large quantity in China is Gai Lan (Chinese Broccoli).

[liuzhou]

4 hours ago, Kerala said:

How was it?

 

Still haven't used it.

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, Midlife said:

Is it possible that the post you quote is referring to the ‘western’ type of broccoli we see throughout the US? That’s what is served as ‘broccoli beef’’ in most Americanized Chinese restaurants here. Wondering if the “broccoli” grown in such large quantity in China is Gai Lan (Chinese Broccoli).

 

No. It is referring to western style broccoli.

 

 

 

[Midlife]

13 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

No. It is referring to western style broccoli.

 

 

 

Is it grown for export or consumed locally?

[liuzhou]

30 minutes ago, Midlife said:

Is it grown for export or consumed locally?

 

locally

[Midlife]

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

locally

Interesting. Would you happen to have a thought as to why it seems that Western broccoli is served almost entirely at ‘Americanized’ Chinese restaurants in the US, and you don’t usually find it at the more regional cuisine-based Chinese places? At least that’s been my experience. 
 

I’ve been known to judge a place’s ‘authenticity’ by the type of broccoli served. Am I wrong?

[liuzhou]

I've always considered the American name 'Chinese broccoli' to be ridiculous. Although both broccoli and what you call gailan (芥兰 - jiè lán in 95% of China) are both members of members of the Brassicaceae family, so are many other vegetables including turnips, kale, mustard, all the cabbages etc. I strongly advise disassociating the two in your mind.

 

I have no experience of "Americanized Chinese" cuisine. American-Chinese cuisine and Chinese-Chinese cuisine are two very different entities.

 

Broccoli is certainly used in regional Chinese cooking but not in the way it is used in America. I mentioned broccoli back in this post.

 

Quote

I’ve been known to judge a place’s ‘authenticity’ by the type of broccoli served. Am I wrong?

 

Yes.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[AlaMoi]

"...no experience of "Americanized Chinese" cuisine."

 

very lucky fellow!  simply following some of your posts, I can assure you - it's all fake.

 

that said - if it tastes good, just remove the labels and enjoy . . .

[Katie Meadow]

It may be ridiculous to call gai lan Chinese Broccoli, but in most restaurants around here that's what it means on the menu. I always check before ordering, since I detest regular broccoli and I love gai lan.  So yeah, I think they are pretty different.  Gai lan is most often served here as part of the vegetable section,  by itself in a garlicky sauce. Broccoli is often served in a mixed stir fry with other vegetables or beef. And they definitely look different as well as taste different.

[KennethT]

8 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

It may be ridiculous to call gai lan Chinese Broccoli, but in most restaurants around here that's what it means on the menu. I always check before ordering, since I detest regular broccoli and I love gai lan.  So yeah, I think they are pretty different.  Gai lan is most often served here as part of the vegetable section,  by itself in a garlicky sauce. Broccoli is often served in a mixed stir fry with other vegetables or beef. And they definitely look different as well as taste different.

Gai lan is Cantonese, which, up until the last 5-10 years or so, was the predominant language of Chinese immigrants to the US as most of them came from Hong Kong.  Years ago, on a trip to Hong Kong, I found the term gai lan used and understood everywhere we went.  A few years later, on a trip to Beijing, we found that literally no one understood what gai lan meant, and we found out halfway through the trip that in Putong Hua (Mandarin), it's jie lan, as @liuzhou wrote up thread.  We even had a waiter (who moonlighted as an English translator) write it down for us on a card so we could show service staff for the rest of our trip to avoid further confusion. So, Liuzhou is correct when he says that 95% of Chinese in China don't call it gai lan - but since the vast majority of immigrants to the US came from Hong Kong years ago among whom Cantonese was the predominant language, it's called gai lan everywhere here.

[Midlife]

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

I've always considered the American name 'Chinese broccoli' to be ridiculous. Although both broccoli and what you call gailan (芥兰 - jiè lán in 95% of China) are both members of members of the Brassicaceae family, so are many other vegetables including turnips, kale, mustard, all the cabbages etc. I strongly advise disassociating the two in your mind.

 

I have no experience of "Americanized Chinese" cuisine. American-Chinese cuisine and Chinese-Chinese cuisine are two very different entities.

 

Broccoli is certainly used in regional Chinese cooking but not in the way it is used in America. I mentioned broccoli back in this post.

 

 

Yes.

 

I think I’ve got it now. I think the majority (maybe only) of the time I see “broccoli” on a Chinese restaurant menu it’s in Beef w/ Broccoli and at a “Chinese-American” restaurant or a Panda Express, and is definitely western broccoli. I just assumed it was because the restaurants were playing to American preferences. Come to think of it, Gai Lan IS served as a separate dish with a sauce.  So my issue is really simply whether or not the place has Gai Lan on the menu, with Broccoli Beef being legitimate. 

[liuzhou]

3 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

I detest regular broccoli and I love gai lan.

 

Yes, that many people dislike broccoli but like 'gailan', including you and @KennethTrather bears out that they are very different.

 

1 hour ago, Midlife said:

Gai Lan IS served as a separate dish with a sauce.

 

As are most green vegetables in China.

 

 

[KennethT]

3 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

 I detest regular broccoli and I love gai lan.

Amen to this.  Regular broccoli is a vile weed and should be rendered extinct.

[liuzhou]

3 hours ago, KennethT said:

We even had a waiter (who moonlighted as an English translator) write it down for us on a card so we could show service staff for the rest of our trip to avoid further confusion.

 

 

Do you remember what the written name looked like? There are two ways I see it written in Simplified Chinese as used in mainland China. 芥兰 or 芥蓝, pronounced identically. Then, just to confuse things further, in Traditional Chinese and so in Cantonese as used in Hong Kong and in much of the diaspora it can be 芥蘭 or 芥藍!

 

Don't make the mistake of only remembering the first character. Many vegetables begin with that character. You could even end up with wasabi!

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[Katie Meadow]

32 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Amen to this.  Regular broccoli is a vile weed and should be rendered extinct.

A wild guess, but broccoli will probably be one of the last species on Earth to go extinct. Just my luck.

[liuzhou]

3 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

A wild guess, but broccoli will probably be one of the last species on Earth to go extinct. Just my luck.

 C⊘rn will last longer, I'm sure!

[Katie Meadow]

3 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 C⊘rn will last longer, I'm sure!

I hope so!  Achh, you and your corn phobia! If it wasn't for corn we wouldn't have huitlacoche. How sad is that?