Chocolate brands - What's good and bad?

[Rajala]

I'm considering opening up a little webshop to sell some chocolate and some other stuff, and one important thing is to source the products you work with. Chocolate is one of these. So I'm trying to look at various brands and see what's good and what's bad, I'm also thinking about brands that I don't know off, and I'd rather buy from a smaller company doing their own thing than from publicly traded giants such as Savencia Fromage and Dairy or Barry Callebaut. But in the end, price is of course always important. If money wasn't an issue, Original Beans is the one to pick. But it always is, unfortunately.  

 

You may wonder why I have soy lecithin listed under cons; it's simply because I've spoken with chocolatiers who have told me that customers who comes in to their stores ask about chocolate without soy lecithin. I was at an event where one guy pushed a Barry Callebaut rep really hard about this, so it actually seems to be a real concern where we live (I hadn't heard about it prior to this event.) I'm not saying that I'll not work with chocolate who have this, because so far I've only found a two brands which doesn't use it.

 

This is my "research" so far, please let me know of brands that I've excluded due to lack of knowledge. I don't have plans at the moment to only work with a single brand, but it's easier to get good quotes if you buy in higher volume and it is of course good if the customer can expect the product to taste fairly the same, if they come back for more!

 

Callebaut

 

Pros

- Affordable

- Taste is good enough

 

Cons

- Soy lecithin 

- Haven't tried all their variants, but most of what I've tried have a weird texture, like there's sugar you can feel on your tongue

 

Cacao Barry

 

Pros

- Great taste and texture at a mid segment price

- Single plantation chocolate available which is bio certified (and tastes good)

 

Cons

- Soy lecithin

 

Valrhona

 

Pros

- Good product range

- Great taste and texture

 

Cons

- High price

- Soy lecithin

 

Michel Cluizel

 

Pros

- Great taste and texture

- Rapeseed lecithin

- Mini "callets". Will melt fast.

 

Cons

- Price. More expensive than Cocoa Barry, but not as expensive as Valrhona. Although close.

 

Original Beans

 

Pros

- Great company with products from very good causes such as Femmes de Virunga

- Every product is bio certified

- Great taste and texture

- No lecithin

 

Cons

- Price. Some variants more expensive than Valrhona.

 

Casa Luker

 

Pros

- Great quote on price

- Taste? (just got samples delivered today, haven't had the time to taste them yet. Delivered too chilled, need to wait a bit for it to reach normal temperatures)

 

Cons

- Soy lecithin

- Very big "callets". Almost needs to be chopped up before melting to save time.

[pastrygirl]

Felchlin has a few formulations without soy, the Arriba 72% is one that I use.  Price-wise, they have a range; I believe the  ones without soy are also the ones with a very long conch time and tend to be more expensive, closer to Valrhona pricing. 

 

I get the soy question occasionally, somewhere between the number of people looking for sugar free and the number looking for vegan.  I don't think the soy lecithin in chocolate is enough to trigger an allergy, people may be more concerned about GMO soy or something else that may or may not be pseudoscience woo.  So it's one concern, but personally  not high on my list.  You can't please everyone all the time!

[teonzo]

I would suggest to give a try to these 2:

- Belcolade (no lecithin if I'm right);

- Weiss

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Rajala]

43 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Felchlin has a few formulations without soy, the Arriba 72% is one that I use.  Price-wise, they have a range; I believe the  ones without soy are also the ones with a very long conch time and tend to be more expensive, closer to Valrhona pricing. 

 

I get the soy question occasionally, somewhere between the number of people looking for sugar free and the number looking for vegan.  I don't think the soy lecithin in chocolate is enough to trigger an allergy, people may be more concerned about GMO soy or something else that may or may not be pseudoscience woo.  So it's one concern, but personally  not high on my list.  You can't please everyone all the time!

 

Yeah, I don't think it will happen all the time. He mentioned something about soy being dangerous because they use gasoline to get the lecithin out or something, haven't fact checked that yet though. It comes and goes as well, I guess - what people have concerns about. I'll see if I can test Felchlin, not sure if I have a local supplier of that.

 

22 minutes ago, teonzo said:

I would suggest to give a try to these 2:

- Belcolade (no lecithin if I'm right);

- Weiss

 

 

 

Teo

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I've seen Belcolade mentioned in works by Stéphane Leroux, but I've never seen it for sale anywhere. Weiss is a new one for me.

[understandingcocoa]

Casa Luker was a big no on taste for me, I taste tasted it on a group of friends (after getting free samples of at least 10 varieties) and it was negative feedback all round. It all seemed to have a very smokey/whisky like taste too.

 

Interested to see what you think of them!

 

 

[Rajala]

2 minutes ago, understandingcocoa said:

Casa Luker was a big no on taste for me, I taste tasted it on a group of friends (after getting free samples of at least 10 varieties) and it was negative feedback all round. It all seemed to have a very smokey/whisky like taste too.

 

Interested to see what you think of them!

 

  

 

I'll let you know. I'm going to have a taste session at work to see what my colleagues think.  

[Tri2Cook]

2 hours ago, Rajala said:

Chocolate brands - What's good and bad?
 

What's good is what you like. What's bad is what you don't like. In case you think I'm being flippant, I'm not. Watch the replies (once this gets rolling some more) and see how many different chocolates are listed as good or bad and how many of the same chocolates are listed as good by one person and bad by another. Taste and use what you like. Don't worry about what someone else thinks about it unless they're giving you their money for it.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Tri2Cook (log)

[Rajala]

1 minute ago, Tri2Cook said:

What's good is what you like. What's bad is what you don't like. In case you think I'm being flippant, I'm not. Watch the replies and see how many different chocolates are listed as good or bad and how many of the same chocolates are listed as good by one person and bad by another. Taste and use what you like. Don't worry about what someone else thinks about it unless they're giving you their money for it.

 

That is true. But it's always interesting to hear opinions and have discussions.  

[Tri2Cook]

24 minutes ago, Rajala said:

 

But it's always interesting to hear opinions and have discussions.  

Yes it is, wasn't trying to persuade you otherwise. I was just thinking more along the lines of don't let someone telling you a chocolate is good or bad convince you it's good or bad. If it's something you were considering, maybe let being told it's bad convince you to start with a very small amount. But I'd do that even if told it's good... just in case I happen to disagree after tasting it.

[keychris]

For me, it all comes down to taste. Unless you have serious concerns about the moral values of a company (I'm looking at a company that starts with N and rhymes with Nestle here), taste trumps all. Don't lock yourself into one supplier. I did that at the start of my chocolate making, I was very single minded in using just one brand (Felchlin) because their price point is excellent for me. But over the past 5 years, I've tasted a lot of different brands of chocolate, from the little bean to bar shops to big companies, and what I choose to put into my products comes down to what the flavours I'm looking for are. So I've expanded my range to include things from local producers using international beans, local producers using Australian beans, overseas... whatever tastes good.

 

I've only been asked twice in 5 years about the soy lecithin ingredient. For me, that's a non-issue in terms of volume. If you're going to cater to that market with an inferior product or a more expensive product then ... that's your decision 😛 

 

The other thing I'd add is that if you're starting a web-based business, I would try to do local markets as well, selling face to face and get word into the local community about your products so that you have a base of support that will purchase your product and tell other people about them. It's also a great way to find out what people like and dislike, or what people are actually looking for from you.

[Rajala]

Great suggestions and tips.

 

I have no issues with buying different brands, that will only be a problem when I'm famous and have some partnership with a brand. 😂

 

At the moment, I do favor Cocoa Barry because I love their Madirofolo chocolate. But I also tried some amazing variants from Michel Cluizel. But I don't really know if the average Jane would notice if you use the standard stuff from Callebaut or Michel Cluizel. At the moment I'm just playing around with different brands, trying to come up with some good recipes, so I can have a selection of maybe 15-20 different bonbons. Maybe an idea would be to offer a selection of some which are soy free - and see if anyone actually is interested in that.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Rajala
Grammar? Maybe it was correct before edit, no idea. :) (log)

[Avachocolate]

4 hours ago, Rajala said:

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I've seen Belcolade mentioned in works by Stéphane Leroux, but I've never seen it for sale anywhere. Weiss is a new one for me.

I would consider Belcolade a budget-midrange chocolate (no matter the Stephane Leroux marketing...)...their taste is not bad, but in their price range and market segment I would be highly surprised if they dont use soy lecithin in all of them.

I know for a fact that some of their chocolates have soy lecithin listed as an ingredient, but not sure about their whole range.

They seem to be mostly sold in asia and some parts of europe.

It is a decent chocolate but in my opinion it does not compare well to Cacao Barry, Valrhona or Cluizel..but it is also considerably cheaper (around 8-9 euros/kg for most of their lineup).

I have never had anybody ask me about soy lecithin in my chocolates...at all....your market may vary of course.

[keychris]

26 minutes ago, Avachocolate said:

 

It is a decent chocolate but in my opinion it does not compare well to Cacao Barry, Valrhona or Cluizel..but it is also considerably cheaper (around 8-9 euros/kg for most of their lineup).

 

"You get what you pay for"

[Bentley]

In preparation for launching a business venture, I have spoken to a number of successful chocolatiers, and the main lesson I learned was that chocolate is a business. You have to make sure that your margins are acceptable and that means watching your cost of goods sold like a hawk.  All of the chocolatiers I spoke to used a wide variety of chocolates in their confections.  It was a mix that allowed an average chocolate cost that was reasonable for the blended margins they were trying to achieve.  You wouldn't just use a single origin grand cru couverture for everything because you could never charge enough to run a decent profit.  You might use it for one piece in your collection, but it wouldn't make sense to enrobe your Oreos with it.  Some pieces are about featuring a particular chocolate and in other cases the chocolate is a vehicle for another flavor.  

 

Everyone I spoke to used just about every one of the chocolates on your list for one application or another, so don't feel you have to choose just one.  

 

[Avachocolate]

@Bentley......great point and well explained !

[paulraphael]

On 7/6/2018 at 3:50 PM, Tri2Cook said:

What's good is what you like. What's bad is what you don't like.

 

It's hard to give much better guidance than that. 20 years ago or so the landscape was simpler. There was Valrhona, if you wanted the best, then there were a handful of good, higher value brands like Callebaut, and then there was a whole lot of junk.

 

Today it's more like wine and coffee. There are more high-end chocolates than anyone can count, including tiny artisanal bean-to-bar producers who seem to be cropping up everywhere. Most attention is on single-origin chocolates that are appreciated for their complexity and distinctiveness. Valrhona probably isn't even considered top-tier anymore. 

 

I still consider Callebaut an excellent value brand; it's more than good enough for anything where the distinctiveness of a single-origin chocolate won't shine through, and costs 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the highest end chocolates. Like most value brands, the flavors are solid but not especially interesting.

 

Seventypercent.com used to be a great review site; it's useless now. If anyone knows a good one, please share. It was useful back in its day.

 

 

[Rajala]

Thanks for all the good advice. There won't be large volumes, at least in the beginning. There are lots of things to do except creating the selection of bonbons, like designing packages, do some coding for the webshop and designing that as well.

 

Based on all the input, I think I'll go with Cocoa Barry in the beginning and see if people asks for products without soy and use Michel Cluizel when needed. I tried some products from a local shop, which I know are using Callebaut, and the texture in that chocolate compared to the mid tier priced products from Cocoa Barry was really noticeable. And it's not like I'm any kind of expert.

[ChocoMom]

I've only perused this thread briefly, and saw a mention of Felchlin. I can't possibly convey all the joys of Felchlin here.  The taste, texture, incredibly easy to work with. Yes, it might be a little on the high side in terms of pricing, but worth every. single. penny.  or franc, or whatever.  I only use it for one or two pieces, and it is such a treat!!!!

 

My workhorse is E. Guittard, which has no soy lecithin.  The soy has been replaced with sunflower lecithin in most, if not all, of their chocolates, as far as I know. I've got 4 different ones here, and none contain soy. 

 

Do give the Felchlin a try, if you have the opportunity.  

 

 

   

[Tri2Cook]

I think a person's market has to be part of the equation as well. It can factor into what level constitutes "good" for the people buying it. There's nobody doing chocolate work at any level within several hours of where I live that I'm aware of. Anything I use that ranks above the bags of chocolate chips in the grocery store is great as far as the local customer base in concerned. What that means for me is, if I can charge X amount for chocolates using Callebaut, that doesn't mean I'll get away with charging Y amount if I start using Valrhona. A large part of the local customer base won't care enough to pay more. It's an area high on my list of concerns as I begin to venture into making my own chocolate... whether I'm going to be able to sell it for enough where I live to be worth doing. 

[keychris]

36 minutes ago, ChocoMom said:

I can't possibly convey all the joys of Felchlin here.  The taste, texture, incredibly easy to work with. Yes, it might be a little on the high side in terms of pricing 

 

That's interesting, because Felchlin is actually one of the cheaper brands I can get here

[tikidoc]

Albert Uster sells Felchin. I really like the Maracaibo for dark and milk. The Eidelweiss is an edible white (I consider most whites to be not really edible, so that’s a pretty high compliment for a white for me).

[Jim D.]

Let me add my praise of Felchlin. I regularly use Maracaibo dark and Maracaibo Criolait milk. Albert Uster has free shipping (if I buy enough) and good customer service. A few minutes ago I picked up some leftover Maracaibo dark I had firming up on parchment in the kitchen and scarfed it down--couldn't resist. I am very surprised that Felchlin is a less expensive brand in Australia because in the U.S. it is about the same as Valrhona, but as @ChocoMom wrote "worth every. single. penny.  or franc, or whatever." I think Valrhona Caraibe tastes very much like it, and if the political situation in Venezula ever puts an end to Maracaibo, that will be my substitute. I have tried the various Felchlin whites, but found them too sweet. For white, it's Valrhona's Opalys for me, as difficult as it is to work with. For milk chocolate ganaches, I often use Fortunato No. 4, which is amazing in taste.

[tikidoc]

There is an AUI rep in my area, and as long as I’m not in a huge hurry, he will either meet me somewhere locally or drop off orders to my office when he is coming to visit other customers in the Richmond area. Handy when getting frozen purées. I don’t spend a whole lot of money, maybe $200-300 once or twice a year, but he has been very helpful and supportive.

[pastrygirl]

48 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I am very surprised that Felchlin is a less expensive brand in Australia because in the U.S. it is about the same as Valrhona,

 

The Felchlin grand crus are up there with Valrhona but they have some non-grand crus that are more reasonable.  Blends, I guess.  I like their Sao Palme 60%, which does have soy if we're still concerned. 

 

For white, I like Callebaut Zephyr.  Again, it has soy, but is moderately priced and not achingly sweet.

 

 

[Rajala]

Felchlin is at Valrhona levels here as well. Even the variations you mention, as the cheaper ones, are expensive. I do like that they offer dairy free milk and white chocolate.