Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

EsaK · February 9, 2016

16 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@EsaK it sounds like your recipe is relatively low fat. As I've mentioned before, adding a bit of alcohol to the mix will make the ice cream softer. Whether it will make it better or not is another question.

My most recent ice cream experiment was to see if I could scale down the volume of my mix for when I was making ice cream only for myself. I used 600 g of cream, 72 g of sugar, 4 yolks and a pinch of salt. Prepared as usual in the PHMB for one hour. I could tell by looking at the mix that the reduction by evaporation was too much but I decided to continue on with the spin and hardening to see what happened.

Yes, the one mentioned in the post was relatively low fat even though it was all whole milk and the brittle had fat in it too. Alcohol is one thing I haven't yet tried adding to the ice cream although that has been on the list for a while. I'm still wondering (I think you are but not 100% sure if I can read that from what you wrote ) whether you are able to scoop for example those ice creams that have alcohol in them, straight out of the freezer after being there for +1 day? Or is it "normal" that after it has been in the freezer for little longer you need to keep it in room temp for 15mins or so and then scoop?

JoNorvelleWalker · February 9, 2016

It's been a long time since I've used alcohol [in ice cream] however as I recall, yes, the ice cream with alcohol was scoopable right out of the freezer.

But so is the ice cream as I make it these days!

paulraphael · February 9, 2016

Back in the days when all milk was raw, most recipes called for "scalding" it for various reasons, including killing pathogens, denaturing some of the milk proteins that can interfere with gluten development in bread, and who knows what else. Scalding meant bringing it to a simmer. If you wanted to add eggs right away to make a custard, you had to temper them first so they wouldn't scramble. These steps have long outlived their original purpose.

Nowadays there's no need to scald the milk in the first place. Even if you were using raw milk, we know that there are benefits to pasteurizing the ice cream mix as a whole, after everything's been mixed, and that this can be combined with the custard-making process. So you might as well just add the eggs when the milk is cold. Easy peasy.

mono- and di-glycerides are emulsifiers that you'd have to buy as a specialty ingredient, like from Modernist Pantry. I haven't used them, but some pastry chefs do when they want to avoid using eggs entirely.

Here's a stabilizer / emulsifier blend used by Francisco Migoya, who was Thomas Keller's pastry chef and who will be collaborating with the Modernist Cuisine team on their dessert series. This blend is stored and used as a single ingredient. He recommends using it in eggless ice creams at 0.35% by weight.

100g Xanthan Gum
175g CP Kelco Unflavored Locust Bean Gum
175g TIC Gums Pretested Flavorless Guar Gum
50g Mono-glycerides
50g Di-glycerides

FWIW, I've tried using this stabilizer formula in an ice cream with eggs ( minus the emulsifiers), and did not care for the texture. I've eventually come to believe xanthan gum isn't the best choice in ice cream stabilizer blends. But that's just my opinion ... I'd encourage you to start by taking Migoya's advice over mine.

pastryani · February 10, 2016

Thanks Paul for the info. All those ingredients to replace eggs huh? I think I'll try the ice cream with them first!

paulraphael · February 10, 2016

The most compelling reason to replace eggs is if you don't want the ice cream to taste like eggs. Even then, you can do fine by reducing the number of yolks—which is generally what I do.

I wouldn't consider all those ingredients egg replacements, though. Most pastry chefs use some kind of stabilizer blend, even if they're making a French-style ice cream with a ton of egg. Such a blend might contain all those ingredients, or everything except the emulsifiers (the gylcerides).

While the stabilizer blend looks like a lot of stuff, its advantage is that it works in minute quantities. By weight you'd use between 1/10 and 1/30 as much as you'd use egg yolk. So you can get the texture modification of egg without the interference in flavor release, or the egg flavor itself.

Some people look at modern ingredients like these as "additives." But if an additive is an ingredient that doesn't contribute anything you want toward flavor, I'd consider egg yolks additives in ice cream. Then it becomes a simpler question ... which additive to I prefer? The yolks or the powder?

Edited February 10, 2016 by paulraphael (log)

mgaretz · February 12, 2016

The other day I made an experimental flavor, inspired by a Ghirardelli bar that someone gave us for the holidays. Cherry/chocolate/almond. Made dairy-free of course! It came out pretty good, but next time I will cut the almond extract back.

200 gm Precision Foods soft-serve mix (vanilla)

16 oz almond milk, unsweetened

1/8 cup Torani cherry syrup

1/8 cup cherry snow cone syrup

3 tbs cocoa powder

2 tbs almond extract

The syrups contain propylene glycol and the almond extract has some alcohol, so these kept the ice cream easily scoopable with a normal teaspoon right out of the freezer.

cherry-choc-almond.jpg.43d197cf3cf011544

Edited February 12, 2016 by mgaretz
forgot the cocoa (log)

mgaretz · February 12, 2016

For those of you, like me, that are lactose intolerant, I have been experimenting with using lactose-free real dairy products. I wish I could find lactose-free cream, but no one in the US seems to distribute it. Closest I can find is Horizon Lactose-free Half and Half. Working on vanilla for now. Making a somewhat traditional custard-style, but using the sous-vide process for heating. Results have been very good so far, but a bit eggy to my taste. Going to try reducing the eggs and using some Cremodan-30 instead.

**Smithy** · February 12, 2016

@mgaretz, I'm fortunate enough to be lactose-tolerant, and generally avoid non-dairy products on the assumption that I wouldn't want them. Your cherry/chocolate/almond ice cream puts paid to that idea. I want that ice cream. NOW. Please keep sharing your progress!

atelouise · February 12, 2016

@mgaretz, I make lactose free ice cream all the time. I've never found lactose-free cream or half and half, but you can make your own by getting those liquid lactose enzyme drops. I generally add the drops a few days before I plan on making ice cream to the cream. My family and I are all lactose intolerant, and haven't had a problem with the ice cream I make so far.

For recipes that use skim milk powder, I've thought of adding the drops while the mixture is chilling in the fridge, but haven't tried this out.

mgaretz · March 14, 2016

I made a second batch of Cherry-Chocolate-Almond ice cream with some changes to the recipe and it came out much better! See up-thread a bit for the recipe. Changed almond extract to 1 tbs and accidentally changed the cocoa to 4 tbs.

Lisa Shock · March 14, 2016

I have started to experiment with adding bitters to ice cream. So far, I have done just one, added angostura to a batch of Tahitian vanilla flavor: 2 drops per cup of base. It was definitely an improvement, it added a herbal depth to the flavor.

mgaretz · March 22, 2016

Yesterday I made a batch of dairy-free Peanut Butter-Banana. Came out very good and scoopable with a regular teaspoon.

200 gm Precision Foods soft-serve mix (vanilla)

16 oz almond milk, unsweetened

1/4 cup Torani banana syrup

4 tbs peanut butter powder

1 tbs vegetable glycerin

pb-banana.jpg.0e40baa1d66af66a235f6bf7c1

mgaretz · March 29, 2016

Latest batch was double-banana/peanut butter/chocolate. I wanted more banana flavor than I've been getting, so I doubled it. So far so good!

175 gm Precision Foods soft-serve mix (vanilla)

16 oz almond milk, unsweetened

1/2 cup Torani banana syrup

4 tbs peanut butter powder

4 tbs cocoa powder

1 tbs vegetable glycerin

**FrogPrincesse** · March 31, 2016

I often make ice cream with alcohol (using the first recipe in this link, under calvados ice cream). This one was made with Buffalo Trace bourbon. It's been fun to try different bourbons (or different alcohols) in this ice cream base and compare the flavor of the ice cream to the bourbon neat (here is the version with Blanton's). I really like it with Buffalo Trace. It's very rich tasting.

Edited March 31, 2016 by FrogPrincesse
clarification (log)

Franci · March 31, 2016

I'm sure it's very tasty FP. I grew up with a similar recipe that came with our Simac machine and we used to add a local liqueur, San Marzano Borsci. Miss that ice cream!

JoNorvelleWalker · March 31, 2016

3 hours ago, FrogPrincesse said:

I often make ice cream with alcohol (using the first recipe in this link, under calvados ice cream). This one was made with Buffalo Trace bourbon. It's been fun to try different bourbons (or different alcohols) in this ice cream base and compare the flavor of the ice cream to the bourbon neat (here is the version with Blanton's). I really like it with Buffalo Trace. It's very rich tasting.

The only spirit forward ice cream I've made is Grand Marnier. Now that the company is being bought out by Campari I expect to see a lot more mention of it here.

My serious question is don't you have a lot of problems with overly soft ice cream and melting? Someday I may have a minus 80 deg C freezer like in grad school. (It was as an undergraduate I had a walk in freezer room that was great for making ice cream.)

**FrogPrincesse** · March 31, 2016

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

My serious question is don't you have a lot of problems with overly soft ice cream and melting? Someday I may have a minus 80 deg C freezer like in grad school. (It was as an undergraduate I had a walk in freezer room that was great for making ice cream.)

It's on the soft side but I eat it fast enough.

Edited March 31, 2016 by FrogPrincesse
Clarification (log)

JoNorvelleWalker · March 31, 2016

57 minutes ago, FrogPrincesse said:

It's on the soft side but I eat it fast enough.

I wish my grandkids were 21. But then I'm not sure we would ever make it to the ice cream course.

sweettreateater · April 17, 2016

Hi,

I’ve learned a ton about ice cream making on this forum and wanted to start off by saying thanks to everyone for sharing their considerable expertise!

I am hoping someone might be able to shed some light on a few questions…

I recently purchased “Frozen Desserts” by Francisco Migoya, and while it seems to represent a wealth of information, I’m also a bit perplexed by some of the formulations. I’ve noticed quite a few typographical errors in the rest of the book, and when the math doesn’t work out, I am not sure if I just don’t get it or if it’s a mistake…

I’ve uploaded images of a few of the pages where things are bit confusing. I’ve circled the issues in squares of various colors. Hopefully not too confusing.

Here goes...

1. It states on page 61 that for a custard-based vanilla recipe, the nonfat solid percentage should be between 15% - 30% (red square). However, on the next page (page 62) on the example, it seems to indicate that there should only be 8% nonfat solids (blue square). Shouldn’t it be between 15% and 30%, as it states on the previous page?

2. Still on page 62, it calculates the amount of milk powder which needs to be added. There is a formula (green square). I understand the math, I just don’t quite understand the “why”. Besides the unknown origin of the 8% figure of .640 kg, I am not sure why the denominator is used. Wouldn’t you just need to subtract the fat solids from the formulation from the required weight of nonfat solids (all in the numerator), which would leave you with what is needed to add? Not sure why you divide by the .878 constant…

3. Also on page 62, it lists yolks at 5% of total (orange square), yet the range on page 61 recommends between 7 and 9% (also orange square).

4. Another oddity is on page 351 and repeated on page 370 (yellow squares). The total solids don’t seem to add up. For instance, in the Max column, adding the fat solids (11%) plus the nonfat solids (30%) equals 41%. However, in the Min column, adding those figures (2% + 15%) does not equal 25%. Oddly, back on page 61, what seems to be the same calculation appears to be incorrect at 51% (yellow square).

Additionally, shouldn’t sugar be counted as a solid in the formulation? If so, that would bring both Min and Max totals well above what is on the chart… (also a yellow square)

A couple of other general questions… What exactly is “serum”? From what I gather, it’s the “non-water” liquid(s) (ie, milk, cream), and would include both the solids and non-solids in that “non-water” liquid. Is this correct?

On page 61, it says the total fat includes fat from milk, cream, etc, but also includes fat from yolks (purple square). Wouldn’t the relevant fat only be butterfat? It’s my understanding that the fat in yolks is not butterfat and doesn’t have the same effect on the final product as the fat from cream, etc…

On the same line, it recommends a range of fat percentage between 2 and 11% for custard-based ice creams (also a purple square). I don’t think this is a typo because elsewhere in the book, it states that most of the recipes are formulated with low percentages of fat, about 6%. Does that seem a little low?

OK, I will stop asking anymore questions, as I have run out of distinct colors to use.

FWIW, I only tried one recipe from the book, the Vanilla, and was quite disappointed. It was grainy, icy, and tasted more like ice milk. You can just look at it and see it’s going to be pretty low in butterfat with so little cream… Here is the recipe from the book, scaled down in Excel:

Whole milk: 31.56 oz
Heavy cream: 5.58 oz
Sugar: 7.50 oz
Egg yolks: 3.35 oz (6 yolks)
1/8 teaspoon of salt
2 tsp of vanilla

I really like the idea behind this book but I have not been able to figure out what is going on with some of those numbers! I have just received “Ice Cream” (Hoff and Hartel) and am looking forward to diving in.

I've had great success with many of the ideas I've found on this forum, including the famous "Ruben Method"! I'm lucky: my lowest burner seems to be automatically set right at 162 degrees!

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Edited April 17, 2016 by sweettreateater (log)

JoNorvelleWalker · April 17, 2016

41 minutes ago, sweettreateater said:

I've had great success with many of the ideas I've found on this forum, including the famous "Ruben Method"! I'm lucky: my lowest burner seems to be automatically set right at 162 degrees!

Take out a patent on your stove.

gap · April 18, 2016

On 4/17/2016 at 1:33 PM, sweettreateater said:

Hi,

I’ve learned a ton about ice cream making on this forum and wanted to start off by saying thanks to everyone for sharing their considerable expertise!

I am hoping someone might be able to shed some light on a few questions…

I recently purchased “Frozen Desserts” by Francisco Migoya, and while it seems to represent a wealth of information, I’m also a bit perplexed by some of the formulations. I’ve noticed quite a few typographical errors in the rest of the book, and when the math doesn’t work out, I am not sure if I just don’t get it or if it’s a mistake…

I’ve uploaded images of a few of the pages where things are bit confusing. I’ve circled the issues in squares of various colors. Hopefully not too confusing.

Here goes...

1. It states on page 61 that for a custard-based vanilla recipe, the nonfat solid percentage should be between 15% - 30% (red square). However, on the next page (page 62) on the example, it seems to indicate that there should only be 8% nonfat solids (blue square). Shouldn’t it be between 15% and 30%, as it states on the previous page?

2. Still on page 62, it calculates the amount of milk powder which needs to be added. There is a formula (green square). I understand the math, I just don’t quite understand the “why”. Besides the unknown origin of the 8% figure of .640 kg, I am not sure why the denominator is used. Wouldn’t you just need to subtract the fat solids from the formulation from the required weight of nonfat solids (all in the numerator), which would leave you with what is needed to add? Not sure why you divide by the .878 constant…

3. Also on page 62, it lists yolks at 5% of total (orange square), yet the range on page 61 recommends between 7 and 9% (also orange square).

4. Another oddity is on page 351 and repeated on page 370 (yellow squares). The total solids don’t seem to add up. For instance, in the Max column, adding the fat solids (11%) plus the nonfat solids (30%) equals 41%. However, in the Min column, adding those figures (2% + 15%) does not equal 25%. Oddly, back on page 61, what seems to be the same calculation appears to be incorrect at 51% (yellow square).

Additionally, shouldn’t sugar be counted as a solid in the formulation? If so, that would bring both Min and Max totals well above what is on the chart… (also a yellow square)

A couple of other general questions… What exactly is “serum”? From what I gather, it’s the “non-water” liquid(s) (ie, milk, cream), and would include both the solids and non-solids in that “non-water” liquid. Is this correct?

On page 61, it says the total fat includes fat from milk, cream, etc, but also includes fat from yolks (purple square). Wouldn’t the relevant fat only be butterfat? It’s my understanding that the fat in yolks is not butterfat and doesn’t have the same effect on the final product as the fat from cream, etc…

On the same line, it recommends a range of fat percentage between 2 and 11% for custard-based ice creams (also a purple square). I don’t think this is a typo because elsewhere in the book, it states that most of the recipes are formulated with low percentages of fat, about 6%. Does that seem a little low?

OK, I will stop asking anymore questions, as I have run out of distinct colors to use.

FWIW, I only tried one recipe from the book, the Vanilla, and was quite disappointed. It was grainy, icy, and tasted more like ice milk. You can just look at it and see it’s going to be pretty low in butterfat with so little cream… Here is the recipe from the book, scaled down in Excel:

Whole milk: 31.56 oz
Heavy cream: 5.58 oz
Sugar: 7.50 oz
Egg yolks: 3.35 oz (6 yolks)
1/8 teaspoon of salt
2 tsp of vanilla

I really like the idea behind this book but I have not been able to figure out what is going on with some of those numbers! I have just received “Ice Cream” (Hoff and Hartel) and am looking forward to diving in.

I've had great success with many of the ideas I've found on this forum, including the famous "Ruben Method"! I'm lucky: my lowest burner seems to be automatically set right at 162 degrees!

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Migoya has posted about some errors and offered corrections. Not sure if it ties up directly with your issues above but here's the post:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/14454904/Frozen-Desserts-Corrections

Edited April 18, 2016 by gap (log)

paulraphael · April 19, 2016

On April 17, 2016 at 11:33 PM, sweettreateater said:

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

I've found the Migoya book interesting, and one of the only non-food-science industry books that tries to get into the nitty gritty. But it seems unreliable on many details. I'm not sure I'm going to keep my copy. The erata link posted by Gap may clear up some issues. Aside from errors, I've found some of his formulas, like his basic stabilizer formulas, to be not very good. I used them as a point of departure, and ended up very from that point when I finally got things working well.

Your two specific questions that I can answer: nonfat solids should generally be between 8 and 10%, and that does not include the sugars (except for the lactose in the milk). Non-lactose sugars are usually above 14%.

rob1234 · April 19, 2016

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

I've found some of his formulas, like his basic stabilizer formulas, to be not very good.

I was actually going to place an order with modernist pantry this week to get the stuff to make his stabilizer. Should I change my plans? This is the one with glycerin flakes, locust bean gum, and guar gum, correct?

They also sell premade stabilizer http://www.modernistpantry.com/perfect-ice-cream.html maybe I'll just get that.

paulraphael · April 19, 2016

1 hour ago, rob1234 said:

I was actually going to place an order with modernist pantry this week to get the stuff to make his stabilizer. Should I change my plans? This is the one with glycerin flakes, locust bean gum, and guar gum, correct?

They also sell premade stabilizer http://www.modernistpantry.com/perfect-ice-cream.html maybe I'll just get that.

The one I'm thinking of used xanthan, guar, and locust bean gums. I don't recall one with glycerin. Where did you see it?

I used the stabilizer portion of Migoya's blend but not the emulsifier portion. I've started to think that xanthan, in spite of its magical versatility, isn't a great ice cream stabilizing ingredient.

Using a pre-made stabilizer mix is fine ... it's what every pastry chef I know does. I like to make my own so I can tweak it and get the exact qualities I like. Also, years of being a photography taught me that mixing your own recipes offers some protection against manufacturers messing you up by discontinuing or "improving" what you've grown to rely on.

Edited April 19, 2016 by paulraphael (log)

rob1234 · April 20, 2016

5 hours ago, paulraphael said:

The one I'm thinking of used xanthan, guar, and locust bean gums. I don't recall one with glycerin. Where did you see it?

Yeah and xanthan. It's the ice cream stabilizer mix in Frozen Desserts page 22. Roughly equal amounts of xanthan, locust bean, guar, and 50/50 mono and diglyceride.

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