Buying Japanese Knives Online

[btbyrd]

The sujihiki and the nakiri came from Japanny / Seisuke Knife. Honesuki from CKTG. And I found the 240 gyuto from D.C. Sharp. Good buying experiences all around.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by btbyrd (log)

[scubadoo97]

Beautiful knives btbyrd.  Enjoy them.  

 

People  often don't understand the joy of a sharp knife.  But those of us  that prep dinner nightly and understand the benefits of a well designed sharp knife know better.  My knives make prepping dinner a joy and not a chore 

[Eatmywords]

This is probably the last place I should ask advice on low end knives but here goes.  I'm looking for a sashimi (yanagi) knife.  I've made sushi/sashimi/rolls maybe 20x in my life and estimate maybe 3 or 4x a year going frwd.  I just want a decent starter knife to practice on and sharpen on a whetstone which I've never used before and will need to purchase.   

 

Can I get something semi decent for under $40?  I see a few Japanese vendors offering low ends but I imagine some are total shit while others a bit better.  Is it ignorant to believe anything Japanese will be better than Chinese or mass produced?  And is one Japanese brand a better gamble than another?  Many on amazon but I'm eyeing these on jp-knives esp the the phenol resin handle ($32) or the polypropylene at ($27). (- I read that the wood handles are more prone to loosening/falling apart at this price point)    https://jp-knives.com/knife-type/sashimi-knife/?price_min=0&price_max=55&sort=featured 

 

Any opinions much appreciated.  Thank you!

[rotuts]

the knives you ref'd look interesting and Im sure you will enjoy them

 

as you are buying by price point , and there is nothing wrong w that

 

all of these look fine to me , but ive never owned one.

 

make sure you understand that these all seem to be single bevel and what that means

 

proba bly all  and i didn't look into it , are for right handed users

 

Id not shy away from a traditional Japanese handle , rather than a western riveted version 

 

it adds to the pleasure of using these knives.   it you take care of them , and keep them dry

 

i doubt you would have a problem w the handle.  if you do , just get a little 5 minute epoxy and 

 

refashion the knives 

 

pay some attention to the whetstone you are going to use , possible w two grits .

 

anyway , I think these are fine

 

I cant say what the difference is between the 40 $$  and the 25 $$  in the end.

 

get the one that really speaks to you the most .  dont buy the cheapest on the page

 

just because you want to save money.

 

leet us know what you decide and how it works out for you.

[MokaPot]

@Eatmywords , I like that you're already actually slicing sashimi and making rolls. IMO, hardly anybody really does that (at home).

 

I grew up eating homemade sashimi & sushi (maybe about as often as you seem to be doing). My mom made both (at home). She did a decent job and never had a special knife.

[btbyrd]

What other knives do you have? If your budget is around $40 and you already have a knife or two, your money is likely better spent on a stone than on a knife. Frankly, I cannot conceive a non-garbage $40 yanagi; even $150 ones tend to have issues (like having bends and not laying flat on the ura/back of the knife). Sujihikis, which have bevels on both sides, have fewer issues and are better suited for slicing rolls.... but even so, $40 is still quite cheap. (Not inexpensive; cheap.) Yanagi are thick and used to slice fish almost exclusively; sujis are slimmer and are more general purpose slicers. Regardless, in this price range, I'm sorry to say that you're not likely to find much of quality. But you might not really need a specialty sushi knife. The thing that's most important for making rolls is just having a knife that is sharp (and wiped clean between cuts). A sharp chef's knife will do the job just fine. I'd take that $40 and invest it in something like a King 1000/6000 grit combo stone, which is perfect for those just learning to sharpen.

[Eatmywords]

On 4/17/2020 at 12:48 PM, rotuts said:

the knives you ref'd look interesting and Im sure you will enjoy them

 

as you are buying by price point , and there is nothing wrong w that

 

all of these look fine to me , but ive never owned one.

 

make sure you understand that these all seem to be single bevel and what that means

 

proba bly all  and i didn't look into it , are for right handed users

 

Id not shy away from a traditional Japanese handle , rather than a western riveted version 

 

it adds to the pleasure of using these knives.   it you take care of them , and keep them dry

 

i doubt you would have a problem w the handle.  if you do , just get a little 5 minute epoxy and 

 

refashion the knives 

 

pay some attention to the whetstone you are going to use , possible w two grits .

 

anyway , I think these are fine

 

I cant say what the difference is between the 40 $$  and the 25 $$  in the end.

 

get the one that really speaks to you the most .  dont buy the cheapest on the page

 

just because you want to save money.

 

leet us know what you decide and how it works out for you.

 

Hi Rotuts, yes, I know they are rt hand, single bevel (the reason I became interested in them). I agree w you on the handles. Given most of my knives are western, a rounded or d shape handle would be something different and interesting to the grip (and maybe bring upon some sweet memories of my 2 trips to Japan, now many years ago : ).  If I do grab one I'll go this route. Thank you! 

[Eatmywords]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:34 PM, MokaPot said:

@Eatmywords , I like that you're already actually slicing sashimi and making rolls. IMO, hardly anybody really does that (at home).

 

I grew up eating homemade sashimi & sushi (maybe about as often as you seem to be doing). My mom made both (at home). She did a decent job and never had a special knife.

 

Hi Moka, thanks! When I found many years ago that I could get basic ingredients in the japanese and korean markets (in NYC) I started experimenting.  Fast frwd 20yrs much of the staple stuff can be found here in my suburban hell like wasabi powder, pickled ginger, nori, soy, ponzu, sushi rice, mirin, rice vinegar, etc. I love that the masses have relatively recently begun to embrace these products.  (I do have to work a little harder for sushi grade fish so we improvise).  

 

Last week, soft shells emerged so I made spider rolls along w Cali rolls w lump crab meat (canned) plus a couple with crab stick for my little one who was afraid to try the 'real stuff' but eventually came around.  I also bought a piece of whole smoked salmon and put that in a roll.   As well air fried Halibut w panko and made rolls with them too.  All w varying avocado, scallion and cucumber and topped the cooked stuff with an unagi sauce we made (sake, mirin, soy, sugar) that went fantastically well.  Look, I mean it's no where near what we can get in a decent sushi bar but the flavors were there, and they all came out pretty nice.   Anyway, I probably don't really need the knife but I want something a little sharper than what I think I can get w my existing knives and to practice on a whetstone : )

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Eatmywords (log)

[Eatmywords]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:56 PM, btbyrd said:

What other knives do you have? If your budget is around $40 and you already have a knife or two, your money is likely better spent on a stone than on a knife. Frankly, I cannot conceive a non-garbage $40 yanagi; even $150 ones tend to have issues (like having bends and not laying flat on the ura/back of the knife). Sujihikis, which have bevels on both sides, have fewer issues and are better suited for slicing rolls.... but even so, $40 is still quite cheap. (Not inexpensive; cheap.) Yanagi are thick and used to slice fish almost exclusively; sujis are slimmer and are more general purpose slicers. Regardless, in this price range, I'm sorry to say that you're not likely to find much of quality. But you might not really need a specialty sushi knife. The thing that's most important for making rolls is just having a knife that is sharp (and wiped clean between cuts). A sharp chef's knife will do the job just fine. I'd take that $40 and invest it in something like a King 1000/6000 grit combo stone, which is perfect for those just learning to sharpen.

 

Thanks for the input.  I have 2 sets of non German made Henckels plus several random chef, butcher, filet, pairing, bread, cleavers etc.  Nothing professional grade. I sharpen w honing rods and a slide through sharpener and they've worked well for home (frequent) use. I can get them pretty sharp. Curious to incorp the whetstone though which I'll look into (and chk out your rec, thx).

 

I hear you on the knife. Probably don't need it but would like to play with one given how it differs from anything I have as per the single bevel.  Given my expectations (low) and that I don't want to ruin a good one, I think I'll be ok w one of those I linked.  If I like it and find myself using it often, maybe I'll invest in a good one like that beauty you posted above  : ) 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Eatmywords (log)

[paulraphael]

On 4/22/2020 at 12:59 PM, Eatmywords said:

I hear you on the knife. Probably don't need it but would like to play with one given how it differs from anything I have as per the single bevel.  Given my expectations (low) and that I don't want to ruin a good one, I think I'll be ok w one of those I linked.  If I like it and find myself using it often, maybe I'll invest in a good one like that beauty you posted above  : ) 

 

 

I'd advise against it, mostly because it's got a stainless steel blade. In that price range it's going to be made from crap steel that is probably difficult and unpleasant to sharpen, and may not take a sharp edge at all.

One of the best reasons to buy a cheap Japanese knife is to have a beater that you can practice sharpening techniques on, without being scared that you'll wreck it. But if it's miserable to sharpen, and doesn't give you feedback similar to a decent knife, you're not going to learn much. 

 

The entry level for a useable yanagi seems to be around $140 right now. It used to be Korin's house brand, but those are now around 50% more expensive. 

 

You might also find a good deal on a used one. Knife nuts are always buying and selling stuff. Which brings up the next point ... whether you buy new or used, if you get something decent, you'll be able to sell it. It's a good way to experiment / get an urge out of your system.

 

No matter what, make sure you budget (time and money) for at least a couple of decent stones. Sharpening a single-bevel knife is a different skill set, and many people will tell you that the quality of your sharpening stones is more important than with double-bevel blades. When it comes to sharpening, you'll be very happy to have bought a knife that's good enough to have a straight, properly ground blade ... but not so good that the steel is unmanageably hard. 

[Eatmywords]

11 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I'd advise against it, mostly because it's got a stainless steel blade. In that price range it's going to be made from crap steel that is probably difficult and unpleasant to sharpen, and may not take a sharp edge at all.

One of the best reasons to buy a cheap Japanese knife is to have a beater that you can practice sharpening techniques on, without being scared that you'll wreck it. But if it's miserable to sharpen, and doesn't give you feedback similar to a decent knife, you're not going to learn much. 

 

The entry level for a useable yanagi seems to be around $140 right now. It used to be Korin's house brand, but those are now around 50% more expensive. 

 

You might also find a good deal on a used one. Knife nuts are always buying and selling stuff. Which brings up the next point ... whether you buy new or used, if you get something decent, you'll be able to sell it. It's a good way to experiment / get an urge out of your system.

 

No matter what, make sure you budget (time and money) for at least a couple of decent stones. Sharpening a single-bevel knife is a different skill set, and many people will tell you that the quality of your sharpening stones is more important than with double-bevel blades. When it comes to sharpening, you'll be very happy to have bought a knife that's good enough to have a straight, properly ground blade ... but not so good that the steel is unmanageably hard. 

 

Thanks Paul,  good points!  You must've been reading my mind.  I have not been in a rush to buy so its become a fun little distraction to browse, research materials, steel composition and just learn about knives in general.  (Made me realize how crappy most of mine are...haha).  So yes, I did read the stainless steel yanagis don't take to sharpening/keeping an edge as well as the carbons.  I've seen a few used on ebay (is it the best online source?) but I wonder how they've been taken care of.  In the site I posted originally there's a low end SK5 Carbon at $64 - https://jp-knives.com/hy-53023/.  What do you think?   I can't justify $150. 

 

It's an interesting topic, knife quality and upgrading, esp for those of us not cooking professionally but perhaps a bit more technical and varied than the masses. Do I need better than a block set of Henckels and a boat load of random splty knives as long as they feel good in my hands, can be sharpened well enough for precise, efficient use?  I haven't thought much about it but I am a bit now.   

[paulraphael]

I'm completely unfamiliar with that knife shop and with the SK5 carbon knife. I would be worried about the blade being not straight, and about it need a lot of dressing on coarse stones at that price.

 

I don't have a problem with that steel. It's one of Hitachi's lower-end carbon steels, but my sujihiki in SK5 (by Kikuichi) performs just fine. It's a pleasure to sharpen and takes a seriously fine edge. It just has more impurities in it, and probably worse edge retention than the white and blue steels. You can actually smell the sulphur in it, which I think is kind of cool. 

 

I'd see what kind of service you can get from that shop. Will they guarantee a straight knife? One thing I liked about Korin (back when I could afford their cheap knives) is that their knife master would dress any single-beveled blade for you for no extra charge. 

 

 

[rotuts]

I had told a friend of mine about Watanabe knives :

 

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp

 

professional :

 

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/

 

his first was a Gyuto :

 

 http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/gyuto.htm

 

I of course then talked him into a Nakkiiri :

 

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/smallnakkiri.htm

 

he got the 150 mm blade  .  the 120 mm blade currently is sold out.

 

so I piggybacked on his order , as he uses PayPal , I do not.

 

I got the smaller Gyuto  :

 

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/petite.htm

 

 

 

I now have both the 180 mm and the 150 mm.

 

you see them both above , along w a catalog they now send , and you get one of those 

 

Japanese Bandanas'   sorry , dopant know what you call them :

 

 

its a very indulgent purchase .  but it came here on the day i sent in all my US Taxes , w payment.

 

got me back to a neutral keel.   

 

the smaller Gyuto is a delight !

 

P.S.:  I wonder what there second knife from the R in the pic from the brochure 

 

My friend would enjoy this

 

has he has a place @ Woods Hole   (  to the R of Cape Cod MA )

 

and they have an outstanding Fishmonger near by.

 

just saying .....he lurks here but has only posted one time

 

P.P.S.:

 

my two Gyuto's , one more time :

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by rotuts (log)

[chromedome]

LOL I looked at the photo and thought "Hmm, interesting double curve on that slicer."

...then I realized it was a printed catalogue, and that the slicer spanned the center fold. Duh. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

That was my first take also.    Like "what is the purp;ose of THAT weirdo?"    And then, yes, duh.

[paulraphael]

I've only heard good things about Watanabe. He has a reputation for great value in a traditional hand-forged knife.

[rotuts]

Yes he does 

 

based on what i have

 

over the few years.

 

I take very very good care of these knives.

 

w the EdgePro and etc.

 

love them all .

Edited July 18, 2020 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

Im a Watanabe fan.

 

excellent information above

 

Watanabe's are a little over 200 , but not much.

 

and I agree  :  a fine cutting board ( Japanese ) is fun.

 

but start considering how you are going to sharpen 

 

your Japanese Knife Collection  

[paulraphael]

Japanese Knife Imports doesn't get mentioned enough around here. It's one of the best shops anywhere for knives and information.  The founder, Jon Broida, knows as much as anyone and is almost unreasonably generous with advice. He even talked me out of buying an expensive knife once ... I was complaining about one of the qualities of my gyuto, and was interested in one he sold in a similar style (there was a big buzz about it online). Jon said I probably wouldn't notice any difference. He'd actually owned my knife, and another model I was considering, and had used them both when he cooked professionally. So it wasn't just speculation.

 

The shop mostly sells knives you won't see elsewhere. Jon works with small Japanese makers and has them create lines of knives just for his shop to sell. He rebrands them with "Gesshin" plus the maker's mark. The Gesshin Ginga line, for example is made by Ashi Hamono. They're similar to the Gingas Ashi sells directly from Japan, but they're heat treated to a higher hardness level, have a more smoothly rounded spine and choil, and a nicer handle. And they cost a little more. Jon's got several lines of knives, all by different makers. And his own line of stones. I just picked up a Gesshin 6K splash-n-go stone and it might be the nicest I've used. 

 

So the TL;DR if you're looking for a knife (and don't want to get bogged down in the details) is call JKI and just get whatever Jon tells you to get. 

[btbyrd]

Jon is the best. And his sharpening tutorial videos on YouTube are fantastic. And speaking of sharpening, his sharpening supplies (stones and whatnot) are also excellent. JKI’s customer service is some of the best in the business. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

15 minutes ago, williampaig said:

Im looking to experiment with some different Japanese knives and was wondering what are some popular/reliable/razor sharp choices? Ive owned a Global, and wasnt impressed (I sold it on ebay). I kinda like what I see and feel just holding a Shun, but have never used one. I know all about the German knives and own a few of them too, but want to know about some Japanese models the average Joe may not know about. Thanks.

 

If you want a razor sharp edge, Watanabe offers Togidashi sharpening...at a cost.

https://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/togidashi.htm

 

 

[rotuts]

@JoNorvelleWalker 

 

thank you for that.

 

So informative .

 

now I have to consider a Watanabe single bevel knife.

 

its going to be buzzing and buzzing until I give up.

 

I use my EdgePro w the Watanabe's to 4000 grit.

 

think of the time savings if I only have to sharpen one side !

[Dr. Teeth]

I say this non critically, but you have started 2-3 threads asking the same question and so I hesitate to answer because I don’t want to seem like I am writing the same answers over and over to brow beat you.

 

if you want to get into Japanese knives you need to understand, they are higher performance, higher maintenance than German knives.   To keep a working edge on a Japanese knife you will need to periodically:

1) sharpen it yourself and hope you don’t wreck it while learning to sharpen (spoiler: you probably will);

2) send it off to be sharpened

3) take it to a local knife shop and have it sharpened and hope they don’t wreck it (spoiler: they probably will)

 

So I would first get a non super expensive knife that will give you a good sense of Japanese knives, either a fujiwara FKM or a Tojiro DP gyuto either 210 or 240mm.  Either of these is a much higher performance knife than a global or shun,  and will help you decide if you like japanese knives and will be a useful crash test dummy when you either sharpen yourself or take it to the local guys.

 

Failing that, Watanabe is not a bad suggestion.   His 180mm nakiri is a classic among knife guys.   His prices have gone up recently but are still reasonable.

[btbyrd]

+1 for what Dr. Teeth said, though I'll add that European knives also need to be sharpened periodically even though it seems like nobody ever does it. The suggestion to get a nice entry level knife and practice sharpening is definitely good advise. You could also pay a little more and get a more "artisanal" knife that has a core steel of white or blue (shirogami or aogami) carbon steel. These are the most popular reactive (non-stainless) steels used in Japanese kitchen knives. They're very lightly alloyed (they're mostly just iron and carbon) and fine grained. This makes them very easy to sharpen, and it's a pleasure to learn on this kind of steel compared to stainless (which is, generally speaking, more challenging to sharpen).

 

It's possible to get basically any knife shaving sharp with just a 500 grit stone. Sharpness isn't an intrinsic attribute of a knife, but is something that happens to a knife. Some knives come with an excellent edge from the factory while others require a bit of touching up to reach their full potential. Some Japanese makers don't bother to put a fully sharpened edge on their knives because they assume that the customer will do that themselves. Other makers are known for having an extremely keen edge out of the box, but edges don't last forever. Even the sharpest knife will dull after a few months of use. Granted, it may still be sharper at that point than your average home kitchen knives (which are horrid) but "shaving sharp" doesn't last long and is something you have to bring back. And unless you live near a reputable sharpener (which you probably don't) then the best option is to learn how to do it yourself. It seems daunting, but it's not rocket science. Korin and Japanese Knife Imports have excellent sharpening tutorial videos on YouTube.

 

As for single bevels, I generally advise that people should only buy a single bevel knife if it's perfectly clear to them why they want and need a single bevel knife. They're specialized tools for specific jobs, and unless you're regularly trying to make sushi or other Japanese cuisine at home, you'll have little use for these specialist knives. The kind of sharpening progression Watanabe offers is less about sharpness and more about the appearance and evenness of the bevel. It's more of a polishing step, not a sharpening step. And an Edge Pro is the wrong tool for sharpening single bevels.

[rotuts]

ill add this :  Globals are mighty fine knives.

 

they are not Watanabe's  or  similar quality other hand forged

 

and fashioned  japanese knives.

 

a long time ago , I splurged on a Global , BB@B  w co0upon !

 

the issue w them is they are difficult to sharpen.

 

KnifeForum types suggest the steel is sticky .  I have no idea what that means

 

I used to use water stones , and for a long while had a water stone ' wheel '

 

w different stones.  Hitachi !  it helped a lot. EdgePro was suggested

 

specifically for the Globals

 

so I moved to EdgePro , took my time , and got a very very fine edge on them.

 

it did take time , but I very much enjoyed both the ' handle ' and different sizes.

 

its my understanding there are a very large number of Globals that are not exported

 

from Japan to BB&B .     they are a pleasure to use and real workhorses.

 

the steel on a Watanabe is quite different.   I still use the EP w great success 

 

im no longer able to ' free hand '

 

Watanabe and I guessing similar steel does chip , w the tiniest tap

 

on something ceramic.

 

Globals do not.  My gl0bal collection moved to a friends house

 

he has EdgePro.  He has a few Watanabe's.

 

The Globals the family now has live in a wooden knife block and are used by the

 

entire adult family w pleasure .  remember , they are razor sharp due to the EdgePro.

 

The  Watanabe's are ' by appointment only '   and appointments are not easy to

 

obtain. But the Globals fill the families need very pleasantly.

 

@Dr. Teeth  has given you excellent advise .

Edited December 28, 2021 by rotuts (log)