Substitute for MC's 1/2"-Thick Pizza Steel

[Duvel]

11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Aluminum sitting on a steel rack in a hot steam oven seems asking for trouble

 

Interesting thought. I would not be to worried with a direct reduction, which would require well above 700 oC, but let’s say a scratch from the steel through the aluminium oxide layer at high temperatures in a saturated water atmosphere - that could be fun. And having experienced metal ignitions first hand it might not be something you want to experience in a domestic environment ...

[paulraphael]

Cheap alloy aluminum pans sit on 30,000 btu/hr burners in restaurants all day long. The worst thing that ever happens is they warp. I'd maybe worry if we were talking about magnesium.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, scott123 said:

 

As I mentioned before, with the temps your main oven can reach, aluminum isn't buying you anything in terms of a reduction in bake time, because you'll be limited by the strength of your broiler, but it will be considerably lighter to work with. Even at a whopping 1 inch, it should still be relatively easy to take in and out of the oven.

 

What size did you get?

 

12x12 inch.  Which I calculate should be about 14 pounds.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

50 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

Cheap alloy aluminum pans sit on 30,000 btu/hr burners in restaurants all day long. The worst thing that ever happens is they warp. I'd maybe worry if we were talking about magnesium.

 

I was thinking of galvanic corrosion in the CSO.

 

[Duvel]

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I was thinking of galvanic corrosion in the CSO.

 

As did I. Only happens once the oxide layer is damaged. In dry environment no issue ans self-limiting ... in saturated steam I am not 100% sure.

[Duvel]

3 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Cheap alloy aluminum pans sit on 30,000 btu/hr burners in restaurants all day long. The worst thing that ever happens is they warp. I'd maybe worry if we were talking about magnesium.

 

Yup. But that's a dry environment.

 

Again, I don't know if that becomes an issue. I just liked @JoNorvelleWalkers thought on the "two metal & water at elevated temperatures" situation ...

Edited September 7, 2018 by Duvel (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My aluminum came today:

 

 

If a steel is called a steel, an aluminum is called an aluminum, right?  Difficult to photograph in any meaningful fashion, I must say.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

This may show it better...

 

 

 

Easier to wrestle with than the steel of about the same weight.  Perhaps because it's larger.  Now I have to figure out a place to put it.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

After an hour the aluminum had achieved 430F.  Now that a second hour has elapsed I'm summoning enough Dutch courage to launch the pie.

 

Several inches below there is a foil lined sheet pan should I miss.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

After almost three hours the aluminum never got any hotter.  Still measured about 430F.  I do not understand the science since we previously ascertained the oven air temperature exceeds 550F.

 

Anyhow, after a three minute bake a third the pizza was too thin and the sauce broke through.  Thankfully the containment vessel held the mess.  For the rest the crust was crisp enough that the slice stayed parallel when held at the edge.  Yet the crust was chewy and slightly underdone.  There was some blackening on the top crust but by no means as much blackening as on the bottom.

 

The crust had a not unpleasant charred flavor.

 

I should add this was not pizza dough but rather yesterday's leftover bread dough.

 

[scott123]

3 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

After almost three hours the aluminum never got any hotter.  Still measured about 430F.  I do not understand the science since we previously ascertained the oven air temperature exceeds 550F.

 

As I said before, 10 bucks:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Thermometer-58℉-1022℉-Non-Contact-Temperature-Adjustable/dp/B07C3SLMVN

 

It's not the prettiest IR thermometer, but, should you ever get a Neapolitan capable oven, the peak temp on this model will play friendly with it.

 

This will get to the bottom of your mystery. Guaranteed. You will need to, as previously discussed, season your aluminum for IR to work, but, you'll want to do that anyway to minimize the preheat time by maximizing absorptivity.

[rotuts]

@JoNorvelleWalker

 

as I recall , you might have an IR ' gun '

 

your Slab will get to the same equilibrium temp as your oven.

 

at some point , and Id guess less than 2 H.

 

Id check the 

 

https://www.thermoworks.com/infrared_tips_what_is_emissivity

[TicTac]

At some point one must be satisfied with ones results and simply ENJOY. 

 

scott's endless obsession with neapolitan pizza and reducing baking times aside....

 

What is the big deal if it takes 5 minutes vs 3 to achieve an excellent result!?

 

I purchased a MC steel (cost about $120 after tax and conversion) about 6 months ago and am slowly perfecting my pies.

 

A 1h heat at 550, top rack, and 10 minutes of broil before putting in the pizza, with 2 minutes of broil during cooking and 3-4 (Depending on ingredients) of no broil cooking produces a fantastic crumb with a nice little bit of char on the crust.  Besides the bit of smoke, I can produce a pizza that most wood ovens would be proud to offer.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, scott123 said:

 

As I said before, 10 bucks:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Thermometer-58℉-1022℉-Non-Contact-Temperature-Adjustable/dp/B07C3SLMVN

 

It's not the prettiest IR thermometer, but, should you ever get a Neapolitan capable oven, the peak temp on this model will play friendly with it.

 

This will get to the bottom of your mystery. Guaranteed. You will need to, as previously discussed, season your aluminum for IR to work, but, you'll want to do that anyway to minimize the preheat time by maximizing absorptivity.

 

As can be seen in the photograph above the aluminum is hard anodized, dark gray.

 

[dcarch]

Perhaps this is happening?

 

When you have a very hot metal plate under the wet pizza dough, immediately water evaporates and in fact, a vapor layer separates the metal and the dough, making it unimportant the metal conductivity, because I would assume the temperature in that steam zone can't get above 212F.

 

However, the infrared radiation from the hot metal plate can penetrate the steam zone and heat up the dough at any temperature, not limited to 212F.

 

If the above is true, the thickness and conductivity of the metal may not be as simple as to how the dough is cooked/baked. 

 

dcarch

 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by dcarch (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

11 hours ago, rotuts said:

@JoNorvelleWalker

 

as I recall , you might have an IR ' gun '

 

your Slab will get to the same equilibrium temp as your oven.

 

at some point , and Id guess less than 2 H.

 

Id check the 

 

https://www.thermoworks.com/infrared_tips_what_is_emissivity

 

I have many measuring instruments but not yet an IR thermometer.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

With all respect and gratitude to those who have tried to help, speaking as someone with twelve years' experience in the field of industrial process control, I cannot believe an IR gun would be more accurate than a type K thermocouple.  Tonight I used a different thermocouple and after an hour and forty nine minutes preheating to 550F measured the edge of my aluminum at 421F.

 

I may yet try an IR gun but the budget does not allow the purchase at the moment.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Modernist Bread same day dough, not something I have tried before:

 

 

 

Not as easy to stretch as cold retarded.  But I was hungry.  Baked scant three minutes.  I started pulling about 2:45.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to show the sacrificial shot:

 

 

 

 

 

Crust was crisp.  Last quadrant was left over.  I could have eaten it.

 

 

[rotuts]

@JoNorvelleWalker

 

that's the way I like my pizza :  Oozie-Cheesie

[dscheidt]

19 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

With all respect and gratitude to those who have tried to help, speaking as someone with twelve years' experience in the field of industrial process control, I cannot believe an IR gun would be more accurate than a type K thermocouple.  Tonight I used a different thermocouple and after an hour and forty nine minutes preheating to 550F measured the edge of my aluminum at 421F.

 

I may yet try an IR gun but the budget does not allow the purchase at the moment.

 

I wonder if you have a heat transfer problem.  Poor coupling between the thermocouple and the metal plates.  have you considered using some grease?  a copper anti-seize would be good for 550F at least.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

23 minutes ago, dscheidt said:

I wonder if you have a heat transfer problem.  Poor coupling between the thermocouple and the metal plates.  have you considered using some grease?  a copper anti-seize would be good for 550F at least.

 

Could be.  The probes I'm using have a bare junction.

 

[boilsover]

On 9/7/2018 at 11:37 AM, Duvel said:

As did I. Only happens once the oxide layer is damaged. In dry environment no issue ans self-limiting ... in saturated steam I am not 100% sure.

 

Saturated steam is quite corrosive of aluminum, especially under pressure.

[boilsover]

On 9/7/2018 at 8:29 AM, paulraphael said:

Cheap alloy aluminum pans sit on 30,000 btu/hr burners in restaurants all day long. The worst thing that ever happens is they warp. I'd maybe worry if we were talking about magnesium.

 

I'm waiting for the sodium "steel" to hit the market.  Once it catches fire...

[md8232]

I have a 1/4” steel now.  If I add a 1/2” steel, or 3/4” aluminum, would there be

a benefit to using the 1/4” on the rack above the pizza?

[rotuts]

why not preheat the steel you have

 

and at the correct time , turn the broiler , including broiler preheating time 

 

on and broil the top that way ?