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ChrisTaylor

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 7)

50 posts in this topic

I know in the book, the recipe for Duck Prosciutto calls for coating the duck breast in salt and leaving it for 24 hours. I've read through this thread and the number of days seems variable due to size, breed type, fat content etc. The only way to check the doneness of the cure is to press the meat and to inspect the color, which is a little too much guesswork for me. Does anyone have actual recommended salt percentages per meat weight for equilibrium curing instead of the salt box method?

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I have done equilibrium dry-curing with 2% salt. Left it in a bag for a week, dried it for another week. I like my cured products with little salt, and 2% was a bit much for me. (I use 1.5% in my bacon.)

K

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Alright I have some duck prosciutto in the curing fridge and I've noticed three kinds of molds growing. One is a fuzzy white mold. Another is a dark green mold that sort of looks like algae (there was some meat to meat contact at this area so it was kind of wet). The last one is a spotty white mold that is more opaque. From what I've read so far, which isn't much, white molds are okay and green molds are iffy...I've rubbed them off with some a salt and vinegar solution, but I'm wondering if it's okay to just let those molds go wild

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Hey people. Been a while since I've posted I think. I still read regularly however :)

 

I just started walking down the Charcuterie lane and I have an issue I need help with.

 

The other week at the supermaket here in New Zealand they had "Half Price Whole Scotch Roasts" of pig. "Scotch fillet" is a fairly common cut here. It's usually sliced into steaks and people fry them up like that. I know it comes form the 'upper shoulder / neck' region and is usually more expensive than the 'shoulder roasts' we get here because of the higher fat content and lack of any bone. I couldn't resist the price so I bought one and froze it to use later for whatever comes to mind.

 

Now I'm working on a few charcuterie projects and one of the ones I wanted to try was Coppa. I have some understanding of where the coppa cut comes from but you never see a "Coppa" cut at the butchers around here. The butchers I've asked as well have no idea what it is.

 

Now going back and looking at the 'Scotch Roast' I bought, it looks like it might be a Coppa, a half of a Coppa, a portion of the Coppa, or simply come from the same region of the Coppa. Can someone please help me identify what I bought, tell me if it's a Coppa (whole or part) and if I can cure and dry it. It is in the 5 - 6lb realm if memory serves me correct. Any help, even a point in the right direction would be of immense help right now.

 

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Hey, Merkinz.  Good to have you back.

 

A while ago you were talking about moving to Wellington.  If you did, go and see Preston's in Hopper Street; specifically a gentleman called Fred.  He's the guy I go to for obscurities - he did me a saddle of lamb a while back.


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

eGullet Ethics Code signatory

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Hey, Merkinz.  Good to have you back.

 

A while ago you were talking about moving to Wellington.  If you did, go and see Preston's in Hopper Street; specifically a gentleman called Fred.  He's the guy I go to for obscurities - he did me a saddle of lamb a while back.

 

HAH! yes! I remember, and yes I did just move back to Wellington! Great to be 'home' :biggrin:  (eastbourne).

 

I've been getting alot of belly from prestons lately for bacon and I just got an 'eye of round' for bresaola. I love that place. :wub:

 

I'm still keen to know more about this 'Scotch Roast' thought. They come up on special occasionally and if they actually happen to be a specific cut I can use for charcuterie it might save me alot of money as every time I've been to a butcher in the past reqesting a 'custom cut' it has cost me an arm and a leg.

 

I just got a wine fridge for curing and it holds a nice steady humidity (70 - 75%). I'm really excited about the things I can cure. :rolleyes:

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That looks very much like what we in the US would call a "Boston Butt." Here, it's usually rolled and tied for roasting, but to me it looks like it would be fine for Coppa. However, given the large isolated areas of fat, it's probably just as good very coarsely ground, in any number of other pork-based sausages. Myself, I'd be thinking Cajun-style andouille. (But then, I'm often thinking about Cajun-style andouille.)


Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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hallo,

this piece is perfect for a Coppa. as you said, it is from the neck and due to its fat content it is also used for making sausages.

 

ninagluck

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Great! Thanks for the comments :)

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Merkinz,

 

From here, it looks like you have the upper part (collar) of what we call a "Boston Butt."

That is what's cured (often after trimming) to make coppa or cottage ham.

 

See BriCan's first post in the following link....he demonstrates how the collar is separated from a full Boston Butt and prepared for coppa.....

 

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8603


~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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Merkinz,

 

From here, it looks like you have the upper part (collar) of what we call a "Boston Butt."

That is what's cured (often after trimming) to make coppa or cottage ham.

 

See BriCan's first post in the following link....he demonstrates how the collar is separated from a full Boston Butt and prepared for coppa.....

 

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8603

 

Thanks Martin!

 

That is exactly what I was looking for. This kind of stuff is had to find using google but you sir are a wealth of knowledge! ... You just helped me with the nitrite burned bacon on chefsteps :biggrin:

 

Can I just pay you to come and teach me the way of charcuterie? :smile:

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Hey all. I'm making my first Bresaola at the moment. It's currently in it's first week of curing. Keen to ask a few questions:

- Should I wrap it in muslin? I know I don't need to but is there any benefit?

- Should I inoculate with mold? ... again, I know I don't need to but what are peoples experiences?

- Do you have any other tips so I can get a good result the first time?

 

Cheers.

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well, depending on the humidity where you dry the piece. I wrap mine in muslin and spray he muslin with water.

I don't put old on bresaola. Wash the piece with a redwine/salt mixture, that gives a nice taste.

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Thanks I'll give that a go. Relative humidity is actually quite high in my curing chamber so I might skip the muslin.


Edited by Merkinz (log)

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Couple of quick questions about the basic country ham (the one in the style of Serrano, San Danielle, etc).

 

  • They call for a full leg of pork. About 5-6 kilos of meat, from memory. I want to use a 1-2 kilo piece of meat because this is a trial run and I'm not even sure my curing environment is suitable. Is this okay? Will it significantly shorten the drying time or should I still figure on the 4-5 months?
  • Is the bone critical? Sometimes I can only find leg pieces at the size I want with the bone already removed.
  • Instead of parking it in a box during the salt curing process, can I just vac seal it?

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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Go here http://www.mrswheelbarrow.com/2011/10/november-challenge-curing/ amd scroll down to Jambons de Camont
 AKA Noix de Jambon.

 

A video of Dominique Chapolard preparing Noix de Jambon......

 


~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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DDF  you come up with some of the best vids !

 

you should start a topic:   My favorite cooking vids.

 

:biggrin:

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G'day all.

 

A couple of questions and a comment.

 

Q.1 for Doc-G: I live in Australia as well and having a hard time (ie. entirely unsuccessful) finding a source for Bactoferm. Where do you source from?

 

Q.2 What does everyone do with all this product??? My family can plow through the bacon fairly reliably but, my god!, the quantity I see would cover us a good part of the year! Not to sound cheap but I'm reluctant to be handing all the work and expense as gifts to family and friends on a regular, ongoing basis. On the other hand, banging it out makes for good practice and opportunities for testing.

 

Comment: Boudin Noir has been removed from all plans going forward!! Wife would have my .... if ever she walked in on our kitchen looking like that! So glad it wasn't me!

 

Cheers all and thanks for all the advice throughout this (and previous charcuterie) thread.

Richard

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My last batch of Bacon didn't go to plan, and I ended up leaving it in the cold smoker for too long, and it ended up very smokey.

 

I did not want to throw it away, so I cut some of the bacon up anyway (which by the way, after a month of "settling" in the freezer turned out really good).

 

But I kept one piece, and decided to dry it out. Now I didn't have a curing chamber, or anything else to control temperature, but I did have winter on my side.

 

So I wrapped it up in some cloth, and hung it in a dry place, exposed to the outside air. I forgot about it for 3 months.

 

Lardo Aug2014.JPG

 

So, here it is. Fungus and all! I wasn't sure what to make of it. I had left the skin on one side to avoid drying it out too much, and the flesh side did dry out a bit, but not as much as I expected.

 

The mould - well, if I die in a few days, it was nice knowing you all. :)

 

The taste - awesome. Just fantastic. Deep, earthy, funky, but with the salt/sweet balance of the bacon.

 

The smoke? Subtle and lingering, but fantastic.

 

The texture....soft and delicate fat, slight chewier as you get closer to the dry flesh side, but excellent in thin slices.

 

Will I do it again...Definitely!

 

Thanks

Luke

 

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My last batch of Bacon didn't go to plan, and I ended up leaving it in the cold smoker for too long, and it ended up very smokey.

 

I did not want to throw it away, so I cut some of the bacon up anyway (which by the way, after a month of "settling" in the freezer turned out really good).

 

But I kept one piece, and decided to dry it out. Now I didn't have a curing chamber, or anything else to control temperature, but I did have winter on my side.

 

So I wrapped it up in some cloth, and hung it in a dry place, exposed to the outside air. I forgot about it for 3 months.

 

attachicon.gifLardo Aug2014.JPG

 

So, here it is. Fungus and all! I wasn't sure what to make of it. I had left the skin on one side to avoid drying it out too much, and the flesh side did dry out a bit, but not as much as I expected.

 

The mould - well, if I die in a few days, it was nice knowing you all. :)

 

The taste - awesome. Just fantastic. Deep, earthy, funky, but with the salt/sweet balance of the bacon.

 

The smoke? Subtle and lingering, but fantastic.

 

The texture....soft and delicate fat, slight chewier as you get closer to the dry flesh side, but excellent in thin slices.

 

Will I do it again...Definitely!

 

Thanks

Luke

 

 

That looks incredible. I got that blue green mold too when I was curing duck prosciutto. It happens when there's too much humidity, so I suspect you probably used too much cheese cloth. Don't quote me on this but I believe that mold isn't particularly dangerous. I remember seeing pictures somewhere of salumi hanging in a shop with that color mold running along the sides with mostly the safe powdery white mold. As long as you cut off most of it you should be fine (I'm still alive!). Did you eat it raw or cooked?

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Eating it raw. However, I am shaving off the mould growth prior to consumption.

 

Luke

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G'day all.

 

A couple of questions and a comment.

 

Q.1 for Doc-G: I live in Australia as well and having a hard time (ie. entirely unsuccessful) finding a source for Bactoferm. Where do you source from?

 

Q.2 What does everyone do with all this product??? My family can plow through the bacon fairly reliably but, my god!, the quantity I see would cover us a good part of the year! Not to sound cheap but I'm reluctant to be handing all the work and expense as gifts to family and friends on a regular, ongoing basis. On the other hand, banging it out makes for good practice and opportunities for testing.

 

Comment: Boudin Noir has been removed from all plans going forward!! Wife would have my .... if ever she walked in on our kitchen looking like that! So glad it wasn't me!

 

Cheers all and thanks for all the advice throughout this (and previous charcuterie) thread.

Richard

Bactoferm available at this link.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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A few months ago I took a boneless pork leg roast and packed it in salt. This was my attempt at the dry-cured country ham. I left it hanging in the 'granny flat' at 'room temperature' (Melbourne autumn and winter). And today, about four and a half months down the road, I decided to give it a shot. I mean, any more, it's not like we'll have too many days at or below the temperature Ruhlman wants you to keep the ham at. I was, to be blunt, shitting myself about tasting this thing. It didn't look nasty. It smelt like dry-cured ham. Indeed, at no point in the curing process did it smell much of anything: certainly not rotten meat or anything nasty. After getting rid of the fat and digging into the ham's interior, it looked a little pink. Not as dark as the dry-cured hams you buy at delis. I was unsure whether or not this was a product of time, the meat or some sort of additive commercial ham producers use. It tasted okay. Very peppery. Very salty. Okay. It wasn't good but it was within the bounds of ham. Fairly soft. Almost as if it could have done with more time, even though the weight was within fifty grams or so of where Ruhlman wanted it to be. I was too nervous to go beyond putting the tiniest of slivers on my tongue. 


Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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Bactoferm available at this link.

 

Available at MBLSA for hlaf the price along with a stack of other supplies for aussies struggling to source things at a reasonable price. Their bulk herbs and spices and sausage casings are particularly good value compared to other places on the net. And their service is excellent.

 

http://www.mblsa.com.au/327469/BACTOFERM-600-MEAT-CULTURE-MOLD-25g/pd.php

 

No affiliation, just a very happy customer.

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