Pasteurizing Eggs Sous Vide

[blue_dolphin]

28 minutes ago, kayb said:

Bumping this up to get the group's opinion on how to accomplish something. Last year in NOLA, I treated myself to breakfast at Brennan's, which has two of my very favorite breakfast dishes in the world: egg yolk tartare and eggs hussarde. I was talking with the waiter about how they achieved the perfect texture for the egg yolks in the tartare dish; it's exactly what you get in the ideal over-easy or lightly poached egg. Perfectly runny. No solids at all. That good "done" taste and velvety texture that lets you know it's cooked enough. 

 

I'm thinking through how to accomplish this. The yolks tartare are not served whole; they're as if one just poured them out on the plate. I did not ask, and should have, whether they are cooked whole, or whether they're lightly beaten and then sous vided.

 

I'm thinking if I were to lightly beat the egg yolks, then pour them into a bag, and sous vide, I'd get the effect I want. What would be the time and temp y'all would suggest for this? I'll save the whites for another day.

 

The yolks tartare are pooled in a salad plate at Brennan's, with some grilled shrimp circling a tower of crispy fried sweet potato strands in the center. It's insufferably good.

 

There is a recipe here that sounds similar: Brennan’s Executive Chef Slade Rushing shares Egg Yolk Carpaccio with Sautéed Shrimp and Andouille Vinaigrette

 

[rotuts]

@kayb

 

google this :

 

sous vide eggs charts

 

its all there , some where .

 

yu can pasteurize an egg or many at 130.1 F

 

it comes out  as if it were an uncooked egg

 

more or less.

 

it s bit more for a cooked but runny yolk.

 

you can indeed make Hollandaise  w just yoke , add- ins  

 

sv in a big

 

its been done here

 

the you just cut a bit of the bottom corner when cooked and

 

squeeze out onto your   a , or B , or C.

 

but you can cut out the Middle Stuff , and squeeze it out

 

Right Into Your Mouth !

 

not that Ive done that 

 

[kayb]

3 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

There is a recipe here that sounds similar: Brennan’s Executive Chef Slade Rushing shares Egg Yolk Carpaccio with Sautéed Shrimp and Andouille Vinaigrette

 

 

This is it! (although I didn't recall the andouille viniagrette)

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

On my list for the next fancy brunch.

 

[blue_dolphin]

44 minutes ago, kayb said:

 

This is it! (although I didn't recall the andouille viniagrette)

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

On my list for the next fancy brunch.

 

 

You are most welcome!

There's a recipe for the Eggs Hussarde from Brennan's that you mentioned on the Saveur website.  Sounds pretty amazing!

[kayb]

1 hour ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

You are most welcome!

There's a recipe for the Eggs Hussarde from Brennan's that you mentioned on the Saveur website.  Sounds pretty amazing!

That one I have. And it is.

 

I will tell you I believe it is nigh impossible to eat the carpaccio and then the Hussarde and finish both. And I only had one mimosa.

 

[kayb]

Another question on this:

 

If I were to do a half-dozen or so egg yolks like the above, how long could I keep them refrigerated before I needed to use them, and would the SV be the easiest way to bring them back to serving temp without changing the texture? Would a simple dip in hot waer suffice?

 

I love a runny egg yolk over fried potatoes , toast, what have you. I am not enamored of egg whites, and generally wind up feeding them to the dog, who does not need them. I'd love to have a batch of yolks I could pull from the fridge, spoon some out, warm and use.

 

[rotuts]

Well ..

 

LeDoge  might like the whites , SV'd with a bit of TJ's smelly cheese

 

vac's in small packets or added to some low fat yogurt .

 

somewhere in the past

 

Hollandaise was made w just egg yolks  and the etc

 

then the packet was snipped on the bottom

 

and Ooozed over Asparagus  etc?

 

why not just get  a lot of yolks

 

oor individual generous servings of Yolks

 

and SV them at 130.1  until pasteurized ?

 

rapid chill and then keep very cold and then use ?

 

P.R.N. ?

Edited August 1, 2018 by rotuts (log)

[kayb]

I guess I could pasteurize, and then heat to 145 for a period of time to get that perfect "runny egg yolk" texture, which is what I'm shooting for. But I'd like to have a quick, convenient warm-up if, say, I wanted to portion some out for breakfast.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

7 hours ago, kayb said:

I guess I could pasteurize, and then heat to 145 for a period of time to get that perfect "runny egg yolk" texture, which is what I'm shooting for. But I'd like to have a quick, convenient warm-up if, say, I wanted to portion some out for breakfast.

 

Eggs come in remarkable little packages called shells.  Pasteurize in the shell and use as needed.

 

[btbyrd]

Ziplocks aren't recommended for cook->pasteurize->chill->store. And unless you bag one yolk per bag (yikes) then your container will no longer be pasteurized after you open it to get a yolk or two out. Cooking them in the shell is a better way to cook, chill, and store, SV eggs safely. But if you want to cook a bunch of yolks at a time and then retherm them, I separate a bunch of eggs (easier when raw) and cook batches of yolks in Ziplocks in copious amounts of neutral oil. I retherm at 58C because the yolks won't cook or appreciably change in texture even if held for a long time.

 

That's how I banged out two dozen perfect yolks for a dish at an event a while back. It was a "Bacon, Egg, and Cheese" dish made of a big hunk of deep-fried, cured smoked SV pork belly stuffed with cheese and then topped with a SV yolk and Maldon's salt. This was my last bag, but you can see that seven or eight yolks will sit comfortably in a gallon zippie.

 

 

 

Chefsteps does a similar technique, but they use a small hotel pan filled with oil and then heat that with a circulator like a bain marie. That seems like a lot of work when you can just use a bag. If I was going to try to pasteurize them and hold them beforehand for some reason, I would have just cooked them in their shell and re-thermed them on site, but I'd have to crack them out a la minute, and that's a pain in the ass. It's much easier to separate a raw egg than it is one that's been cooked SV. My personal favorite yolk texture for a lot of stuff is around 64.2C. It's a "tweener" yolk that's fudgey but still will flow slowly and meltingly form a "sauce."

 

But to get back to pasteurization, eggs are a relatively safe food to begin with and people tend to overestimate their danger. The interior of the egg is more or less sterile, and eggs can survive at room temperature without spoiling. You sort of have to try to make a rotten egg. Many of the food recalls due to salmonella in prepared products that contain eggs (like raw cookie dough from the store, for example) were recalled due to a microbial threat from the eggs, but often from other ingredients like flour or lettuce. All that's to say, I don't bother to pasteurize them. But I don't have a compromised immune system and don't cook for anyone who does. Even still, I feel like eating a runny fried egg yolk that hasn't been pasteurized is extremely safe and I don't know that I'd bother to pasteurize even if I did. That may say more about me than about eggs though.

[chromedome]

1 hour ago, btbyrd said:

But to get back to pasteurization, eggs are a relatively safe food to begin with and people tend to overestimate their danger. The interior of the egg is more or less sterile, and eggs can survive at room temperature without spoiling.

I'll agree to the first of those, as the generally accepted average (per CDC, FDA, et al) is 1 infected egg per 20,000.  Mind you they tend to come in bunches, so you can also have several thousand infected eggs showing up in a relatively small sample in a limited geographic time and space, which can be really inconvenient if you've already eaten your homemade mayo before the recall notice went out.

 

The second of those statements is less accurate, unfortunately. Yes, the shells are where you're likeliest to get contamination (everything comes out the same hole) but in an infected bird, the bacterium is present in the egg from day 1, well before the shell is formed. So you can't really count on sanitizing or blanching the shell to do the job. That being said, I absolutely do use raw, unpasteurized yolks myself. I'm just careful about who's eating them, and of course I'm only serving family and friends these days so that's a non-commercial scenario.

[kayb]

I'm not overly worried about the safety aspect; i.e,. while I use farm eggs, I am not concerned about pasteurizing them. I'm looking for a way to cook yolks to runny-yolk stage and hold them, to be warmed later as needed for breakfasts for one, in a minimal amount of time with a minimal amount of fuss. My best bet may just be to separate the egg, put it in a poaching cup, and just poach it a la minute. Because I know I'm not going to go to the trouble of setting up the SV for breakfast.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

27 minutes ago, kayb said:

I'm not overly worried about the safety aspect; i.e,. while I use farm eggs, I am not concerned about pasteurizing them. I'm looking for a way to cook yolks to runny-yolk stage and hold them, to be warmed later as needed for breakfasts for one, in a minimal amount of time with a minimal amount of fuss. My best bet may just be to separate the egg, put it in a poaching cup, and just poach it a la minute. Because I know I'm not going to go to the trouble of setting up the SV for breakfast.

 

 

How about poach the egg conventionally and leave the white on the plate?

 

[kayb]

14 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

How about poach the egg conventionally and leave the white on the plate?

 

I'm nine times out of 10 going to put it on top of something (potatoes, grits, toast), and the  white gets in my w toay. And then the dog gets too much white to eat. Although I guess if it's poached, it won't have enough fat to bother her pancreatitis.

 

[Anna N]

42 minutes ago, kayb said:

And then the dog gets too much white to eat. Although I guess if it's poached, it won't have enough fat to bother her pancreatitis.

Cost of an egg white~5-10 cents. Cost of a vet bill ~ infinity. Cost if your dog decides to sue for pain and suffering affecting both of you...  Bin the whites. 

[Dave the Cook]

1 hour ago, kayb said:

I'm nine times out of 10 going to put it on top of something (potatoes, grits, toast), and the  white gets in my w toay. And then the dog gets too much white to eat. Although I guess if it's poached, it won't have enough fat to bother her pancreatitis.

 

 

Per the USDA, the white from a large egg contains less than 1/10 gram of fat. Most of the fat is in the yolk: for a large egg, 4.51 g.

[kayb]

58 minutes ago, Dave the Cook said:

 

Per the USDA, the white from a large egg contains less than 1/10 gram of fat. Most of the fat is in the yolk: for a large egg, 4.51 g.

And she DOES love them so. Perhaps....but still, it would be simpler to poach them separately,  backk to the comment upthread that it's easier to separate them pre- as opposed to post-cook.

 

Lucy and I both thank you.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

8 hours ago, kayb said:

....but still, it would be simpler to poach them separately...

 

I note you use the comparative degree.  Howsoever so much simpler, I cannot believe pasteurizing individual intact egg yolks is what I'd call "simple".  In fact it sounds like a real mess.

 

Why not figure out what yolk temperature gives you the yolk consistency you love.  Then pasteurize whole eggs at that temperature per Baldwin's charts.  Separate the eggs at service and reheat yolks as necessary.  For topping grits or potatoes I suspect the grits or potatoes would supply sufficient heat themselves.

 

I use pasteurized yolks mainly for Hollandaise or Béarnaise and I just toss the whites.

 

[andiesenji]

I haven't read through this entire thread because some seem repetitive.

 

I have an electric pasteurizer that I used for batches of 3 to 5 dozen eggs when I was catering because of requests for salad dressings made with raw eggs, French style (soft) omelets, etc.

And for requests for eggnog for holiday parties.

 

Now I do smaller batches, usually a dozen at a time, Large, for mayonnaise, other sauces, salad dressings, etc.  

Large eggs at room temperature  are  placed in room temp water and bring it to at least 140°F and no more than 143°F and once it reaches this temp (i use a high-low alarm thermometer for small batches the pasteurized is automatic)  set the timer for 4 minutes which gives you a full minute to remove the eggs from the water.  

I "sacrifice" one egg with a probe thermometer inserted into the yolk to make sure it reaches the CRITICAL TEMPERATURE of 138° F.  Any temp below this will not only not kill the salmonella but will promote growth.  According to the California Egg Board.

 

Immediately rinse the eggs in cool water, dry the surface thoroughly and refrigerate.  They should be used within 10 days.

 

 

Holding them at 130°F  for long periods - if the YOLKS NEVER REACH 138° is potentially promoting growth of salmonella.

 

I bought the pasteurizer in 1979 when I began my adventure into cheesemaking.  I could buy "certified" raw milk at the local dairy outlet, and would pasteurize it myself before making my cheeses.  

 

When I began the catering, the Health Department gave me stacks of bulletins, one of which involved EGGS.  And the LIABILITY of using raw eggs. I spoke to one of the inspectors who checked my kitchen and showed him the pasteurizer and he said that would be perfectly adequate for pasteurizing eggs as the settings for liquid dairy products and for eggs were virtually identical. 

 

I have been pasteurizing eggs on a regular basis since 1982 and I have never had a problem.   

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by andiesenji (log)

[lindag]

13 minutes ago, andiesenji said:

I haven't read through this entire thread because some seem repetitive.

 

I have an electric pasteurizer....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you have / have had at least one of every piece of kitchen equipment manufactured in the last hundred years!!!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

11 hours ago, andiesenji said:

I haven't read through this entire thread because some seem repetitive.

 

I have an electric pasteurizer that I used for batches of 3 to 5 dozen eggs when I was catering because of requests for salad dressings made with raw eggs, French style (soft) omelets, etc.

And for requests for eggnog for holiday parties.

 

Now I do smaller batches, usually a dozen at a time, Large, for mayonnaise, other sauces, salad dressings, etc.  

Large eggs at room temperature  are  placed in room temp water and bring it to at least 140°F and no more than 143°F and once it reaches this temp (i use a high-low alarm thermometer for small batches the pasteurized is automatic)  set the timer for 4 minutes which gives you a full minute to remove the eggs from the water.  

I "sacrifice" one egg with a probe thermometer inserted into the yolk to make sure it reaches the CRITICAL TEMPERATURE of 138° F.  Any temp below this will not only not kill the salmonella but will promote growth.  According to the California Egg Board.

 

Immediately rinse the eggs in cool water, dry the surface thoroughly and refrigerate.  They should be used within 10 days.

 

 

Holding them at 130°F  for long periods - if the YOLKS NEVER REACH 138° is potentially promoting growth of salmonella.

 

I bought the pasteurizer in 1979 when I began my adventure into cheesemaking.  I could buy "certified" raw milk at the local dairy outlet, and would pasteurize it myself before making my cheeses.  

 

When I began the catering, the Health Department gave me stacks of bulletins, one of which involved EGGS.  And the LIABILITY of using raw eggs. I spoke to one of the inspectors who checked my kitchen and showed him the pasteurizer and he said that would be perfectly adequate for pasteurizing eggs as the settings for liquid dairy products and for eggs were virtually identical. 

 

I have been pasteurizing eggs on a regular basis since 1982 and I have never had a problem.   

 

 

 

 

 

I bit my tongue for some hours before responding.  Other states mock New Jersey for its former egg laws.  But if people are dying in the gutter and the citizenry are at the state house gates with pitchforks, it is right to take extreme measures to protect the public health.

 

Otherwise I suggest let science and common sense prevail.  I suspect a yolk pasteurized at 138F would make a strange Hollandaise indeed.  I call balderdash.

 

What evidence is there that salmonella lives at 55C?  Perhaps it is best to avoid lead cooking pots.  If I was from California I'd be more concerned about the carcinogenic coffee.

 

[andiesenji]

I was hospitalized for Salmonella in 1977, for 9 days.  It was traced to a Caesar salad at an upscale restaurant that prepared the salad at table side.  2 others in my party also were sickened, one hospitalized.  We learned later that at least one other patron became ill but no details.  The restaurant paid all the medical bills and settled without a law suit.  It was not fun and at one point I thought I was going to die because my kidneys began to fail.  I take it seriously.  

This year alone, a quarter of a BILLION eggs have been recalled for salmonella.  

I have made large batches of Hollandaise with pasteurized eggs, JUST AS THE COMMERCIAL HOLLANDAISE IS MADE, and many other sauces that use raw eggs. My mayonnaise has been praised by people who know foods.  When they were available at a local supermarket, I bought Davidson's Safest Choice Eggs, which are pasteurized. More expensive but less work for me.  

The following is from an article in one of the trade publications for food producers, distributors and end point sales.

"Even if investigators have indeed found the salmonella source, you may wonder, how can the bacteria get inside the hard shell of an egg? Let us count the ways.One route is through the insides of a chicken, said Kevin Keener, a food process engineer at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind. On average, he said, one out of every 20,000 chicken eggs contains a small amount of salmonella that is deposited into the sac by the hen.Chickens get doses of salmonella bacteria (of which there are 2,300 kinds) from their environment, which is easily contaminated by rodents, birds and flies. These carriers deliver the bacteria to all types of farms -- regardless of whether they're conventional, organic or free-range.Once the bacteria get in the chicken, the microorganisms thrive under ideal conditions, with internal temperatures of about 102 degrees Fahrenheit. Yet chickens harbor salmonella without any signs of illness, making it impossible to know which animals are infected."Literally," Keener said, "it's a needle in a haystack."Those few contaminated eggs that come out of a hen usually contain a very low levels of bacteria, Keener said, totaling between two and five microorganisms. It takes a level of at least 100 bacteria to make a person sick.But multiplication happens fast if the eggs aren't cooled quickly. And if there's a lapse in cleaning practices or an undetected outbreak among the chickens, the percentage of infected animals -- and tainted eggs -- can also increase rapidly."Salmonella doubles every 20 minutes under ideal conditions," Keener said. "When sitting there for an hour, two could become 32. At two hours, there would be 1,000 organisms. At eight hours, it would be in the range of millions. In one egg.   "Rapid chilling to 45 degrees: Keener's group is working on a rapid-cooling technique that uses liquid carbon dioxide to bring eggs down to 45 degrees F within five minutes. At that temperature, salmonella can't multiply.  stops growth  but does not guarantee that growth will resume once eggs are in the "danger zone" 49°F to 139°F.Salmonella tends to pool in the membrane around an egg's yolk, Keener added. So if you have a sunny-side-up habit, you should probably give it up.

For now, consumers can protect themselves by checking for broken eggs before buying cartons at the store, refrigerating eggs promptly and cooking eggs well. For vulnerable groups, such as the very young, the very old those with immune problems, pasteurized eggs are best."

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@andiesenji I agree pasteurized eggs are best.  We disagree about how to pasteurize.

 

[andiesenji]

I give up.  heating to 130 is not Pasteurizing.  Even Baldwin in his Sous Vide for the Home Cook says to heat to 135° for at least an hour and 15 minutes.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Even the most heat resistant strain of Salmonella is destroyed at 130F given enough time.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1057731/pdf/applmicro00336-0042.pdf