Cooking with "Modernist Cuisine" (Part 1)

[Guy MovingOn]

Can the macaroni and cheese be made with dried macaroni?

My girlfriend has a packet and keeps pestering me to cook it for her somehow... then I saw all these posts about the modernist mac and cheese and knew this would be the perfect way.

I'm pretty sure I have the relevant hydrocolloids to make it.

Could somebody post the amounts of cheeses/hydrocolloids and some simple instructions on how to make it?

It would seriously make my life a lot better if I could cook this for her!

Thanks!

[nickrey]

I'm in the process of making up the Pastrami that Nathan mentioned in an earlier post.

Instead of the recommended Wagyu beef cheeks, I'm using the Australian cut of topside (back part of round in US cuts). It's just gone into the brine/cure. Will sit there for 7 days, then be smoked, then cooked sous vide.

I'm not really worried about using a substitute meat as the book explicitly covers how to deal with different types of meat.

Will report back at the next stage.

[Tri2Cook]

I had a go at the mac and cheese, all a bit haphazard but was 700g of cheese (Gruyère 300g, Cheddar 300g, 100g Mahon).

Took 400ml of Theakstons Old Peculiar into thermomix set to varomma temp (i.e >100C) and brought to a boil to get rid of the alcohol. Then at about speed 8 added 3 teaspoons of sodium citrate and 4g of Kappa turned speed down and added the cheese bit by bit, turning up the speed to chop and using a spatula to wipe the sides down.

Why the kappa carrageenan? I don't have the book handy, but I'm pretty sure the iota and kappa are very different.

They are different. Kappa gels are much more brittle. Iota gels are elastic and much less prone to syneresis. The iota is much more freeze/thaw stable as well... but that's not really an issue in this case. I did the Heston Blumenthal version of processed cheese from his second In Search of Perfection book a few years ago. It didn't involve carrageenan, it was just sherry, aromatics, sodium citrate and cheese, but the addition of carrageenan makes sense. I'll have to play around with it.

[ermintrude]

I had a go at the mac and cheese, all a bit haphazard but was 700g of cheese (Gruyère 300g, Cheddar 300g, 100g Mahon).

Took 400ml of Theakstons Old Peculiar into thermomix set to varomma temp (i.e >100C) and brought to a boil to get rid of the alcohol. Then at about speed 8 added 3 teaspoons of sodium citrate and 4g of Kappa turned speed down and added the cheese bit by bit, turning up the speed to chop and using a spatula to wipe the sides down.

Why the kappa carrageenan? I don't have the book handy, but I'm pretty sure the iota and kappa are very different.

I recalled it was carrageenan and took a chance on kappa as I thought that would give me a better set for grating etc, seemed to work well.

I'll try iota next time

[emannths]

I'm in the process of making up the Pastrami that Nathan mentioned in an earlier post.

Instead of the recommended Wagyu beef cheeks, I'm using the Australian cut of topside (back part of round in US cuts). It's just gone into the brine/cure. Will sit there for 7 days, then be smoked, then cooked sous vide. [snip]

Given that Nathan said they use the equilibrium cure method, I'm surprised that 7 days is long enough. For example, these guys found the concentration of salt was not yet at equilibrium after 11 days in one of their experiments. Does MC say that they expect the meat to reach equilibrium by day 7?

[jmolinari]

I'm in the process of making up the Pastrami that Nathan mentioned in an earlier post.

Instead of the recommended Wagyu beef cheeks, I'm using the Australian cut of topside (back part of round in US cuts). It's just gone into the brine/cure. Will sit there for 7 days, then be smoked, then cooked sous vide. [snip]

Given that Nathan said they use the equilibrium cure method, I'm surprised that 7 days is long enough. For example, these guys found the concentration of salt was not yet at equilibrium after 11 days in one of their experiments. Does MC say that they expect the meat to reach equilibrium by day 7?

My thoughts exactly. Which is why i've asked twice about the equilibrium cure that Nathan said they developed. I'm sure my question has just been missed within the slew of posts.

[Chris Hennes]

I no longer have access to the review copy, but aren't those beef cheeks quite small? It's not like you're curing an entire brisket in seven days. Also, does the quantity of fat in the Wagyu alter the speed that the brine penetrates? I didn't get a chance to read that chapter, unfortunately... just have to wait until the real thing arrives.

[rmillman]

If you are ever in the need to quickly degas a liquid such as in making solution for spherification or making clearer ice try using an clean old wine bottle and one of the wine vacuum pump sealers ($10). You can rapidly apply a decent vacuum to a liquid: do this a couple of times and alginate solutions become earier to work with.

[Chris Amirault]

That is so obvious yet so ingenious!

[jmolinari]

I no longer have access to the review copy, but aren't those beef cheeks quite small? It's not like you're curing an entire brisket in seven days. Also, does the quantity of fat in the Wagyu alter the speed that the brine penetrates? I didn't get a chance to read that chapter, unfortunately... just have to wait until the real thing arrives.

I believe fat actually slows brine penetration. The transport mechanism is water, and fat has a lower % of water than muscle tissue does. So, my gut tells me that if anything a wagyu cheek would require more time than a normal beef cheek.

[Kerry Beal]

I had a go at the mac and cheese, all a bit haphazard but was 700g of cheese (Gruyère 300g, Cheddar 300g, 100g Mahon).

Took 400ml of Theakstons Old Peculiar into thermomix set to varomma temp (i.e >100C) and brought to a boil to get rid of the alcohol. Then at about speed 8 added 3 teaspoons of sodium citrate and 4g of Kappa turned speed down and added the cheese bit by bit, turning up the speed to chop and using a spatula to wipe the sides down.

Why the kappa carrageenan? I don't have the book handy, but I'm pretty sure the iota and kappa are very different.

I recalled it was carrageenan and took a chance on kappa as I thought that would give me a better set for grating etc, seemed to work well.

I'll try iota next time

I used the product from Xenex labs - it's a mixture of kappa and iota - worked just fine too.

[Caruso]

This brings up a question, is there any chance on the foreseeable future that we will be able to obtain a decent chamber sealer un the sub 600 range or are they just destined to remain in the $1+ range.

Not quite at the sub $600 range yet, but I just got an email from Sous Vide Supreme announcing their own chamber vacuum sealer for $799

I really want one of these!

[ermintrude]

This brings up a question, is there any chance on the foreseeable future that we will be able to obtain a decent chamber sealer un the sub 600 range or are they just destined to remain in the $1+ range.

Not quite at the sub $600 range yet, but I just got an email from Sous Vide Supreme announcing their own chamber vacuum sealer for $799

I really want one of these!

US only at the moment wonder how that will translate when it get's across the pond ?

At £500 tempting £799 althouugh I'd like it would have to be a no.

[LoftyNotions]

This brings up a question, is there any chance on the foreseeable future that we will be able to obtain a decent chamber sealer un the sub 600 range or are they just destined to remain in the $1+ range.

Not quite at the sub $600 range yet, but I just got an email from Sous Vide Supreme announcing their own chamber vacuum sealer for $799

I really want one of these!

See post #19 in this thread.

[nickrey]

I'm in the process of making up the Pastrami that Nathan mentioned in an earlier post.

Instead of the recommended Wagyu beef cheeks, I'm using the Australian cut of topside (back part of round in US cuts). It's just gone into the brine/cure. Will sit there for 7 days, then be smoked, then cooked sous vide. [snip]

Given that Nathan said they use the equilibrium cure method, I'm surprised that 7 days is long enough. For example, these guys found the concentration of salt was not yet at equilibrium after 11 days in one of their experiments. Does MC say that they expect the meat to reach equilibrium by day 7?

I no longer have access to the review copy, but aren't those beef cheeks quite small? It's not like you're curing an entire brisket in seven days. Also, does the quantity of fat in the Wagyu alter the speed that the brine penetrates? I didn't get a chance to read that chapter, unfortunately... just have to wait until the real thing arrives.

I copied the recipe before access stopped.

The wagyu cheeks are brined for 72 hours only and are around 250g each. The recipe is for 1 kg and in the substitution section, they say to brine brisket, fatty end, for 7 days. Took that as around equivalent, especially considering my piece of topside is only 600g. Will let you know results.

I note from your link emannths that the piece of meat they referred to there was 1.2kg, that's twice the size of my piece.

[emannths]

Re: brining/curing...

The size and shape certainly make a difference in how long it will take stuff to equilibrate. But even half a brisket is going to easily exceed the weight of their test piece, and the thicker point end will probably not have any shape advantage of the (unnamed, though probably loin or shoulder) piece of pork those guys used. One way or another, the results seem at odds with each other. FWIW, they think their experiment shows that it takes at least 19 days per kg to reach equilibrium.

If I were to design a curing recipe, the parameters I think I'd use would be the mass of the meat, the leanness of the meat, and the width of the thinnest cross-section. The mass and leanness tells you how much brine you need, and the width tells you how long it will take to diffuse in. Obviously the guys at sausagemaking.org tried to incorporate some of this, but they didn't incorporate all of it. I was hoping that perhaps MC used this approach, or provided the rationale for an alternate one. Sounds like the answer may be that it doesn't, at least when it comes to determine the time necessary to reach cure equilibrium.

[jmolinari]

The nice thing about equilibrium curing is that it can't "over-cure". I would lean towards leaving i too long than too short.

[vice]

Wouldn't you want to take into account width at the thickest point if you're going for an equilibrium method?

[emannths]

Wouldn't you want to take into account width at the thickest point if you're going for an equilibrium method?

How do I word this--I knew "thinnest cross-section" wasn't very precise language. What I mean is you want to know the minimum distance the salt has to travel to get for the outside of the meat to every piece inside. So if you assume a piece of meat can be defined by HxWxD, you time your curing based on the smallest of those three values. So if you take a brisket flat, it would be the "height" of the brisket (what, maybe 2" for a flat and 4"+ for a point?)--the main idea being that point and flat cuts of brisket of equivalent weights will have different curing times because one is flatter than the other.

Regardless, it sounds like MC doesn't use this approach to determine brine times, so for the purposes of this thread, the discussion is moot. I suppose we can continue in the Corned Beef topic or the a charcuterie topic.

Edited March 2, 2011 by emannths (log)

[vice]

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

[jmolinari]

I believe the word you are searching for is "thickness"

[PhyllisBFP]

Thanks, all of you who have posted. It is really amazing to read your information and work arounds.

P

[Guy MovingOn]

could someone please post the ratios or % mass of the ingredients for the macaroni cheese please?

[Shalmanese]

If you poked some slits in the brisket, would that accelerate brining time?

[Chris Amirault]

I'm going to make the mac & cheese tonight when I get home (to serve with some pulled pork sandwiches and a few other things), so I thought I'd share a tweaked version of the ratios in the book. We found that it was a bit too salty, and I wanted a stronger cheddar component. I also tweaked the techniques a bit.

Whisk & simmer

• 100g water
  
• 75g (wheat) beer
  
• 10g sodium citrate
  
• 4.5g salt
  
• 1.25g iota carrageenan
  

Grate and combine over low heat:

• 140g aged gouda (was 200g)
  
• 145g aged cheddar (was 80g)
  

Stir until melted/emulsified. Pour into container; bring to room temp; freeze. Just before serving, pull it from the freezer and grate/shred 160g.

Boil over high heat:

• 300g water
  
• 100g macaroni
  
• 1g salt [down from 2.4g]
  

Don't drain it. When pasta is al dente, add cheese and heat through until smooth and combined.

I then put it in a Le Creuset au gratin pan, topped it with seasoned breadcrumbs, and let it sit until the broiler for a couple of minutes.

Oh, and, yes, that's dried macaroni, not fresh.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Chris Amirault
typo fix -- CA (log)