Induction Cooktops

[Laurentius]

Staff note: This post and responses to it have been moved from the Graphite core cookware: Does graphite heat under induction? discussion to maintain topic focus.

 

On 6/3/2024 at 8:12 PM, paulraphael said:

They all only work on ferrous metals.

This is false.  I own a dual-frequency induction hob that induces both copper and aluminum.

[palo]

A good buying guide for induction cookers:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-portable-induction-cooktop/#how-we-tested

 

Sort of a more in depth evaluation than ATK

 

Seems like their winner, the Duxtop 9600LS, could be considered a Control Freak rival at a considerably lower price

 

p

[paulraphael]

12 hours ago, Laurentius said:

This is false.  I own a dual-frequency induction hob that induces both copper and aluminum.

Can you link to this? Last I looked for such thing they only existed as concepts.

 

How well does it do on copper? Is there a noticeable difference when you switch metals? Do you have to change settings?

[Duvel]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

Can you link to this? Last I looked for such thing they only existed as concepts.

It’s been commercialized …

 

 

[palo]

8 minutes ago, Duvel said:

It’s been commercialized …

 

 

Link doesn't lead anywhere with product listings

 

p

[Duvel]

4 minutes ago, palo said:

Link doesn't lead anywhere with product listings

 

p

Really ..?! Mine clearly references the Panasonic KY-MK3500 …

 

[palo]

My apologies, after deeper digging found this:

 

https://na.panasonic.com/us/food-service-systems/commercial-equipment/induction-cooktops/panasonic-commercial-induction-cooktop

 

p

[Duvel]

11 minutes ago, palo said:

My apologies, after deeper digging found this:

 

https://na.panasonic.com/us/food-service-systems/commercial-equipment/induction-cooktops/panasonic-commercial-induction-cooktop

 

p

Aaaaaand that the link in the second post. Glad we are on the same team 🤗

 

23 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Mine clearly references the Panasonic KY-MK3500 …

 

[Laurentius]

4 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Can you link to this? Last I looked for such thing they only existed as concepts.

 

How well does it do on copper? Is there a noticeable difference when you switch metals? Do you have to change settings?

 

It's definitely beyond the concept stage.  It's been available in Japan for years.  Try here:  https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m53781273987/?gclsrc=aw.ds&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17807057024&utm_content=t0&adgroup=139339603819&network=g&device=c&merchant_id=126358573&product_id=m53781273987&product_id=1931555151504&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9vqyBhCKARIsAIIcLMHbBkjcObv4Zc3dMKA8bhEs5qr03fxqpV2b7u3RlPcimlkxd_zvuFgaApQOEALw_wcB

 

There was a discussion of the Panasonic Met-ALL posted here 5-6 years ago. 

 

I think it works well with copper.  Panasonic limited the output of the higher frequency mode to 2400W (vs. 3600 for "regular").  I always wondered why until I met with a Vollrath engineer, who told me that full power under a light aluminum pan it would levitate the pan off the appliance.

 

Unfortunately, dual frequency induction has become Betamaxed out of the market.

[paulraphael]

7 hours ago, Laurentius said:

I think it works well with copper.  Panasonic limited the output of the higher frequency mode to 2400W (vs. 3600 for "regular"). 

 

This is great news (even if old news). The Panasonic is also a 240v device, as it would have to be at that power rating. That may be why it's not officially sold in the US. Peculiar that the technology isn't everywhere, including multi-burner cooktops. I only see references to this Panasonic unit, and to a Vollrath one that's harder to find.

 

 

7 hours ago, Laurentius said:

I always wondered why until I met with a Vollrath engineer, who told me that full power under a light aluminum pan it would levitate the pan off the appliance.

 

 

From my (very brief) reading on this, the engineers don't even have to limit the power.  It's naturally limited by the inductance of the pan material. A coil that delivers 3600W to iron will deliver less to aluminum or copper. It's not a matter of efficiency; it will pull less power from the wall as well. A coil that delivers 3600W to aluminum could be made, but it would be more expensive, and would either deliver much more than this to iron, or would have to have its power deliberately limited in low-frequency mode.

 

 

[Laurentius]

9 hours ago, paulraphael said:

From my (very brief) reading on this, the engineers don't even have to limit the power.  It's naturally limited by the inductance of the pan material.

Well, both Panasonic and Vollrath say this unit's power was design-limited to 2400W, and I was given a reason for that limit.  Frankly, that's still a lot of power for pans made of conductive metals.

 

I think it's a shame that dual-frequency appliances haven't become widely available.

[rotuts]

BTW   does anyone know the cost od the panasonic unit ?

 

I could not find it.

 

w 2400 W   its 220 V ?

[Laurentius]

10 hours ago, rotuts said:

BTW   does anyone know the cost od the panasonic unit ?

 

I could not find it.

 

w 2400 W   its 220 V ?

 

It's not offered in USA any longer, for reasons I don't understand.  You might find new old stock.

 

I paid $700, and the last price I saw was $999.

 

Yes, 220/240VAC

[Laurentius]

11 hours ago, Laurentius said:

It's not offered in USA any longer, for reasons I don't understand.  You might find new old stock.

 

I found some new, old stock.  Price is $850, plus shipping.

 

Anyone who is ready to buy, please PM me.

[Smithy]

This article from  allrecipes.com came through my newsfeed this morning:

Cook Anywhere You Want With the Best Portable Induction Cooktops

 

It seems to be a pretty nice rundown of portable induction cooktops that are currently available at relatively low cost. (They mention the Breville Control Freak as the ne plus ultra, but exclude it from these reviews due to its price.)

 

Here's the curious thing about the review, though: in every case they complain that they couldn't get water to boil at 212F; it sat at a rolling boil at around 210F. I wanted to shake them, or at least write and ask about their methods. What elevation were they at? At what depth did they measure the temperature in that pot of water? (I assume it was for the pot of pasta water they were boiling.) Did they try it with lid on and off? 

 

So, my questions:

1. Is anyone here a member of allrecipes.com with the inclination to write and ask them about their methodology?

2. Does anyone here feel like testing their induction cooktop's water-boiling ability to see what temperature it reaches?

3. They imply that the water temperature would be more critical in a restaurant. I think basic physics stands in their way. Am I missing something?

 

 

[Laurentius]

On 7/3/2024 at 5:53 AM, Smithy said:

Am I missing something?

 

1.  No.  Second-guessing gear reviews on sites like this is pretty useless.

2.  I've already tested this.  A 1500W or 1800W PIC will struggle to boil more than about 3 quarts of water.  From there on down to about 3 cups, the water will boil, but you may not make it to 212F.

3.  Not sure what you (or they) mean here.  It's critical THAT water boils, and if we're talking about boiling in restaurant volumes, an appliance that draws the same wattage as a blow-dryer is a nonstarter.

[haresfur]

On 6/2/2024 at 9:42 PM, chromedome said:

Saw this today on Wired, and couldn't agree more. I've said repeatedly (including here, IIRC) that aside from its other virtues induction would be a great technology as we age and become forgetful in the kitchen, because of the safety features, reduced risk of serious burns, etc, BUT... For the love of all that's holy, put knobs on the #*#!! things!

 

https://www.wired.com/story/touch-controls-on-stoves-suck-knobs-are-way-better

 

 

I agree. Induction is so much safer, although I developed a bad habit of picking spilled food up with my fingers and throwing it back into the pan. I finally figured out the magic sequence to turn on my Ikea portable burner after about a year of just hitting buttons in random order until something worked. Knobs would be nice but are harder to clean.

 

I think I've said before that the biggest thing for me is to have fine settings for the power level. To me it is more important to be able to control the heat at the low end rather than the absolute power. Also, it is better if it drops the power rather than just cycling it on and off.

[afs]

On 7/4/2024 at 7:39 PM, Laurentius said:

So the cooks know by sight that their food will denature per plan in the designated time.  IMO there's nothing critical about 212F versus 211 or 210 at sea level.

@Laurentius, you had me at denature.