Lemon Chiffon Cake

[Patrick S]

Do you find chiffon layers sink under filling?  I'd like to fill this cake with lemon curd (posted on the Lemon Curd thread, looking for a firm-ish curd) and some sort of lemon cream. 

But when I once filled a chocolate chiffon cake with mousse etc. the layers compressed - maybe I'd done something wrong - but it's scared me a little off filling chiffon cakes.

What's the secret, if there is one?  If I were to fill the centre with a curd and a cream, and top it again with cream and curd, do you think RLB's chiffon cake would stand up under it or compress or slip under all that weight?  And, how many layers do you think I could reasonably create (looking at 3) without having layers slip out from underneath?  Remembering the tropical heat I'm working in averages about 30 - 33 deg C.

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As I recall, this cake was more than sturdy enough to support some lemon curd.

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Great picture and Thanks.

I am bad at foam cake and would like to try this...

what pan did you bake in? and what is the approximate height of the finished cake?

Any warning before i jump in?

Thnks

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Sorry I missed your questions, iii_bake.

I baked this cake in a 10" tube pan.

The finished cake is about 4.5-5" tall.

Tips: seperate your eggs while they are cool, but beat your whites at room temp. Fold the ingredients together gently, but also make sure you do it thoroughly -- the batter should look homogenous -- no streaks or egg whites or of the flour mixture. Don't open the oven til your ready to test the cake for doness, and when you do that, be quick. Don't put the tube pan on top of a baking sheet as an insurance policy against drips -- air needs to be able to circulate through the middle of the tube pan. That's all I can think of. Good luck!

[iii_bake]

Do you find chiffon layers sink under filling?  I'd like to fill this cake with lemon curd (posted on the Lemon Curd thread, looking for a firm-ish curd) and some sort of lemon cream. 

But when I once filled a chocolate chiffon cake with mousse etc. the layers compressed - maybe I'd done something wrong - but it's scared me a little off filling chiffon cakes.

What's the secret, if there is one?  If I were to fill the centre with a curd and a cream, and top it again with cream and curd, do you think RLB's chiffon cake would stand up under it or compress or slip under all that weight?  And, how many layers do you think I could reasonably create (looking at 3) without having layers slip out from underneath?  Remembering the tropical heat I'm working in averages about 30 - 33 deg C.

←

As I recall, this cake was more than sturdy enough to support some lemon curd.

←

Great picture and Thanks.

I am bad at foam cake and would like to try this...

what pan did you bake in? and what is the approximate height of the finished cake?

Any warning before i jump in?

Thnks

←

Sorry I missed your questions, iii_bake.

I baked this cake in a 10" tube pan.

The finished cake is about 4.5-5" tall.

Tips: seperate your eggs while they are cool, but beat your whites at room temp. Fold the ingredients together gently, but also make sure you do it thoroughly -- the batter should look homogenous -- no streaks or egg whites or of the flour mixture. Don't open the oven til your ready to test the cake for doness, and when you do that, be quick. Don't put the tube pan on top of a baking sheet as an insurance policy against drips -- air needs to be able to circulate through the middle of the tube pan. That's all I can think of. Good luck!

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Got it. Thanks, Patrick.

I will go thru the recipe and start right away (with crossed fingers).

iii

[iii_bake]

Dear Patirck,

Again, Thanks for the advice.

The chiffon is now hanging on the bottle neck!

I was so ignorant that i put the cake on the middle rack...it was too close to the top heat and the cake burnt on the top. The batter fills to the rim of the mould...is it supposed to be so?

When in the oven, it rose about an inch, back to the rim when took out.

Is this normal?

Like i said, i am totally blank about foam cake.

I use silicone flute mould. Hope i can take it out successfully.

I am happy with my first attempt so far.

Thanks

iii

[iii_bake]

Here's the result:

The cake finished almost 4 inch tall with burnt top and stuck bottom

I have no removable bottom pan so i used silicone one.

I got it from Crate n Barrel...but the cake stuck!?!

What do we do with this type of mould though if you cannot remove the cake easily?

What should i do? ( of course i will find the removable one....but what about this silicone thing?)

Sad-O-Sad, kindly help

iii

[Patrick S]

   

Here's the result:

The cake finished almost 4 inch tall with burnt top and stuck bottom

I have no removable bottom pan so i used silicone one.

I got it from Crate n Barrel...but the cake stuck!?!

What do we do with this type of mould though if you cannot remove the cake easily?

What should i do? ( of course i will find the removable one....but what about this silicone thing?)

Sad-O-Sad, kindly help

iii

   

←

Something has gone very wrong if the top of the cake is burnt -- either the oven is too hot, or you've baked too long.

Personally, I have not had favorable experiences with silicone cake pans, except for my silicone loaf pan, which I mostly use to mold fudge and things like that. If I were you, what I would do is chill the cake in the frudge, then use a plastic knife or something like that to try to free as much of the cake from the side of the pan as you can. For the bottom of the cake, I guess all you can really do is reach your hand in there, and try to pull it from the bottom as best you can. If you mangle the cake, you can always cut off the top and bottom.

[Pam R]

I'll add my 2 cents here - skip the silicone. Get a metal tube or angel food cake pan. The cake will stick to the pan. That's what you want, which is why you need a removable bottom. Sticking to the pan is what helps keep it high. After cooling upside down, I also like to refrigerate it for a while before removing. Then I slide a thin blade around the outside and the inside of the cake and gently push the bottom up.

The silicone mold would be better suited to a coffee cake than a chiffon cake - a recipe that calls for greasing/flouring.

[iii_bake]

Thanks Patrick & Pam.

I have to go get the removable one.

In the meantime, i guess i have to look for foam cake recipe that can be baked in nine inch spring pan to give myself a go on the foaming technique. That is the only one with removable bottom i have.

Thanks again.

iii

[reenicake]

if your tube pan is silicone and you have the sides loosened, don't be afraid to turn the whole pan completely inside out (like a sock) to get to the bottom, that's what it's made to do. That the top of the cake burned is more of a concern, maybe you need to lower the oven shelf to compensate for the height of the pan...

[ambra]

Do you find chiffon layers sink under filling?  I'd like to fill this cake with lemon curd (posted on the Lemon Curd thread, looking for a firm-ish curd) and some sort of lemon cream. 

But when I once filled a chocolate chiffon cake with mousse etc. the layers compressed - maybe I'd done something wrong - but it's scared me a little off filling chiffon cakes.

What's the secret, if there is one?  If I were to fill the centre with a curd and a cream, and top it again with cream and curd, do you think RLB's chiffon cake would stand up under it or compress or slip under all that weight?  And, how many layers do you think I could reasonably create (looking at 3) without having layers slip out from underneath?  Remembering the tropical heat I'm working in averages about 30 - 33 deg C.

←

As I recall, this cake was more than sturdy enough to support some lemon curd.

I was wondering if anyone had any other experience with this...I will be making this for the first time in my life for my Mother in laws birthday. Chiffon cake with lemon curd filling. I can't find a copy of RLB's, so i will find a recipe on the internet. But I suddenly became worried that just any recipe, might actually sink. Does any have any experience with that happening or not happening?

Also any recommendations for an icing or frosting?

Thank you in advance...

[oli]

Patrick, I have a question for you. When you use Herme's lemon creme on the Chiffon cake, isn't the lemon creme a little too runny to be applied as a frosting?

[Kerry Beal]

Patrick, I have a question for you. When you use Herme's lemon creme on the Chiffon cake, isn't the lemon creme a little too runny to be applied as a frosting?

The lemon cream firms up to about the texture of mayonnaise.

[oli]

I guess I will add some gelatin, which will aid in transportation.

Thanks

[oli]

I followed Patrick's suggestion of using lemon creme and so far I am letting things cool.

My question is, after I inverted the cake on a bottle, 12 minutes had passed and while I making the lemon creme, the cake fell out of the pan. Not too much damage, just a bit of the side of the cake, stuck to the side of the pan. Is this normal?

Edited December 6, 2009 by oli (log)

[Yoda]

Hi guys,

 

as I am nit a professional baker, and nit even that experienced one, I only have one cake pan for now, and it's a 6x4" (15x10cm) round cake pan without removable bottom. 

 

Could I still make this cake (from TCB) in this pan, or will it not rise enough since there is no tube in the middle?

 

I'd like to make it as a birthday cake, so I actually would prefer it to be without a hole in the middle But I have no idea how important it is/ if it makes a big difference if I just use a regular cake pan for this cake?

 

Any help or suggestions so very much appreciated, thank you!

[blue_dolphin]

1 hour ago, Yoda said:

Hi guys,

 

as I am nit a professional baker, and nit even that experienced one, I only have one cake pan for now, and it's a 6x4" (15x10cm) round cake pan without removable bottom. 

 

Could I still make this cake (from TCB) in this pan, or will it not rise enough since there is no tube in the middle?

 

I'd like to make it as a birthday cake, so I actually would prefer it to be without a hole in the middle But I have no idea how important it is/ if it makes a big difference if I just use a regular cake pan for this cake?

 

Any help or suggestions so very much appreciated, thank you!

 

You can bake a chiffon cake in a regular cake pan but it should be an uncoated pan, usually aluminum.  If your pan has any sort of non-stick coating inside, forget it.  The chiffon cake batter needs to be able to stick to the sides and climb up as it rises so don't grease the sides either.  Likewise, if your pan has a dark coating on the outside, that's not a good idea either as it can make the edges too dark. 

 

Having a removable bottom helps getting the cake out of the pan but you can line the bottom with parchment paper and run a knife around the edges to help them release. Chiffon cakes are quite delicate but the small size of your pan may be a plus there.

 

I'd guess that you could get two 6" layers out of a recipe made for a 10-inch tube pan.  So bake one with half the batter, cool, remove the cake, wash out the pan and bake the second one.   In either case, make sure to leave enough room for the cake to rise.

 

A 10-inch tube pan is quite versatile as you can use it for angel food cakes, chiffon cakes or bundt cakes so you might check around to see if you can find one. 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2024 by blue_dolphin
clarification (log)

[Yoda]

Thank you very much for your reply and suggestions @blue_dolphin!

 

Luckily my pan is anodized aluminium - so I guess it's not non-stick? And also light in color

 

Oh, I also have a baking belt/ cake belt? That you dampen with water and place it around the cake pan - but I'm not sure whether this is favourable for this cake?

 

I also did not use it for baking genoise - I think this was the right call? Otherwise I think it wouldn't bake without collapsing?

 

One more thing, do you guys use regular storebought lemons for the zest? If so, how do you wash them to get rid of the waxes and potential pesticides? Eh..just writing this down made me feel it's best to use washed BIO lemons...

How do you wash the fruits before zesting? Warm water and.....baking soda? I'm pretty sure not with dishsoap?.. I'm sorry for the awkwardness of my questions. I usually just buy the zest, but think it'd be better to use fresh zest. Please help me out 🙏

 

[blue_dolphin]

12 minutes ago, Yoda said:

One more thing, do you guys use regular storebought lemons for the zest? If so, how do you wash them to get rid of the waxes and potential pesticides? Eh..just writing this down made me feel it's best to use washed BIO lemons...

How do you wash the fruits before zesting? Warm water and.....baking soda? I'm pretty sure not with dishsoap?.. I'm sorry for the awkwardness of my questions. I usually just buy the zest, but think it'd be better to use fresh zest. Please help me out 🙏

 

I buy organic lemons at my local farmers market. They aren't waxed or coated with anything so I just use a scrub brush and warm water to clean them up.  Hotter water would be a good idea to remove wax.  Pesticides could possibly be incorporated in the skins and I haven't studied enough to know whether using a detergent is helpful in removing it.   For me personally, I don't believe I consume enough lemon zest to worry about it.  My homemade limoncello is probably the most risky, with a lot of zest extracted in an organic solvent (EtOH) but even there, since I'm using organic fruit, the alcohol is probably more of a health risk

[Yoda]

Thank you, I also think buying organic/BIO is best for lemons zest and think I will get those. Even a small amount of pesticides doesn't sound appealing, even though it's maybe not enough to cause harm.

 

Mmmm limoncello. I also wanted to make it this year but didn't quite get to making it

[Kim Shook]

I made this cake to take to church Sunday.  I followed @Patrick S's advice.  I.E. - doubling the juice and the zest, using a 10-inch tube pan, not putting the pan on top of a sheet pan.  I served it topped with @Tropicalsenior's amazing, easy microwave lemon curd.  It was positively delectable.  Every single person who tasted it loved it and one lady took a chunk of it home.  There was almost 2/3 of the cake left because people are weird.  The store-bought stuff went fast - cookies, pies, etc.  The homemade stuff was just not even sampled for the most part.  I will definitely be making this again - the texture was gorgeous and the flavor was perfect.  I was lucky enough to have a bunch of lemons from my BIL's lemon tree in Phoenix.  

 

 

 

[Smithy]

5 hours ago, Kim Shook said:

I made this cake to take to church Sunday.  I followed @Patrick S's advice.  I.E. - doubling the juice and the zest, using a 10-inch tube pan, not putting the pan on top of a sheet pan.  I served it topped with @Tropicalsenior's amazing, easy microwave lemon curd.  It was positively delectable.  Every single person who tasted it loved it and one lady took a chunk of it home.  There was almost 2/3 of the cake left because people are weird.  The store-bought stuff went fast - cookies, pies, etc.  The homemade stuff was just not even sampled for the most part.  I will definitely be making this again - the texture was gorgeous and the flavor was perfect.  I was lucky enough to have a bunch of lemons from my BIL's lemon tree in Phoenix.  

 

 

 

 

Dang...I'd take that over storebought stuff any day. Thanks for the report!

[Kim Shook]

I do have a question for anyone who has made this cake or just anyone who had a copy of The Cake Bible.  I don't have a copy of the book (at least that I can find 😁).  So I did a search and found this recipe.  This one says it is adapted from the Cake Bible recipe and is the one that I used.  And it was fantastic, as I said.  So, I just was searching for this again so that I could put it on my webpage and I stumbled across this other recipe. which is supposed to be the same recipe that is in The Cake Bible.  My question is about the number of eggs in the recipe.  The one that I used called for 7 egg whites and 3 egg yolks, so that I had 4 egg yolks left over.  The other one calls for 7 eggs, separated plus 3 additional whites.  That means that there is supposedly a total of 7 egg yolks and 10 egg whites in The Cake Bible recipe.  Can someone please look and tell me if that is really the number of eggs that The Cake Bible specifies? Or if that poster made a typo?  Thanks!

 

[OlyveOyl]

@Kim Shook  Cake Bible pg. 157 indicates 7 large eggs separated plus 3 additional whites.  I will DM you.

Edited June 5, 2024 by OlyveOyl (log)

[Kim Shook]

4 hours ago, OlyveOyl said:

@Kim Shook  Cake Bible pg. 157 indicates 7 large eggs separated plus 3 additional whites.  I will DM you.

Thank you so much, @OlyveOyl!  As I said to you, that is really a HUGE difference.  

[Yoda]

Hey guys, I would appreciate some pointers for baking times and temperatures for the Lemon Chiffon Cake if I bake it in a normal, 6" round cake pan?

 

How long should I bake the cake for? I'm afraid of overbaking it, or opening the oven doors too soon to check on it, so it might collapese?

 

Do I adjust the baking temperature at all?

 

Thank you!

[Yoda]

So... I made the cake..

 

I ended up making half of the batter the recipe calls for and baked in a 6" round cake pan.

 

I made a few mistakes.

 

1. I managed to overbeat the eggs whites. So I ended up adding extra 15 g of egg whites into the overbeaten egg whites and while it did help a bit, I'm not sure it solved the issue lol.

2. I think I've somehow underbaked it.

I baked at 160 C (325 F) for about 45 min amd then checked for doneness. 

The skewer came out clean, but when I pressed on the top of the cake, I could hear foam breaking/popping underneath which gave me an impression it wasn't set/fully baked yet?

So I baked for another 7 min afyer which I just took the cake out because it was very dark already. I could still hear the foam popping when pressing on the top of the cake though - does anyone know what happened here?

The cake did fall down a bit at this point.

The sides that are sticking out like a mushroom (see photos) are very firm/hard crust.

 

It's now inverted and cooling. So I am not sure yet what I managed to produce 😅

 

I am making this for a birthday cake tomorrow (yes, I'm so late 🤐🤐) so I will probably be doing another one tomorrow. 

 

I would greatly appreciate ANY SUGGESTIONS!

 

Thank you very much!

 

I'm including some pictures.

P.s.the batter came about 1 inch from the top (using 6x4" pan) when I poured it into the pan

 

 

Edit: UPDATE:

The cake turned out delicious! Despite the whites being overbeaten (whoopsy).

I made a layered cake (3x 3cm thick) with Hermes Lemon cream, mascarpone+whipped cream filling with strawberries.

I have made too much lemon cream, so I'll have to make another cake for the weekend 🤣🤣🤣

Edited August 1, 2024 by Yoda
Added update (log)