Updating the Kitchen Essentials

[Norm Matthews]

It's taking quite a bit of self control for me not to go into a large vent over the times and ways that CI reviews have been "sometimes flawed"

[Mjx]

Cook's Illustrated may have some aggravating issues (e.g. discussed here, Cook's Illustrated), but it (and the ATK cookbooks) does provide a solidly accessible and useful point of departure for someone who is 'starting from zero', and many of their recommendations are reliable. Case in point, the Fibrox knives, discussed here; they're good knives, if not the best out there, and have the advantage of tolerating the dishwasher, which is a deal-maker (and relationship-saver) for many. Alhough I loathe what dishwashers can do to many things, my boyfriend tosses everything into the dishwasher, every chance he gets. With a lot of knives, this would set the stage for some gruesome drama; with the Fibrox chef knife we have, I'm just 'Eh, whatever', since I know it will survive the ordeal more or less unscathed.

[andiesenji]

One point about the Forschner Victorinox knives with the Fibrox handles  -  the butcher knives, the big ones, are the preferred brand for many butcher shops (a local butcher shop even sells them to customers) - the butchers at Stater Brothers market here in Lancaster use only those knives because they can be sterilized without the handles breaking down.

 

If they are good enough for the professionals who use knives all day long, and for tough, heavy cutting, then they are good enough for me. 

 

I've had this one for 18 years, it has been through the dishwasher numerous times, has cut through a lot of meat and has a wickedly sharp edge.

 

It's big and hefty but cutting through a rack of ribs to divide them in to steaks or chops, it is ideal.

 

[Shel_B]

One point about the Forschner Victorinox knives with the Fibrox handles  -  the butcher knives, the big ones, are the preferred brand for many butcher shops (a local butcher shop even sells them to customers) - the butchers at Stater Brothers market here in Lancaster use only those knives because they can be sterilized without the handles breaking down.

 

If they are good enough for the professionals who use knives all day long, and for tough, heavy cutting, then they are good enough for me. 

 

 

I bought my very first knife, a Forschner Victorinox, from the local butcher in Berkeley back in the early-mid 1970's.   That's what most of the guys in the shop used.

[Porthos]

I have the 10" Fibrox (NSF approved) and also the 10" with the rosewood handle (non-NSF approved). They both serve me well. The Fibrox is available for anyone in my Ren Faire kitchens to use. I have noticed that the young man who has cooked for me for a couple of years and is waiting to turn 18 to enroll in the culinary school he has chosen gravitates toward that knife even though there are other 10" knives to be had. As head of the kitchen I reserve the rosewood handled knife for myself.

 

To reiterate what has already been said: how a knife feels in your individual hand is what matters fregarding fit. For quality you don't want to go to the grocery store and buy some no-name for $10 bucks hoping for the best; you will very likely be soon disappointed.

 

Alex, I hope you will update us as you take this journey letting us know what you have found you do like and don't like.

[takadi]

How often do Victorinox knives need to be sharpened? Do they take well to sharpening? How well does the edge hold to things like bone (chicken, pork, not beef)

[Norm Matthews]

I had a restaurant before I was aware Victorinox was available but I outfitted that kitchen with similar NSF restaurant supply knives with thick stamped blades and comfortable molded handles.  The ones I had were like Victorinox in that they sharpened very sharp and very easily and kept an edge reasonably well.  Victorinox knives are popular with food service people probably because they are good service tools,  easy to care for and not expensive to replace when they disappear or get lost.

 

I have nothing against Victorinox knives.  They are decent knives, I just tend to get a little rabid at the mention of CI sometimes.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Norm Matthews (log)

[andiesenji]

How often do Victorinox knives need to be sharpened? Do they take well to sharpening? How well does the edge hold to things like bone (chicken, pork, not beef)

As long as they are kept "dressed" with a steel, they don't require sharpening all that often.  I also have one of the "scimitar" shaped knives that I use on poultry and it will cut through bones without a problem.  It is also 18 years old but probably has not had as much use as the butcher knife.

 

It is just slightly more flexible than the butcher knife and is handy for deboning a large bird turkey or goose.

[cowboyardee]

The problem with wanting the DSLR of cookware is there's nothing that really fits that bill. In cookware, highly automated technology tends to be esoteric; versatile equipment tends to rely on your skills. I'd suggest that you go the versatile route and resign yourself to slowly building up those skills. Maybe a Weber charcoal grill - you can do damn near anything with one if you're good enough.

 

On to knives...

 

There are a number of cheap options that are quite good. The Victorinox have been mentioned often and are quite. Kiwi brand knives sharpen extremely well, though they don't come in classical chef knife shapes. Rada knives are quite cheap and sharpen very well. Mercer and Mundial both offer German style blades that are on par with the quality of old standbys like Wusthof Classics but cost a third of the price. Or if you look just a little higher, you can find knives like the Tojiro DP and the CCK Chinese Cleaver for under $100, which are not merely great cheap knives but great knives in general.

 

Even more important than the knife is that you have some way to sharpen it. A dull knife is useless. If you want to go the professional sharpening route, a steel or ceramic honing rod would be a good idea. If you might be interested in sharpening at home, you might want to look into different sharpeners before you buy a knife to make sure that whatever you buy is appropriate for your sharpening solution. I could tell you more about home sharpening systems if you're interested. 

 

How often do Victorinox knives need to be sharpened? Do they take well to sharpening? How well does the edge hold to things like bone (chicken, pork, not beef)

They're relatively easy to sharpen. They're unlikely to chip or snap if used to cut chicken bones, but the edge can warp a bit and will definitely wind up a little duller for the effort. You could probably manage to chop through some pork bones, but it would be better to just buy a meat cleaver - there are some cheap ones on the market that will mow through pork bones. Cutting along but not into either kind of bone will cause some dulling (like any knife) but shouldn't cause any other problems.

 

As for how often to sharpen - depends on how you use them and how you sharpen em. Victorinox are fairly comparable to German knives like Wusthof in terms of edge retention, but not to the level of most Japanese knives. How often you need to sharpen depends a lot on usage -  so a home cook might be fine sharpening only once a year while a line cook in a busy kitchen might find a victorinox gets dull every week or so. But it also depends on your particular definition of whOat's sharp enough. You can keep an extremely fine edge by avoiding a steel entirely and touching up often with a medium or fine grit whetstone - using the whetstone almost like a steel, for day to day maintenance. Or, OTOH, you might feel more comfortable getting only the rare professional sharpening done and using either a steel or a coarse ceramic 'honing' rod to keep the edge kindof jagged, which helps it rip into food. Two different people don't necessarily have the same definition of sharp. From a functional standpoint, it's probably most important that a knife is sharp enough to allow you to use good, efficient cutting technique. That threshold is somewhere around the point at which a knife cuts easily through a ripe tomato without sawing or squishing. Everything beyond that depends on preference.

[Blether]

A stand-alone deep-fat fryer is the ultimate point-and-shoot.  The film even comes in cartridges from the freezer cabinets at the store.  You'll always be able to have something tasty and satisfying on the table in twenty minutes with no skill or prep.

[clairelv]

i lived with my parents before and just moved out few months ago .i want to equip my kitchen and realized it should be a lots of money !!   right ?  i think i couldn't finish it right now . so many gadgets you need to buy ! countless ....

i have to equip my kitchen little by little . first of all is something you must own i already got .    this is what i got today  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X5WQO1E.  i want to know normally how much do you cost for your kitchen ?

[SylviaLovegren]

Depends on how much $$$ you have.  When I was hippy and lived in a San Francisco commune (a hundred years ago, or so) we didn't have enough money to buy baking sheets, so we used brown paper to bake cookies on.  People with no money and primitive kitchens have been cooking delicious food for thousands of years.

 

If you're that kind of person, check out your local thrift stores for decent used things.  If you really want something but can't afford the top of the line, substitute, wait or settle for a lesser brand until you can afford the good one.

 

If you're looking for an item that is usually very expensive, check kajiji or craigslist to see if you can pick one up used.

 

Figure out what you need vs. what you want and budget accordingly. 

[Smithy]

I don't think there's a "normal" answer to your question as to how much it costs to set up a kitchen. It depends on many, many issues, including your location. When I moved out of my parents' house it was an excuse for my parents to buy new dishes (so they could give me their old ones). I had a lot of hand-me-down appliances from family and friends. I visited thrift stores. If you have thrift stores in your area and are patient, you can find amazingly good deals. To see what I mean, go look at this topic: Yard Sale, Thrift Store, Junk Heap Shopping (Part 2) and its predecessor.

[liuzhou]

It also very much depends on what you want to cook. My kitchen is very simple by my standards, but ridiculously complex by my neighbours' standards. They have one wok and one knife. End of.

[LizD518]

After living on my own for 20 years I realize I have way more things that I actually really need on a daily basis.  Start with the basics and build your way up.  No need for everything to match or for every gadget right away.  If you really want All Clad, go to TJ Maxx or Marshalls and look for better versions of cookware on discount.

[Shel_B]

If you really want All Clad, go to TJ Maxx or Marshalls and look for better versions of cookware on discount.

 

Does TJ Maxx and Marshalls carry All-Clad? 

[mgaretz]

Does TJ Maxx and Marshalls carry All-Clad?

In as much as they "carry" anything, you can often find some All Clad pieces there. HomeGoods too, (same ownership). Edited June 30, 2015 by mgaretz (log)

[weinoo]

What do you have already?

 

What kind of cooking do you do?

 

Before "gadgets," I'd invest in 2 good knives - a chef's knife (or something similar) and a paring knife.  A few saucepans (say 1 & 3 quart), an 8" and 10" frying pan, maybe a larger (8 qt) soup/stock pot.  When I first started cooking seriously, I bought a Chinese cleaver and a good wok, and cooked practically everything with those.

 

It's the cook, not the kitchen, making the food.

[Porthos]

I second the question of what kind of cooking do you do or want to do.

 

You can't go wrong with Weinoo's list of basic items.

 

If you live in an area with enough population to have thrift stores, you can pick up equipment there as stated above. You do need to examine each item you consider for hidden damage and it helps to know what a new equivalent would cost.

 

I have a personal bias against glass and plastic mixing bowls. Glass can break and is heavy; plastic never really completely cleans up after being in contact with oils or fats. I strongly recommend stainless steel bowls.

 

I've been married for 37 years and lived on my own for 6 years before that and have always cooked. I still add equipment to our kitchen to this day.

 

Enjoy making your kitchen you own.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Porthos (log)

[Shel_B]

I have a personal bias against glass and plastic mixing bowls. Glass can break and is heavy; plastic never really completely cleans up after being in contact with oils or fats. I strongly recommend stainless steel bowls.

 

 

The problem with only SS bowls is that they can't be used in a microwave oven, so it may be a good idea to have both glass and SS bowls.  I agree that avoiding plastic is a good way to go.

[Porthos]

Well said, Shel_B. I forget that some people use there microwaves for something other than re-heating and thawing.

[Shel_B]

It's almost impossible to say how much I've spent for kitchen and cooking gear.  It's been an ongoing - seemingly never-ending - process for almost forty years.

 

The one thing I've learned is that you don't always need what you think you need.  Take your time making decisions, and take your time deciding just what to get.  Wherever possible and appropriate, buy the best that you can afford, and look for things that will last as well as give you pleasure and good cooking results.

 

I second looking in thrift stores, garage and yard sales, and using eBay and Craigs List.  I've gotten a lot of great items at thrift stores and garage sales for just a dollar or three.  Recently I purchased a 32 piece set of dinnerware for $19.00 at a thrift store, four different sized Corningware casseroles with lids for an average price of $2.00 each ... the list goes on and on.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Shel_B (log)

[Alex]

i lived with my parents before and just moved out few months ago .i want to equip my kitchen and realized it should be a lots of money !!   right ?  i think i couldn't finish it right now . so many gadgets you need to buy ! countless ....

i have to equip my kitchen little by little . first of all is something you must own i already got .    this is what i got today  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X5WQO1E.  i want to know normally how much do you cost for your kitchen ?

 

We could offer better answers if you tell us what you already have, what you like to cook (or would like to learn to cook in the near future), how much storage and counter space you have available, and, of course, how much money you can comfortably spend.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Alex (log)

[Arey]

You really shouldn't rush out and buy anything until you give friends and relatives a chance to get rid of all those things they have , but don't use, and can't bring themselves to throw out by dumping them on you.  Mind you, I'm speaking from my viewpoint, when I moved out my mother gave me a set of knives and forks she'd gotten with green stamps, some spare plates and cups and saucers, and a cast iron pan. As you cook you'll find the things you need and can buy them as you need them.  If money isn't an issue I'd get a food processor, stand mixer, blender, Breville smart oven,  some really good knives, and some nice pots and pans.  Since you moved out a few months ago you may be past the initial stage and ready to lay out some real money. If I had the space I'd get a Breville Smart Oven, but I've been living on my own for over 50 years and have reached the point where I have to decide what I'm going to give  the thrift shop before I can buy anything new. I just hope my oven and fridge outlive me.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Arey (log)

[Kerry Beal]

The problem with only SS bowls is that they can't be used in a microwave oven, so it may be a good idea to have both glass and SS bowls.  I agree that avoiding plastic is a good way to go.

Causes a shit storm every time I bring it up - but I do use stainless bowls in the microwave.