Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza

[Kerry Beal]

10 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

I finally got around to making a couple of "Old Forge" pizzas last week. This is not a style that MC is enamored with, though they give a recipe anyway, calling it "our take" on Old Forge pizza. It's basically the Wonder Bread of pizza: a bland, slightly sweet, overly thick crust. The basic recipe only has a scattering of onions as a topping. Don't get me wrong, I stand by my belief that even bad pizza is still good. But this is sort of bottom of the barrel for a homemade pizza, in my opinion. No reason to make it again...

 

 

 

 

Looks like it needs butter!

[lemniscate]

That's middle school cafeteria pizza.   I'd know that anywhere!   Pizza day was very important.

[Chris Hennes]

Exactly. I mean, I think the sauce here was better than in my school days, but overall, just not a great pizza. But I am as happy about pizza day now as I was then...  

[Chris Hennes]

Continuing with the Deep Dish, but trying to make it somewhat less ridiculous, last night's entry had much less cheese, and much more vegetation. It's again the Modernist crust variant, which I think is very good, and then filled with braised collards, sausage crumbles, roasted tomatoes, roasted red peppers, and roasted green peppers. The bottom cheese is a sliced sharp cheddar of indeterminate brand (Imperfect Foods), and the top cheese is pizza cheese. I used about half as much cheese as the standard recipe called for, and probably went a bit over the filling. I also added the tomato sauce to the top midway through baking in an attempt to get it to thicken just a bit to give a nicer slice presentation. My best deep dish entry so far.

 

[Robenco15]

13 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Continuing with the Deep Dish, but trying to make it somewhat less ridiculous, last night's entry had much less cheese, and much more vegetation. It's again the Modernist crust variant, which I think is very good, and then filled with braised collards, sausage crumbles, roasted tomatoes, roasted red peppers, and roasted green peppers. The bottom cheese is a sliced sharp cheddar of indeterminate brand (Imperfect Foods), and the top cheese is pizza cheese. I used about half as much cheese as the standard recipe called for, and probably went a bit over the filling. I also added the tomato sauce to the top midway through baking in an attempt to get it to thicken just a bit to give a nicer slice presentation. My best deep dish entry so far.

 

Chris, that’s really nice. Congrats on that bake and a beautiful pic!

[Chris Hennes]

Pizza Gourmet with Oyster Cream, Ham, and Caviar (KM p. 255)

 

I have never made the "Pizza Gourmet" crust before: it's basically a bao that's first steamed and then browned in the oven, allowed to cool, and then topped with whatever you are topping it with. Honestly, I didn't really have high hopes for this crust. And the toppings in the first assembly recipe are insane.

 

The sauce is made from mascarpone, ricotta, and smoked oysters. It's then topped with Jabugo ham, caviar, and black truffles. Black truffles are actually in season right now, so that's the real deal on there, bought from Alma Gourmet. The caviar is American White Sturgeon (also from Alma) and I managed to track down actual Jabugo ham, which was a bit of an adventure (I'd never had it before... good lord it is incredible).

 

So anyway, you know how this goes: some chef, probably in Las Vegas, decides that if you just dump enough expensive ingredients on a thing it will taste good, and that's never really true. Except. Sometimes it is true. Honestly the crust was so-so: not a lot of flavor, just slightly sweet, firm, and very obviously a vehicle for the toppings. Which were absolutely f'ing stellar. I probably can't afford to ever make this again, but it tasted incredible.

 

I will point out that the sauce (50g mascarpone, 50g ricotta, 30g smoked oysters, 1g salt) was delicious in its own right, and would be a great sauce for any mushroom pizza that has a crust baked ahead.

 

The first slice:

\

 

An attempt to get the toppings more evenly distributed when eating it:

[gfweb]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:24 PM, Chris Hennes said:

I finally got around to making a couple of "Old Forge" pizzas last week. This is not a style that MC is enamored with, though they give a recipe anyway, calling it "our take" on Old Forge pizza. It's basically the Wonder Bread of pizza: a bland, slightly sweet, overly thick crust. The basic recipe only has a scattering of onions as a topping. Don't get me wrong, I stand by my belief that even bad pizza is still good. But this is sort of bottom of the barrel for a homemade pizza, in my opinion. No reason to make it again...

 

 

 

 

 

Old Forge is a NE Pennsylvania style that should be suppressed.

[Robenco15]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:24 PM, Chris Hennes said:

I finally got around to making a couple of "Old Forge" pizzas last week. This is not a style that MC is enamored with, though they give a recipe anyway, calling it "our take" on Old Forge pizza. It's basically the Wonder Bread of pizza: a bland, slightly sweet, overly thick crust. The basic recipe only has a scattering of onions as a topping. Don't get me wrong, I stand by my belief that even bad pizza is still good. But this is sort of bottom of the barrel for a homemade pizza, in my opinion. No reason to make it again...

 

 

 

 

As an elementary school teacher, I may prefer the cafeteria pizza over this (not a judgement on you, just the style). The cheese pizza doesn’t look bad honestly, just bready af. I may make this though just to check it our for myself. 

[Chris Hennes]

Just now, Robenco15 said:

As an elementary school teacher, I may prefer the cafeteria pizza over this (not a judgement on you, just the style).

You are practically a connoisseur then! Does your cafeteria have thick crust or thin?

[Chris Hennes]

Smoked Salmon and Caviar Pizza (KM p. 219)

 

Last night's pizza "only" used about 1/3 of the 1oz jar of caviar, and obviously you can't let such a thing go to waste. So tonight's pizza continued on the theme of "food my wife won't like so I eat it when she's gone" and featured flavors from Wolfgang Puck. You bake an artisan crust with just olive oil and red onions, then spread a sauce of sour cream, shallots, lemon juice, and dill over it (still hot). Top that with smoked salmon and finish with dollops of caviar. Obviously a totally classic flavor combination, just a bit unexpected on a pizza. Still, hard to go wrong with smoked salmon and caviar for dinner!

 

[weinoo]

11 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Last night's pizza "only" used about 1/3 of the 1oz jar of caviar, and obviously you can't let such a thing go to waste. So tonight's pizza continued on the theme of "food my wife won't like so I eat it when she's gone" and featured flavors from Wolfgang Puck. You bake an artisan crust with just olive oil and red onions, then spread a sauce of sour cream, shallots, lemon juice, and dill over it (still hot). Top that with smoked salmon and finish with dollops of caviar. Obviously a totally classic flavor combination, just a bit unexpected on a pizza. Still, hard to go wrong with smoked salmon and caviar for dinner!

 

This pizza basically started the whole "California pizza" thing. Probably first served at Spago (or maybe even before that when Wolfgang was at Ma Maison?).

[Robenco15]

16 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

You are practically a connoisseur then! Does your cafeteria have thick crust or thin?

Thick crust. It’s not too bad with a spicy tomato sauce. 
 

What’s your Jabugo story?

[Chris Hennes]

5 hours ago, Robenco15 said:

What’s your Jabugo story?

Just that it's hard to find: the place I ended up buying from was very sketchy-looking, with a circa-2005 website and not much said about them online. Considering the price of the stuff, I was a little nervous that the whole place was a scam. I was almost surprised when the package showed up and the product was legitimate.

[Chris Hennes]

Tonight's pizza combined ideas from the previous two nights: I made the smoked oyster sauce from the first pizza, baked an artisan crust with shallots and olive oil like the second, and topped it after baking with what started out as a pound and a half of mushrooms (I used king trumpet, maitake, and shiitake, and roasted with olive oil and salt). And a "little bit" of black truffle for good measure.

 

[Robenco15]

9 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Tonight's pizza combined ideas from the previous two nights: I made the smoked oyster sauce from the first pizza, baked an artisan crust with shallots and olive oil like the second, and topped it after baking with what started out as a pound and a half of mushrooms (I used king trumpet, maitake, and shiitake, and roasted with olive oil and salt). And a "little bit" of black truffle for good measure.

 

I really need to bite the bullet and get a truffle so I can have a 3-5 days or just amazing meals no matter what I make as I’d just shave truffles all over it. 

[Chris Hennes]

Another "deep dish pizza" -- based on a Cook's Illustrated Vegetable Torta. I think I've gotten pretty far afield from "pizza" here, even by Chicago-style Deep Dish standards.

 

[weinoo]

8 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I think I've gotten pretty far afield from "pizza" here, even by Chicago-style Deep Dish standards.

 

You THINK????????

[Robenco15]

Moved into a new home (well I bought my childhood home) and got a 30” GE Monogram range. It’s awesome. To my delight it also fits a full size blue steel Al Taglio pan (24”x16”)!

 

The pan arrived unseasoned in its raw blue steel form. Two choices to season it. The normal way with oil (smells up the house) or put 4lbs of course sea salt in it and bake at 500+ for 5 minutes off and on 4 times. I went with the salt method as that seemed easiest. 
 

 

Then I made the Direct High Hydration Al Taglio dough. Pretty straightforward, but @Chris Hennes, how did it go when you added the additional water? I had to stop the mixer and knead the dough by hand in the bowl for a few minutes to help the water absorb. Then after adding the oil and allowing it to absorb, I put the mixer on high, but it never really came together in a ball. High hydration is annoying with a dumb stand mixer. The 2.5 hour bulk with folding every 30 minutes helped a ton though and everything else proceeded fine.

 

 

I decided to top it how I do a Grandma

pie as my wife really likes that and I think it would go over well for an upcoming party so it was oil, romano cheese, provolone, sauce, romano cheese, and oil. 
 

 

After 15 minutes of baking while sitting on my new 16”x16” 3/8” thick baking steel (love this thicker one!) it came out looking great. 
 

 

Unfortunately, the salt seasoning was a complete bust and the thing stuck like crazy. I had to slide a spatula underneath all of it to get it to release. Was pretty miserable after spending 6.5 hours on this (and I started at 4pm! Ha! I’m an idiot!)

 

 

All that said, the pizza I salvaged was actually pretty unbelievable. I’ve never had a pizza with such a crispy and crunchy bottom and light and airy crumb (obviously the parts that didn’t stick to the pan). The Al Taglio blue steel pan really made a difference compared to sheet pan pizzas I’ve done in the past. Tomorrow I’m going to clean the pan and season it with a light coating of oil and bake at 550 convection for an hour. Smell be damned, I’m going to get this right. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

15 minutes ago, Robenco15 said:

Moved into a new home (well I bought my childhood home) and got a 30” GE Monogram range. It’s awesome. To my delight it also fits a full size blue steel Al Taglio pan (24”x16”)!

 

The pan arrived unseasoned in its raw blue steel form. Two choices to season it. The normal way with oil (smells up the house) or put 4lbs of course sea salt in it and bake at 500+ for 5 minutes off and on 4 times. I went with the salt method as that seemed easiest. 
 

 

Then I made the Direct High Hydration Al Taglio dough. Pretty straightforward, but @Chris Hennes, how did it go when you added the additional water? I had to stop the mixer and knead the dough by hand in the bowl for a few minutes to help the water absorb. Then after adding the oil and allowing it to absorb, I put the mixer on high, but it never really came together in a ball. High hydration is annoying with a dumb stand mixer. The 2.5 hour bulk with folding every 30 minutes helped a ton though and everything else proceeded fine.

 

 

I decided to top it how I do a Grandma

pie as my wife really likes that and I think it would go over well for an upcoming party so it was oil, romano cheese, provolone, sauce, romano cheese, and oil. 
 

 

After 15 minutes of baking while sitting on my new 16”x16” 3/8” thick baking steel (love this thicker one!) it came out looking great. 
 

 

Unfortunately, the salt seasoning was a complete bust and the thing stuck like crazy. I had to slide a spatula underneath all of it to get it to release. Was pretty miserable after spending 6.5 hours on this (and I started at 4pm! Ha! I’m an idiot!)

 

 

All that said, the pizza I salvaged was actually pretty unbelievable. I’ve never had a pizza with such a crispy and crunchy bottom and light and airy crumb (obviously the parts that didn’t stick to the pan). The Al Taglio blue steel pan really made a difference compared to sheet pan pizzas I’ve done in the past. Tomorrow I’m going to clean the pan and season it with a light coating of oil and bake at 550 convection for an hour. Smell be damned, I’m going to get this right. 

 

Thank you for the toes.  Next time I would like to see them on the pizza. Painting them would be an artistic culinary touch.

 

[Robenco15]

25 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Thank you for the toes.  Next time I would like to see them on the pizza. Painting them would be an artistic culinary touch.

 

Yeah saw those after the fact. Oh well. Some people are into that. 

[scott123]

51 minutes ago, Robenco15 said:

Tomorrow I’m going to clean the pan and season it with a light coating of oil and bake at 550 convection for an hour. Smell be damned, I’m going to get this right.

The flax oil in fine art goes through the identical polymerization as pan seasoning. Granted,it takes days for the oil to set up, but, it's proof that seasoning a pan need not be smoky. If you have time- and are willing to deal with a hot house, you can season an oil at slightly below the oil's smoke point.  It will take hours- I would give it a minimum of 6 hours, but the oil will polymerize. Once the oil has solidified, you can then ramp up the heat briefly to give it the characteristic black color and it shouldn't smoke at all.  The biggest downside to this approach is that you will want to repeat it about 3 times.  But the high heat/smoky approach will take a few coatings as well.  Good seasoning will always involve multiple coats.

[rotuts]

@Robenco15 

 

where did you learn about salt curing ?

[Robenco15]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

@Robenco15 

 

where did you learn about salt curing ?

Directions to do it came with the pan. Had never heard of it before. 

[Robenco15]

On 10/23/2021 at 11:11 AM, Chris Hennes said:

Yeah, it's something they wrote about in Modernist Bread -- what you're really trying to do is hydrate the flour, that's what's causing the gluten formation, not the mechanical mixing action. You can basically instantly hydrate it by putting it in a chamber vacuum and running a cycle. With a dough like this one, it's hard to get the mixer to grab it, even running at 100% speed, so I don't bother. Get it mixed, and then into the chamber.

Have an Avid Armor USVX chamber vacuum arriving tomorrow. Going to have to figure out how to best fit the dough in it, but looking forward to trying it out. 
 

Could I put the dough in a bag? Chamber is too small for any bowl/cambro, but I can fit a 10x13 bag. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Robenco15 (log)

[Robenco15]

21 hours ago, scott123 said:

The flax oil in fine art goes through the identical polymerization as pan seasoning. Granted,it takes days for the oil to set up, but, it's proof that seasoning a pan need not be smoky. If you have time- and are willing to deal with a hot house, you can season an oil at slightly below the oil's smoke point.  It will take hours- I would give it a minimum of 6 hours, but the oil will polymerize. Once the oil has solidified, you can then ramp up the heat briefly to give it the characteristic black color and it shouldn't smoke at all.  The biggest downside to this approach is that you will want to repeat it about 3 times.  But the high heat/smoky approach will take a few coatings as well.  Good seasoning will always involve multiple coats.

I seasoned the pan 3 times today at 550F for an hour. Each time with a 2 hour cool down before coating again and baking. Going to make another pizza tomorrow. Will see how it goes.