Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's "Modernist Pizza"

[Chris Hennes]

I've been in a sort of pizza-crust rut for the last six months or so: Neapolitan, Modernist Artisan, and Brazilian Thin, many many times each. I was feeling "adventurous" this week, however, so I branched out. A tiny bit. I had a go at the high-hydration Artisan dough, which is something like 85% hydration. No need for dough relaxer here!! Overall while it was a delicious crust, with a really excellent texture, I have to say that it's only a very small improvement on the Modernist Artisan crust, and was really only noticeably better on day two: days one and three I prefer the non-high-hydration option. And it was definitely trickier to work with! By the third day I sort of had a system, but getting the pizza onto the peel was still touch-and-go.

 

Day 1: Riff on their "Morel and Asparagus" topping combo. Bottom layer of sauce was yellow tomatoes blended with cream. Then pizza cheese and cheddar cheese, then par-cooked asparagus. Topped after baking with Daniel Humm's siphoned hollandaise (which is amazing) and sliced jarred truffles. Delicious, but pretty badly misshapen: the dough was very difficult to stretch out on the day it was made (something like 8 hours old).

 

Day 2: Tony Gemignani's tomato sauce from Modernist Bread, Pizza cheese, Olives and shallots. This was the crust's best showing, flavor-wise. It was easier to work with than the first day, but still a pain.

 

Day 3: Fresh cherry tomato sauce (crushed cherry tomatoes, olive oil, salt, and red pepper flakes), pizza cheese. Easiest to work (though maybe just from experience), but flavor wasn't as good as the previous day.

[Mike H]

17 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I've been in a sort of pizza-crust rut for the last six months or so: Neapolitan, Modernist Artisan, and Brazilian Thin, many many times each. I was feeling "adventurous" this week, however, so I branched out. A tiny bit. I had a go at the high-hydration Artisan dough, which is something like 85% hydration. No need for dough relaxer here!! Overall while it was a delicious crust, with a really excellent texture, I have to say that it's only a very small improvement on the Modernist Artisan crust, and was really only noticeably better on day two: days one and three I prefer the non-high-hydration option. And it was definitely trickier to work with! By the third day I sort of had a system, but getting the pizza onto the peel was still touch-and-go.

 

Day 1: Riff on their "Morel and Asparagus" topping combo. Bottom layer of sauce was yellow tomatoes blended with cream. Then pizza cheese and cheddar cheese, then par-cooked asparagus. Topped after baking with Daniel Humm's siphoned hollandaise (which is amazing) and sliced jarred truffles. Delicious, but pretty badly misshapen: the dough was very difficult to stretch out on the day it was made (something like 8 hours old).

 

Day 2: Tony Gemignani's tomato sauce from Modernist Bread, Pizza cheese, Olives and shallots. This was the crust's best showing, flavor-wise. It was easier to work with than the first day, but still a pain.

 

Day 3: Fresh cherry tomato sauce (crushed cherry tomatoes, olive oil, salt, and red pepper flakes), pizza cheese. Easiest to work (though maybe just from experience), but flavor wasn't as good as the previous day.

 

I don't know how you managed to shape the pizzas as well as you did. I had enough trouble at 72% hydration (King Arthur Bread flour) that I won't be tempted to go higher right away. 

As for cherry tomatoes as a sauce base - I find them too seedy for my taste, but your pizza looks so good that I'd definitely give it another try!

[Chris Hennes]

OK, here goes... my first foray into deep dish pizza. Inspired by my recent pizza in Chicago, I decided it was time. Of course, because I am irresponsible I tried to immediately replicate the pizza I had there, instead of actually, you know, following the recipe. 🙃

 

At any rate, I made the standard (non-Modernist) deep dish pizza dough, and the deep dish sauce as written, and I did follow the assembly advice they gave, more or less... so I figure this still counts as cooking from the book. The dough is low-hydration, is lard-and-butter enriched, and has a cornmeal addition, so it's quite different from the other doughs. It is rolled out an placed in a 2" deep pan. I don't have a 12.5" deep dish pan, and can't eat that much pizza anyway, so I made a 9" pizza using a cake pan, which worked fine although I probably rolled the crust too thin, at least based on Giordano's example. Once the dough is emplaced, it is lined with sliced cheese, ostensibly to protect it from the fillings. Also, I presume, as an excuse to add more cheese, because good grief these pizzas have a %^&*-ton of cheese. So used Cabot extra sharp cheddar, and lined the bottom and sides pretty thoroughly. Then I topped that with a Modernist Bechamel (a.k.a. thickened milk), steamed baby spinach, ricotta, garlic confit, and a TON of pizza cheese (3-4x what I'd normally use on a pizza this size). The whole thing seemed like an exercise in topping excess, but this is the only recipe in the book where they admonish that it's better to over-top than to under-top. So... OK then. That whole thing goes into a 480°F convection oven for twenty minutes. It cools for five minutes or so, is sliced, plated, and only then topped with sauce. I found the sauce to be too thin compared to Giordano's, but it's not like they are some kind of gold standard or anything. Anyway, a bit thicker would have made for a better-looking slice. Still, I was pretty pleased with this as a first attempt.

 

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

OK, here goes... my first foray into deep dish pizza. Inspired by my recent pizza in Chicago, I decided it was time. Of course, because I am irresponsible I tried to immediately replicate the pizza I had there, instead of actually, you know, following the recipe. 🙃

 

At any rate, I made the standard (non-Modernist) deep dish pizza dough, and the deep dish sauce as written, and I did follow the assembly advice they gave, more or less... so I figure this still counts as cooking from the book. The dough is low-hydration, is lard-and-butter enriched, and has a cornmeal addition, so it's quite different from the other doughs. It is rolled out an placed in a 2" deep pan. I don't have a 12.5" deep dish pan, and can't eat that much pizza anyway, so I made a 9" pizza using a cake pan, which worked fine although I probably rolled the crust too thin, at least based on Giordano's example. Once the dough is emplaced, it is lined with sliced cheese, ostensibly to protect it from the fillings. Also, I presume, as an excuse to add more cheese, because good grief these pizzas have a %^&*-ton of cheese. So used Cabot extra sharp cheddar, and lined the bottom and sides pretty thoroughly. Then I topped that with a Modernist Bechamel (a.k.a. thickened milk), steamed baby spinach, ricotta, garlic confit, and a TON of pizza cheese (3-4x what I'd normally use on a pizza this size). The whole thing seemed like an exercise in topping excess, but this is the only recipe in the book where they admonish that it's better to over-top than to under-top. So... OK then. That whole thing goes into a 480°F convection oven for twenty minutes. It cools for five minutes or so, is sliced, plated, and only then topped with sauce. I found the sauce to be too thin compared to Giordano's, but it's not like they are some kind of gold standard or anything. Anyway, a bit thicker would have made for a better-looking slice. Still, I was pretty pleased with this as a first attempt.

 

 

 

 

How did it taste?

 

[Chris Hennes]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

How did it taste?

You saw the ingredients — how could that taste bad?! 😁It was delicious.

[KennethT]

12 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

OK, here goes... my first foray into deep dish pizza. Inspired by my recent pizza in Chicago, I decided it was time. Of course, because I am irresponsible I tried to immediately replicate the pizza I had there, instead of actually, you know, following the recipe. 🙃

 

At any rate, I made the standard (non-Modernist) deep dish pizza dough, and the deep dish sauce as written, and I did follow the assembly advice they gave, more or less... so I figure this still counts as cooking from the book. The dough is low-hydration, is lard-and-butter enriched, and has a cornmeal addition, so it's quite different from the other doughs. It is rolled out an placed in a 2" deep pan. I don't have a 12.5" deep dish pan, and can't eat that much pizza anyway, so I made a 9" pizza using a cake pan, which worked fine although I probably rolled the crust too thin, at least based on Giordano's example. Once the dough is emplaced, it is lined with sliced cheese, ostensibly to protect it from the fillings. Also, I presume, as an excuse to add more cheese, because good grief these pizzas have a %^&*-ton of cheese. So used Cabot extra sharp cheddar, and lined the bottom and sides pretty thoroughly. Then I topped that with a Modernist Bechamel (a.k.a. thickened milk), steamed baby spinach, ricotta, garlic confit, and a TON of pizza cheese (3-4x what I'd normally use on a pizza this size). The whole thing seemed like an exercise in topping excess, but this is the only recipe in the book where they admonish that it's better to over-top than to under-top. So... OK then. That whole thing goes into a 480°F convection oven for twenty minutes. It cools for five minutes or so, is sliced, plated, and only then topped with sauce. I found the sauce to be too thin compared to Giordano's, but it's not like they are some kind of gold standard or anything. Anyway, a bit thicker would have made for a better-looking slice. Still, I was pretty pleased with this as a first attempt.

 

 

 

Out of sheer curiosity, how many calories do you think are in that pizza?  Between the lard/butter crust and the 8000 pounds of cheese... yikes.  Diet food it is not!

[weinoo]

6 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Out of sheer curiosity, how many calories do you think are in that pizza?  Between the lard/butter crust and the 8000 pounds of cheese... yikes.  Diet food it is not!

 

I think that depends on how much of it you eat 😂 !

 

Deep Dish Pizza – 12 inch (Medium) NUTRITIONS Calories 3482 cal Fiber 21 g Carbohydrates 330 g Protein 183 g […]

[Chris Hennes]

 

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

 

I think that depends on how much of it you eat 😂 !

 

Deep Dish Pizza – 12 inch (Medium) NUTRITIONS Calories 3482 cal Fiber 21 g Carbohydrates 330 g Protein 183 g […]

 

Well heck, mine was only 9", it was practically health food!

[Chris Hennes]

Swinging back to the other end of the pizza spectrum, I'm again on a research expedition, this time in Phoenix. It's been something like 15 years since my last visit to Pizzeria Bianco, so I was definitely looking forward to going again, this time with significantly more pizza knowledge (and experience) under my belt.

 

The pizzas:

 

Marinara:

 

Margherita:

 

Rosa (you saw me make this one up-topic a ways: Red Onion, Parmigiano Reggiano, Rosemary, Pistachios):

 

Biancoverde (Fresh Mozzarella, Parmigiano Reggiano, Ricotta, Arugula):

 

Wise Guy (Wood-Roasted Onion, House Smoked Mozzarella, Fennel Sausage):

 

Marinara again (because good lord it is spectacular):

 

The most striking thing about all of these pizza was how crispy the crust was, and how crispy it stayed while eating the pizzas. This was true even of the marinara, despite its heavy tomato topping.

 

In my opinion the marinara is the best pizza on the menu. I actually planned on getting all six pizzas over the course of the two meals I ate there, but I couldn't resist getting the marinara a second time for lunch today, so I have not yet had the "Sonny Boy" (olives and salami).

 

I also stand by my original impression of the Rosa: the first slice is great, but it does not hold up to time well at all, so by the second slice I'm much less impressed. I'm not saying we didn't eat the whole thing, mind you . I also wish they spent a few more seconds getting the toppings on it more evenly distributed. This pizza in particular suffered a bit from lopsided topping application.

 

Though last night we waited over three hours, today for lunch we arrived at 10:30am and were the third group in line, so got in on the first seating at 11:00. Clearly if time is an issue, lunch is your best option!

[weinoo]

I am jealous of the above post.

[SLB]

I.Am.DYING.  

[Mike H]

On 11/23/2021 at 8:35 PM, Chris Hennes said:

Genovese Pizza (Inspired by Pietro Parisi) (KM p. 290)

on

Artisan Pizza Dough (KM p. 54)

 

This is the first time I've made the "Artisan" pizza dough -- for them this style is a sort of catch-all for various cheffy non-Neapolitan, non-New York medium crust pizzas. The dough is 72% hydration, 3.2% fat, poolish-based, high-gluten flour dough with a one day cold proof: it's delicious, and quite easy to work with. I'll keep this one in the rotation.

 

The pizza toppings are basically French Onion soup (or a really fancy cheesesteak!). The "sauce" is browned onions deglazed with brandy, for the (optional) cheese I used Gruyere, and on top of that they call for shredded braised short ribs. I actually made this recipe specifically to use up some oxtail I had in the freezer, so I cooked it sous vide at 140°F for 100 hours (actually only 97, hopefully the 3% reduction didn't have a deleterious effect on the finished product ). It baked for five and a half minutes at 480°F with full convection. Overall it was successful: these toppings are probably not going in the regular rotation (I'm out of oxtail now), but if you're eyeing the recipe in the book and aren't too weirded out by its non-pizza-ness, I suggest giving it a go.

 

 

If it's not too late to comment on this, I just got around to making this pizza this week. Modernist Pizza calls for their Artisan dough, but I was making the pizza in my Ooni Karu 16 oven and went for the Neapolitan dough. Also, I added a little Swiss cheese for more flavor, though it appears I didn't use as much cheese as you had done. I could have used more, I think.
It was quite a long time of prep for the short ribs, that I did the day before, and I was happy with the results, though I'm not sure if I'll be making it again soon. 
Sorry for the blurry photos - cheap phone and no fancy lighting.

[paulraphael]

On 1/4/2023 at 8:41 AM, weinoo said:

 

I think that depends on how much of it you eat 😂 !

 

Deep Dish Pizza – 12 inch (Medium) NUTRITIONS Calories 3482 cal Fiber 21 g Carbohydrates 330 g Protein 183 g […]

This was my idea of heaven when I was a teenager growing up in Chicago. Of course back then, the only thing I wanted from food was MORE.

 

I can't eat this stuff anymore. It doesn't even register as pizza.

[paulraphael]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mike H said:

 

I don't know how you managed to shape the pizzas as well as you did. I had enough trouble at 72% hydration (King Arthur Bread flour) that I won't be tempted to go higher right away. 

 

Yeah, when I got much above 70% in my pizza attempt days, the dough became unmanageable. My kung fu wasn't good enough. Kitchen ended up looking like a kindergarten craft project gone wrong, and there was lots of yelling.

[Robenco15]

Made pizza for lunch this past Saturday. So much fun. 

[Robenco15]

It sucks Mod Pizza doesn’t do anything with Biga. I really prefer Biga over poolish. This was 20% Biga made with Cairnspring Mills Sequoia and then the rest with their Glacier Peaks

 

 

I wanted a pan pizza last minute for tonight’s game (go Birds!) so I’m making Mod Pizza emergency Artisan dough with 1/3 of Central Mills Hi Protein and 2/3 with Cairnspriny Trailblazer flour. I cut the recipe in half to fit my 12” cast iron skillet and seems to be look perfect so far as it proofs. Will send pictures. 

[weinoo]

15 hours ago, Robenco15 said:

It sucks Mod Pizza doesn’t do anything with Biga. I really prefer Biga over poolish.

 

One of the older bread baking books (eG-friendly Amazon.com link) in my collection came from one of my favorite bakeries in San Francisco (this was a pre-hipster bakery).  It was the bakery at the original Il Fornaio Restaurant (sadly closed for a number of years now)...

 

 

Published in 1993 (the restaurant and its adjacent bakery opened in or around 1988), it was the first place I remember learning about biga.

 

To this day, it's still one of the best focaccia recipes I've made. And there are other recipes in the book which are based on the focaccia dough, which is Genovese in this case, as many of the first wave of Italian immigrants settling in the San Francisco Bay Area were from Liguria.

[Kerry Beal]

21 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

One of the older bread baking books (eG-friendly Amazon.com link) in my collection came from one of my favorite bakeries in San Francisco (this was a pre-hipster bakery).  It was the bakery at the original Il Fornaio Restaurant (sadly closed for a number of years now)...

 

 

Published in 1993 (the restaurant and its adjacent bakery opened in or around 1988), it was the first place I remember learning about biga.

 

To this day, it's still one of the best focaccia recipes I've made. And there are other recipes in the book which are based on the focaccia dough, which is Genovese in this case, as many of the first wave of Italian immigrants settling in the San Francisco Bay Area were from Liguria.

I have that book - strangely a bunch of the pages are upside down. 

[Chris Hennes]

I actually hauled the full Volume 3 off the shelf last week to look at the section on deep dish pizzas (I normally just use the kitchen manual), and in looking at the pictures they have, a lot of them fall into the theme of "vegetable medley baked in cheese and crust and topped with tomato sauce". So tonight I had another go at deep dish pizza: this time I used the Modernist crust variant (which adds freeze dried butter and freeze dried cheddar cheese to the crust), and made a purple potato confit and sautéed kale filling. The base cheese was provolone, the first topping cheese was gruyere, and the final topping cheese was pizza cheese.

 

The filling:

 

Pre-baking:

 

Baked:

 

Unmolded:

 

Sliced:

 

And served:

 

It was delicious -- the Modernist crust is very good here.

[Duvel]

9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

pizza cheese

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is pizza cheese ?

[Chris Hennes]

2 hours ago, Duvel said:

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is pizza cheese ?

Preshredded low-moisture mozzarella.

[Robenco15]

Tonight I’m making two pizzas in my oven on my baking steel. 
 

One NY Style cheese pizza with the Mod Pizza recipe adjusted down to 65% hydration. 400g dough ball for a 14” pizza. 
 

The other one is their High Hydration Artisan (84% hydration). I didn’t think the recipe would come together as is so I borrowed their technique from their High Hydration Neapolitan and made a tangzhong using 60g of flour and 240g of water and then using 150g of that mixture, so basically 15%. Then I cut 30g of flour from the recipe and 120g of water from the recipe and proceeded from there. I ended up needing to still use the paddle attachment because kitchenaid mixers aren’t really made to do too well with high hydration dough, but once it comes together with the paddle I switched to the dough hook and it was perfect. Really beautiful and supple ball of dough. 
 

Instead of dividing out and refrigerating (where the dough balls would go completely flat) I left it bulk and put in the refrigerator. At noon I’ll cut off 330g and ball that and proof and allow the rest to continue bulking in the fridge until I want another dough ball for Saturday and then for Sunday. 

[Robenco15]

High Hydration Artisan Dough made with a tangzhong

 

This was tricky to work with, as all high hydrations are. Unfortunately it stuck on launch and I got an amoeba, but I have two more dough balls to get it sorted out. The cornichione was incredible. Pornographic. The crust had a great crisp and then a fluffy interior. The flours were incredible in this. Nutty and complex. Red onion and fennel sausage with mozzarella cheese. This may be my favorite dough I’ve done from Mod Pizza. 
 

NY Style cheese pizza with Central Milling Hi Protein Flour

 

This was at 65% hydration and a dream to work with. Couldn’t tear it if I tried. Love making this style. Was stellar.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Robenco15 (log)

[Robenco15]

Just coming back to say the High Hydration Artisan and the NY Style down to 65% are some of the best doughs in the book. Incredible bakes on my baking steel. Cold proofed for 72 hours and then RT for 5 hours before opening into skins. 

 

NY Style

Edited February 20, 2023 by Robenco15 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

I finally got around to making a couple of "Old Forge" pizzas last week. This is not a style that MC is enamored with, though they give a recipe anyway, calling it "our take" on Old Forge pizza. It's basically the Wonder Bread of pizza: a bland, slightly sweet, overly thick crust. The basic recipe only has a scattering of onions as a topping. Don't get me wrong, I stand by my belief that even bad pizza is still good. But this is sort of bottom of the barrel for a homemade pizza, in my opinion. No reason to make it again...