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Feedback on new 'low entry barrier' bread kit

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52 minutes ago, chromedome said:

LOL Have you ever seen the movie "The Accidental Tourist," with William Hurt and Geena Davis? He's a very uptight travel writer (who actually hates travelling) and she's the free-spirited dog groomer who inexplicably falls in love with him.

 

In one scene she's helping his equally buttoned-up siblings (Kathleen Turner and David Ogden Stiers) put away the groceries, and is confounded to learn that they organize the dry goods alphabetically. She holds up a box of macaroni and asks them if it goes under P for Pasta or M for Macaroni, and is greeted by an uncomfortable and incredulous few moments of silence before Kathleen Turner says pointedly that it's E, for Elbow macaroni. :P

 

Ha, I'll have to watch that again.  I'd say P for pasta, macaroni goes between the linguine and the orecchiette :)

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31 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Ha, I'll have to watch that again.  I'd say P for pasta, macaroni goes between the linguine and the orecchiette :)

Elbows next to ears?  Hmmm.

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Thanks everyone who pitched in with helpful comments and feedback.

We are happy to announce that the LoafNest Kickstarter campaign is now live.

You can see it on this link.

Please back us and help to spread the word to your contacts and social media.

Thanks again!

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An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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Interesting idea.  Personally I would be interested in just buying the liner to fit in a standard dutch oven rather than adding another pot to the collection, but I see you are trying to make a complete package.  

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I was just reading Modernist Bread.  One interesting point they make is that you actually don't really need to preheat the cooking vessel to have excellent bread results.

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1 hour ago, kirk9000 said:

I was just reading Modernist Bread.  One interesting point they make is that you actually don't really need to preheat the cooking vessel to have excellent bread results.

 

Page reference, please.

 

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3 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Page reference, please.

 

Kitchen manual, P. 53. Note at bottom.  There's probably something in the main text too.

 

I'm impressed with myself that I found it!

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1 hour ago, kirk9000 said:

Kitchen manual, P. 53. Note at bottom.  There's probably something in the main text too.

 

I'm impressed with myself that I found it!

 

Thank you, interesting.  Seam side up they said though.

 

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19 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Thank you, interesting.  Seam side up they said though.

 

Good point....I am not very detail oriented and read things too quickly! Thanks for pointing that out.

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9 hours ago, kirk9000 said:

Interesting idea.  Personally I would be interested in just buying the liner to fit in a standard dutch oven rather than adding another pot to the collection, but I see you are trying to make a complete package.  

Nice thought. In fact this was one of the first things we tried. It works reasonably well but not as perfectly as we would like to see in a good product.

The liners themselves are not new.  You can buy them here. It is the same company that makes Silpat mats. We worked with them to make a custom liner for us.

 

But we had three problems that necessitated a custom cast iron pan.

1. The liners are very flexible and just about support their own weight. So they are unable to retain the shape when heavy dough is within them. This is normally not a huge problem for lower hydration dough since the dough can support itself to retain its shape. The use of this liners is in professional bakeries that use ~70% hydration at most. We use 80-90% hydration that makes the dough basically a slurry. Also, we skip the second raise step completely so the dough have even less strength when it goes into the liner. So we needed to support it with a liner with a custom shape until the bread became solid enough.

 

2. The whole idea of using cast iron is to maximize the conductive heat transfer. For a round loaf the bottom area is large enough. But since we wanted to keep a more practical oblong loaf shape, we would use a much smaller contact area at the bottom of the loaf if we did not use a fitted cast iron around it. Now we use the sides as well as bottom for direct heat transfer.

 

3. Cast iron casseroles come in various sizes, shapes and forms. It was impossible to make one liner that will work even with a majority of them.

 

Finally, the liners themselves are quite expensive (as you can see from the Demarle page I linked above). So beautiful cast iron at slightly higher point is quite a value for money. Hope you will like to support our campaign by backing or sharing with your contacts.

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An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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5 hours ago, kirk9000 said:

I was just reading Modernist Bread.  One interesting point they make is that you actually don't really need to preheat the cooking vessel to have excellent bread results.

We tried this but only once since it was a disaster :)

Our hypothesis is that our failure is due to skipping the second raise. So there are no large gas bubbles that can expand further. But may after our Kickstarter campaign we spend some more time with this. It would be great if we can skip the pre-heating step but still get a reliable result. Even more convenient!

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An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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While the book does say you can get satisfactory results using cold cast-iron,  and I know because I have done it,  you will still get better results with it pre-heated. See 3-377. 

“We also tested placing a cold pot with proofed dough directly into a hot oven and found that it worked better than expected, though not as well as a fully preheated pot.”


Edited by Anna N (log)
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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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54 minutes ago, Anna N said:

While the book does say you can get satisfactory results using cold cast-iron,  and I know because I have done it,  you will still get better results with it pre-heated. See 3-377. 

“We also tested placing a cold pot with proofed dough directly into a hot oven and found that it worked better than expected, though not as well as a fully preheated pot.”

 

Good to learn our observations were consistent with yours and that of ModBread.

 

If I may go a bit technical in my thinking here:

To bake a good bread, you need certain amount energy supplied to it with a certain rate (power).

With a cold pan, I can imagine the bread has to spend more time in the pan to get the same amount of energy [the oven is heating both the heavy pan and the bread]. This means a lower power. So anything time-dependent will suffer.

I can imagine oven spring relates is time dependent since you need to gellify the outer layer a bit while the inner gases are still expanding and the dough is not fully hardened.

One can probably improve the time factor by using a very light pan so it is not absorbing the energy. But that would still be inferior since with pre-heated pan you get much more power in the initial minutes on the loaf than your oven alone can provide.

 

 


An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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Hi all,

Thanks for the amazing support. The LoafNest campaign is going on with a steady momentum.

 

I thought I would share the first LoafNest product review from a food-scientist/blogger/baker.

The review answers a lot of questions raised earlier on eGullet and other fora. There is also a comparison side-by-side of a LoafNest and Cast-iron+baking paper method from the same recipe.

You can see it here https://foodcrumbles.com/testing-loafnest-smart-way-bake-beautiful-bread/

Hope you find it informative and possibly convincing to back the project (or spread the word) if you already have not.

-trfl


An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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Hello fellow bakers,

Just wanted to thank everyone on this forum for the wonderful feedback on LoafNest earlier in the year.

We also have a really good news to share.

LoafNest was relaunched on Kickstarter yesterday and we were funded in 3 hours! Thanks for many folks who came originally from this forum to make it happen.

See the new campaign at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/trfl/loafnest?ref=ewu6er

 

 

-trfl

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An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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On 1/9/2018 at 9:35 AM, pastrygirl said:

 

That's all well and good, I'm just the kind of person who will straighten a crooked painting on someone else's wall.  My cookbooks are alphabetical by author and I've been known to alphabetize my spice rack as well.  It would bug me too much to look at because I'd constantly have the urge to line up the handles.  But if it works, and you can convince other people, more power to you!

 

@pastrygirl - more and more, I want to meet you! :D  (Side note:  do you also have an almost reflex-like response to the incorrect usage of "less" vs "fewer", or is that just me?!!) 9_9

 

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I just re-read this thread and decided to see if this is available to me here in Canada.  Amazon.ca does not carry it but Amazon.com does, at $159.00 US.  With shipping and custom costs added were a Canadian to order it from Amazon.com, it would cost about $270 Canadian.  Too rich for me.

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1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

I just re-read this thread and decided to see if this is available to me here in Canada.  Amazon.ca does not carry it but Amazon.com does, at $159.00 US.  With shipping and custom costs added were a Canadian to order it from Amazon.com, it would cost about $270 Canadian.  Too rich for me.

EliseD, you have a fair point about LoafNest being quite expensive. LoafNest is quite a high quality product and we being small, we are yet to achieve economies of scale. That is why we decided to keep the focus on our main markets from Kickstarter campaign: US and EU. That way it is reasonably priced in those markets and includes all duties and shipping.

And the whole import duties thing does not help anyone either.

It is a bit cheaper on our own webshop (https://shop.trfl.nl/usa) but at this moment we do not have a shipping solution that includes Canadian duties and GST. We are working on it though. Will drop a line here via PM when we have something reasonable for our Canadian bakers.

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An enthusiastic food lover and product developer. Early in 2018, we ran a successful Kickstarter campaign for a bread making product LoafNest. I am on eGullet to discuss adventures I have had with LoafNest and share my learning with other bakers.

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5 hours ago, trfl said:

EliseD, you have a fair point about LoafNest being quite expensive. LoafNest is quite a high quality product and we being small, we are yet to achieve economies of scale. That is why we decided to keep the focus on our main markets from Kickstarter campaign: US and EU. That way it is reasonably priced in those markets and includes all duties and shipping.

And the whole import duties thing does not help anyone either.

It is a bit cheaper on our own webshop (https://shop.trfl.nl/usa) but at this moment we do not have a shipping solution that includes Canadian duties and GST. We are working on it though. Will drop a line here via PM when we have something reasonable for our Canadian bakers.

 

Thank you.

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