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Chris Hennes

Modernist Bread: French Lean Bread (MB Contest Topic #1)

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2 minutes ago, Michael-hb said:

 Household oven, stet to 470F, Baking Steel. Water in heated cast iron fry pan for steam. For vent I just cracked open door. kept that way for remaining time.

 

Hmm the goal is to get the steam out - is there still water in your fry pan when it is time to vent the steam out did some of it actual boil?  Goal is to get steam in the oven - and then vent it all out.  You won't want to leave the door open as that will affect the temperature.  One recommendation I found was to preheat a pan with the oven with the pan empty and then toss in a small amount of water or some ice cubes, this will quickly become steam.  It should all boil of quickly since the pot is 470F.

 

The way my steam oven works is there's a spot at the bottom where water is added (from a side tank) and an element is under it - this element heats the water up when steam is desired.  When I turned off steam and was only running on convection that water was not longer boiling.  And since the oven works by convection the heat is coming from the back and not the top or bottom of the oven.  We bake bread nearly daily in our steam oven and have so for 3 years.

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15 minutes ago, Raamo said:

 

Did you have the issue with the french lean bread?  I also measured in grams and had no issues - the dough was a bit sticky so to help in folding I added small amount of flour to coat - but humidity does play some factor in this I bet.  And this is the consistency I'm used to working with for dough from ATK and AB in 5M

 

 No not nearly so much with the French lean bread but like you I added flour to helps shape it properly.

I am accustomed to working with very wet doughs but the last two recipes have given me something very different than what I’m accustomed to.  I dumped the pain de mie out onto the bench and hand kneaded it.   Even after adding flour during the mixing stage I was forced to add even more as I kneaded it to make it even reasonably capable of being shaped and handled.

 

I do know that humidity plays a  role but I can assure you I am living in a very dry atmosphere given that it is below zero outside and my forced air gas furnace is in full operation. xD  Even I am dehydrated. 


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

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1 minute ago, Anna N said:

 No not nearly so much with the French lean bread but like you I added flour to helps shape it properly.

I am accustomed to working with very wet doughs but the last two recipes have given me something very different than what I’m accustomed to.  I dumped the pain de mie out onto the bench and hand kneaded it.   Even after adding flour during the mixing stage I was forced to add even more as I kneaded it to make it even reasonably capable of being shaped and handled.

 

I do know that humidity plays a  role but I can assure you I am living in a very dry atmosphere given that it is below zero outside and my forced air gas furnace is in full operation. xD  Even I am dehydrated. 

 

Grr why don't I have my books yet.  It's well below 0C here as well - but we keep the house humidified.  We are used to very wet dough since that's one of the keys behind AB in 5 mins a day.  Anyway back to the topic - we've found with other high end cookbooks that they sometimes require some adjustment - I was hoping MB would be more precise.  But there will be a Corrections and Clarifications page - alas it doesn't seem to be up yet...  

 

Are we talking about off by a cup or more  - or is this enough to be a factor of flour conditions?  I've made plenty of bread in the past where I had to add more flour then it called for.    What are the recipes pain de mie and _________?

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59 minutes ago, Raamo said:

 

Grr why don't I have my books yet.  It's well below 0C here as well - but we keep the house humidified.  We are used to very wet dough since that's one of the keys behind AB in 5 mins a day.  Anyway back to the topic - we've found with other high end cookbooks that they sometimes require some adjustment - I was hoping MB would be more precise.  But there will be a Corrections and Clarifications page - alas it doesn't seem to be up yet...  

 

Are we talking about off by a cup or more  - or is this enough to be a factor of flour conditions?  I've made plenty of bread in the past where I had to add more flour then it called for.    What are the recipes pain de mie and _________?

 More than half a cup. And I’m not for a minute suggesting that the recipes are at fault. They’re using a very different flour  and probably a very different atmosphere.

 

Don’t think it would be too wise to post recipes. And while I know that ingredient lists cannot usually be copyrighted,  I am loath to risk any infringements. 


Edited by Anna N (log)

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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12 minutes ago, Anna N said:

 More than half a cup. And I’m not for a minute suggesting that the recipes are at fault. They’re using a very different flour  and probably a very different atmosphere.

 

Don’t think it would be too wise to post recipes. And while I know that ingredient lists cannot usually be copyrighted,  I am loath to risk any infringements. 

 

 

I just wanted to know the other recipe you had issues with - I'll have my books on Monday.   I'd never heard of pain de mie but it seems like one I'd want to make myself.  No need to post recipes.

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23 minutes ago, Raamo said:

 

I just wanted to know the other recipe you had issues with - I'll have my books on Monday.   I'd never heard of pain de mie but it seems like one I'd want to make myself.  No need to post recipes.

 Sorry I just misunderstood you.  Pain de mie Is a white sandwich bread made in a pullman pan.  I had to adjust the recipe considerably because it calls for the larger pan and I only had to smaller. 

 I wish your books would arrive so you could enjoy them!   No idea how we Canadians got so lucky. 

 

 Edited to add

 

the other and final recipe that I’ve made and had trouble with is the direct country loaf.  Direct means it just uses yeast and not pre-ferment. It has bread flour, dark rye flour, whole wheat flour and some asorbic acid and the one ingredient I didn’t use because I didn’t have it is the diastic malt.  Was such a sticky dough that I could not begin to handle it without adding much more flour. My final dough weight was 1180 g. 


Edited by Anna N (log)

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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My first attempts at the French Lean Bread. I thought it would be quite similar to the Ken Forkish white bread with poolish recipe, but the results are significantly different. The hydration in the Forkish recipe is slightly higher, but since it calls for all-purpose unbleached flour, it's much more slack than this recipe. The crumb is OK, but not great. It might help if I had the book to guide me with more detailed instructions.

DSC07260.thumb.jpg.56253df6c8afae48a82b3005b496f889.jpgDSC07259.thumb.jpg.2c25d3cc79af42d71f841ec4169f7427.jpg

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I gave the recipe a try today. The poolish was fermented for close to 10h only. Flour was 90% strong wheat and 10% rye flour (type 1050) for a slightly more robust flavour. To accommodate for the rye I upped the hydration to 70%. Bulk ferment w/ folding was done in 5h, proofing after shaping took about 2 h (my house is 26 oC, and 60% humidity - controlled by air con and dehumidifier).

Baked at 250 oC preheated oven in an equally preheated Le Creuset for 25 min, then for 15 min more without ("venting").

The resulting loaf is satisfactory. Decent oven spring, maybe a bit overproofed but definitely correct hydration. Taste is pretty good.

 

Fresh from the oven (please disregard the lousy slashing).

IMG_0268.thumb.JPG.37e04f0b8848408c8c1ede2d8e649767.JPG

 

Crumb shot.

IMG_0280.thumb.JPG.56a33853725b6c781c143d02febb8f17.JPG

 

The second half of the batch made a decent pizza dough.

IMG_0275.thumb.JPG.9288731e1ffa41b12f4412e6cc52fc05.JPG

 

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I made my attempt at the Lean French Bread in a combo cooker today, overall it came out well.    I followed the recipe as close as I could.  For mixing, I went with 6 minutes in a Bosch Compact.  It was somewhat sticky, but I mostly make high hydration whole wheat, so it was not too bad.  I used my proofer for the final proof and used the timing in the chart of 1 1/4   hour at 80 F,  and think it was slightly overproofed.   It sang after came out of the oven, I enjoyed the cracking noise, normally I don't get that with 100% whole wheat, and the flavor was fine for a lean bread with bread flour.  

modernist cuisine.jpg

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:59 AM, Duvel said:

The second half of the batch made a decent pizza dough.

IMG_0275.thumb.JPG.9288731e1ffa41b12f4412e6cc52fc05.JPG

 

 

 

I can't top @Duvel but I too made some of my leftover MB dough into pizza, pizza Margherita, baked on my new DeLonghi...

 

Slice11132017.png

 

 

Best pizza this old thing has made.  I detest fried pan pizza.  Detest I say, Kenji notwithstanding.  I couldn't quite achieve char on the upper crust but I got brown spots, and not a few black ones on the bottom!

 

Brings back primordial post war memories -- my first pizza, the most wonderful slightly underdone pizza on the Seaside boardwalk.  Back when basil did not exist.  Back when one wasn't sure the Neapolitans were friends or foes, the sunken tanker could still be seen off shore,  the arcades featured storm troopers, U-boats, and little yellow men in aeroplanes.  And if history is to be believed not a few of the patrons a few years before had been U-boat crews on R&R.

 

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4 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

... the arcades featured storm troopers ...

Being the father of a four-year old I can assure you they still do. Sure, they now report back to the First Order rather than a German military organization, but rest assure they still would be delighted by your pizza. As would I (and being German is only part of it :D) ...

 

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I'm a late starter, but having returned from a weekend away and with a spare day before I have to go and do more of that 'work' stuff, here we go.  Poolish started:

 

Poolish.png

 

More tomorrow.

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Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

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Well, that was quite entertaining.  My usual bread is essentially the master recipe from Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day with a few tweaks, and I've finally got it in the last month or so exactly where I want it.  The French Lean involves a lot more time but not really much more work; although my results weren't as pretty as some here the end product tastes great and I'll do it again.

 

Here are some progress shots.  First, the obligatory shaggy mass:

 

Shag.png

 

This is actually the second attempt, after I realised after 10 minutes or so I hadn't put the yeast/water mix in originally.  Some reading I did (not in MB) suggested autolysis is done just with flour and water - no yeast, certainly no salt.  Can somebody with the books comment on this vs. the instruction in this recipe to include the yeast?  Or did I misread something?

 

Here's the dough just before the final fold.  Looking good, I thought:

 

Risen.png

 

Slashed and ready for the oven.  Note to self: please remember cast iron lids remain VERY hot for a while after being removed from a 250°C oven (thanks, I'm fine):

 

Slash.png

 

And straight from the oven.  The one on the left was just done on an oven tray with hot water below; the other was in a large cast-iron casserole.  I think the casserole one has a better colour, but next time I need to work out a better way to get the boule into the casserole - this one folded a bit:

 

Out.png

 

And cut.  I'd like more rise and a more open crumb, but the crust is good and it tastes great:

 

Cut.png

 

 

Overall I'm happy, apart from the scorched finger, but there's room for improvement.

 

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Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

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They've got a pretty good chunk of info in the books on the use of the term "autolyse" and how various references use it differently and assert different reasons for it. It's an interesting read. 

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Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
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1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

"Autolyse" grates my nerves used as a noun.  My bread undergoes autolysis.

 

You can’t stop the grammar train.  I’ve tried and have the bruises to show for it. xD

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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Made the poolish overnight - took the ingredients to work today. Baked in the CSO at 450º F on the bread setting. Second loaf I shielded the top with foil - then switched over to convection 425º F for another 10 minutes or so.

 

IMG_7599.thumb.jpg.04d6605b487241da7bb99c4402a6bd2f.jpg

 

First loaf. A little underproofed. 

 

IMG_7597.thumb.jpg.b31849ceda83f347f62b0ff0add80e02.jpg

 

Crumb of first loaf.

 

IMG_7595.thumb.jpg.b8df99aeba6f28bb31e2069b160340e4.jpg

 

I was quite taken by the gelatinization on the surface of the loaf under the influence of steam. 

 

IMG_7592.thumb.jpg.6b13c9ccea9659036c27aeeb8e411615.jpg

 

Second loaf.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

 

IMG_7595.thumb.jpg.b8df99aeba6f28bb31e2069b160340e4.jpg

 

I was quite taken by the gelatinization on the surface of the loaf under the influence of steam. 

 

 

 

 

Kerry, in the oven picture above, what is the dough resting on?  When I bake loaves in the CSO I use a thin sheet of Teflon.

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:23 PM, Raamo said:

How did you do the proof step?   It's listed to be as short as 30 for just that reason.  I find if I do it in my steam oven on proof it doesn't take as long.

 

Forgive me, I only just realized this was a question...as I recall I proofed for an hour and fifteen minutes at room temperature.  The CSO manual suggests steam proofing dough at 100 deg F.  for 30 minutes.

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6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Kerry, in the oven picture above, what is the dough resting on?  When I bake loaves in the CSO I use a thin sheet of Teflon.

Anna gave me an aluminum grill plate from a retired griddler.

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@Kerry Beal 

 

would you provide more details on the CSO bread above ?

 

I do have MBr  and it looks like Ill be using that for a while w MBr

 

Im concerned on the optimal size of loafs in the CSO

 

thanks

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9 hours ago, rotuts said:

@Kerry Beal 

 

would you provide more details on the CSO bread above ?

 

I do have MBr  and it looks like Ill be using that for a while w MBr

 

Im concerned on the optimal size of loafs in the CSO

 

thanks

I split the lean dough into 2 boules. Proof done at room temp under bowls.

 

CSO to bread baking at 450 F, 25 minutes. No preheat. First loaf was kind of dark. Second at 425 under foil after 10 min. After 25 minutes too light - so baked further 6 or 7 minutes at 400 F convection. Might try bread program 425 no foil next.

 

 


Edited by Kerry Beal (log)

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      Add a tablespoon of the filling to the center. Bring the sides together and pinch them to seal and form a ball. Flatten lightly. Dust very lightly with flour.

      Roll the flattened ball again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.

      Dip your fingers in water and moisten the surface of the kulcha very lightly. Sprinkle with a few minced cilantro leaves. Continue until you have made 8 kulchas.

      Place the kulchas on the baking sheet and bake for 5 minutes. Turn on the broiler and broil for an additional 3 minutes or until golden brown.
      Serve hot.


      Ande Ka Paratha
      This is a unique addition to your recipe collection. A mild and flaky bread, it is a small kid’s favorite at our home.
      Makes 8 parathas
      • 2 cups Indian atta flour (whole-wheat flour)
      • 1½ teaspoons table salt
      • 2+2 tablespoons melted butter or clarified butter
      • Water as needed
      • 8 eggs
      In a bowl combine the flour, salt and two tablespoons of clarified butter. Slowly begin to add the water, kneading the flour as you go. Make a dough, kneading for at least 10 minutes. The final dough should be soft and pliable. It should not be sticky or else it will not roll out well.


      Cover the dough with a damp cloth or plastic wrap and let it sit for 30 minutes.

      Roll the dough into a log. Cut into 8 equal portions. Lightly dust the rolling surface with flour.
      Lightly oil or flour your hands. Take one portion and roll into a ball between the palms of your hands. Flatten the ball. Place it on the prepared floured surface. Use a rolling pin to roll it out into a circle about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.
      Now fold the dough over itself.

      Take the folded dough and roll it around itself into a spiral.

      Tuck the end under.

      Do this for all eight dough balls. (This folding and rolling will make the paratha very flaky.)

      Now flatten the spiral and roll again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.


      Heat a griddle on medium heat. Brush it lightly with butter and add the paratha. Cook for about 2 minutes, or until the bottom of the paratha begins to blister. Brush the top lightly with butter and remove from heat. Put the paratha aside on a warm plate.

      Grease the same griddle a bit and break an egg on it. Cook the egg sunny side up. Place the cooked side of the paratha on the egg. Press down gently to break the yolk. Let it cook for a minute. Brush the top of the paratha with butter, flip carefully and cook for another minute or two until the paratha is no longer raw.


      Remove the paratha from the griddle and place on a serving platter. Cover with a paper towel. Continue until all the parathas are cooked.
      Serve hot.

      Indian Bread Stuffed With Spicy Potatoes (Aloo Ka Paratha)
      This filled paratha is a very popular North Indian bread, served traditionally with homemade white butter and Indian pickles of your choice.
      • 2 cups Indian atta flour (whole-wheat flour)
      • 4 tablespoons semolina
      • 1½ teaspoons table salt
      • 2 tablespoons melted clarified butter or butter
      • Water as needed
      • 3 medium potatoes, peeled
      • 2 Serrano green chilies, seeded and finely minced
      • 1 tablespoon cilantro, minced
      • 1 1-inch piece fresh ginger root, grated
      • 1 teaspoon Chaat Masala
      • 4 tablespoons melted clarified butter or butter
      • A few tablespoons flour for dusting
      In a bowl combine the wheat flour, semolina flour, salt and two tablespoons of clarified butter. Slowly begin to add the water, kneading the flour as you go. Make a dough, kneading for at least 10 minutes. The final dough should be soft and pliable. It should not be sticky, or else it will not roll out well.
      Cover the dough with a damp cloth or plastic wrap and let it sit for 30 minutes.
      While the dough is resting, prepare the filling.
      Boil the potatoes in enough water to cover for about 15 minutes. Drain.



      Put the potatoes in a bowl and mash them well with a fork. Add the green chilies, cilantro, ginger root, and chaat masala and mix well. Set this filling aside to cool.
      Roll the dough into a log. Cut into 8 equal portions. Lightly dust the rolling surface with flour.
      Lightly oil or flour your hands. Take one portion and roll into a ball between the palms of your hands. Flatten the ball. Place it on the prepared floured surface. Use a rolling pin to roll it out into a circle about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.
      Lightly brush the surface with the clarified butter. Add a tablespoon of the potato filling to the center. Bring the sides together and pinch them to seal and form a ball. Flatten lightly. Dust very lightly with flour.



      Roll the flattened ball again on a lightly floured surface until about 5 - 6 inches in diameter.


      Heat a griddle on medium heat. Brush it lightly with butter and add the paratha. Cook for about 2 minutes, or until the bottom of the paratha begins to blister. Brush the top lightly with butter and flip over. Cook for 2 minutes.

      Remove the paratha from the griddle and place on a serving platter. Cover with a paper towel. Continue until all the parathas are cooked.

      Sheermal
      A sweet bread, it is one of the few Indian breads that uses yeast. Keep the dough in a warm place to ensure that it rises. You can increase the amount of sugar if you like a sweeter taste.

      • 1 packet dry yeast
      • 1 teaspoon sugar
      • ¼ cup water
      • 1½ cups all-purpose flour
      • ¼ teaspoon salt
      • 2 tablespoons sugar
      • 2 eggs (separate 1 egg and set the yolk aside) beat the whole egg and the white together
      • 2 tablespoons melted clarified butter or butter
      • Extra flour for dusting
      • Pitted cherries/raisins for garnish
      Mix yeast with the sugar and 1/4 cup water. Set aside until frothy, about 5 - 10 minutes.
      Combine the flour, salt and sugar. Add the clarified butter, egg and yeast mixture. Knead until a smooth dough is formed. (You may need more warm water.) Set aside to rise until the dough doubles in size.
      Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Lightly grease a large, heavy baking tray and set aside. Lightly dust the rolling surface and rolling pin with flour.
      Knead the dough again on the floured surface for about 5 minutes. Divide it into 6 equal pieces and cover with a damp towel or plastic wrap.
      Roll each piece into a ball and flatten it with your hands. Using a rolling pin, roll it out into a disc. Continue until you have made 6 discs.
      Beat the reserved egg yolk and brush a little on each sheermal. Place a few cherries on the sheermal for garnish. Place the discs on the baking sheet and bake for 5 minutes.

      Turn on the broiler and broil for an additional 3 minutes, or until golden brown.

      Tandoori Roti
      We wanted to show how the tandoor is used to prepare breads. These pictures are of a special roti or bread, called Tandoori Roti, being prepared in the hot tandoor or clay oven.
      The basic recipe entails preparing a dough of whole-wheat flour. (See the paratha dough prepared earlier.) The flattened rolled out discs are then cooked in the tandoor until the dark spots begin appearing on the surface of the bread.




      Post your questions here -->> Q&A
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