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Baking with Myhrvold's "Modernist Bread: The Art and Science"


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I used to keep it in the frig.

 

I brought it out to use some and feed 

 

for 24 H or so

 

it technically came from a ' SanFrancisco Sour dough starter '

 

and was not native to NE !

 

or so they say ....

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1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

They (of course) suggest a couple possibilities, but their favorite is 55°F on a 24-hour feeding schedule. I'm growing mine on the kitchen counter and it's plenty happy at the roughly 70°F that entails.

Chris,

 How often are you feeding yours at 70°F? That is basically where I am at and I’m not being very successful.  I am currently feeding every 24 hours. I am not seeing any hints that it needs more frequent feedings but I’ve never had any luck with these kinds of things. Thanks. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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On 11/13/2017 at 8:58 AM, Anna N said:

In the event that your levain lets you down, there is a direct method for that bread which is the one I used and got two lovely loaves. 

 

Anna - did you do any of the steps for direct country style bread overnight?  I need to extend a step if I want to bake the bread on t-day morning.

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 No I did not and I seem to remember reading something about not recommending cold ferments for bread using only yeast but I don’t have time to check on that at the moment and I may have missed read it anyway. Without a copy of MB I would’ve had no compunction about throwing it into the refrigerator for a few hours when it was ready for a bulk ferment. xD   But I’m not recommending anything. It’s not my Thanksgiving dinner. xD

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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31 minutes ago, Anna N said:

 No I did not and I seem to remember reading something about not recommending cold ferments for bread using only yeast but I don’t have time to check on that at the moment and I may have missed read it anyway. Without a copy of MB I would’ve had no compunction about throwing it into the refrigerator for a few hours when it was ready for a bulk ferment. xD   But I’m not recommending anything. It’s not my Thanksgiving dinner. xD

 

I have time to test for science!

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2 hours ago, Anna N said:

How often are you feeding yours at 70°F? That is basically where I am at and I’m not being very successful.  I am currently feeding every 24 hours. I am not seeing any hints that it needs more frequent feedings but I’ve never had any luck with these kinds of things. Thanks. 

Every 24 hours, give or take fifteen minutes. What are the actual weights you are using (levain/flour/water) to feed? 

Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

Every 24 hours, give or take fifteen minutes. What are the actual weights you are using (levain/flour/water) to feed? 

100 g levain/200g flour/200g water.  So discarding 75% that is 300 g each day feeding 200 and 200. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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4 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

This is an interesting experiment: that's the same ratio I'm using, just a larger batch. What day are you on now?

Day 7?  Started it on Thursday.  Have a reminder set to feed it at 8 AM each morning and usually keep to that schedule. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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4 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

This is an interesting experiment: that's the same ratio I'm using, just a larger batch. What day are you on now?

Here is a photograph of it tonight just short of 12 hours since it was fed. Its temperature is at 68.5. 

 

0EF8C36A-E4A4-4529-8D43-0870F4599198.thumb.jpeg.8f0dbdf0605ec88305db1526062aeda9.jpeg

 

 It is obviously alive but has barely grown much beyond its original height. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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Oh. I wouldn't worry too much about how much it grows. I think mine might about double in volume over the course of 24 hours, but it's not like it goes crazy. Bubbles look good to me. I'll post a lime-lapse of my starter in a bit, it's almost feeding time here.

Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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6 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Oh. I wouldn't worry too much about how much it grows. I think mine might about double in volume over the course of 24 hours, but it's not like it goes crazy. Bubbles look good to me. I'll post a lime-lapse of my starter in a bit, it's almost feeding time here.

Thank you. I was definitely expecting a considerable increase.  Perhaps when this crazy week is over and I have time I will make an attempt at using it.

Edited by Anna N
Didn’t read far enough so missed that you had already posted photo (log)

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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2EFB2E9B-9027-4071-AE0D-22E69E8E7F17.thumb.jpeg.b7e342565f22cced76f415722596cbcc.jpeg

 

 At feeding time this morning. 

 

29DAD5FE-4CB2-4687-A40C-3D852C77D9B3.thumb.jpeg.9e0d9aa3686e936e44d198390f8192d1.jpeg

 

But you can see there is almost 0 expansion. Is it perhaps reaching peak overnight and then falling back?But you can see there is almost 0 expansion. Is it perhaps reaching peak overnight and then falling back?

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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My 2004 eG Blog

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So I tried the direct country loaf - and I think it's always good to share experiences for others that may want to make this.

 

Here's all the ingredients weighed out - I use 2 scales - one down to 1g and one accurate to .01g.  The yeast and water are in the bowl, the rye and wheat are on the right, the bread flour, vital gluten, acid, and diastatic malt powder are on the left.  (Not pictured is the salt and additional water, I should also mention adding the water while the mixer running and then adding the salt is an option in the book that I think works better.)  

cs-mixing.thumb.jpg.5b0b058769e09ee7179fec627ca129b0.jpg

 

 

Into the mixer - going for a shaggy mass - this one is rougher then the learn dough.

cs-shaggy.thumb.jpg.8c2c453ba76442557651d273e5bd74fc.jpg

 

After we get to medium gluten density it goes into an oiled pan - this is sure denser then the lean bread dough, not nearly as flowing.

cs-readytoferm.thumb.jpg.e7db91d68f5ba1f654de7c5e0e799cca.jpg

 

I did the ferment steps and then into the fridge overnight to proof.

 

Pulled it out this morning and split / shaped / let set out for an hour and then it was nearly ready - bit more proofing time and it pasted the finger test.

 

Here it is in the steam oven nearly done:

cs-baking.thumb.jpg.2802bcddec29d47014ad90c38b43569f.jpg

 

Finished Loaf:

cs-done.thumb.jpg.80ec33667164f38a3c86e336ba74b225.jpg

 

After 3 hours to cool - it's got a nice crumb, good bit of chew - I like this bread.

cs-crumb.thumb.jpg.60d9d412776e47d3c3db34362cc5fd8d.jpg

 

This is going to be one of the two options for T-Day - though I'll bake up 1kg loaf since fresh is the idea!

 

I think next adventure is going to be bagels - I have the Barley Malt on order, being delivered Saturday.

Edited by Raamo
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@Raamo

 

 Thank you for sharing. I think that is the most important function of these forums.

So far this is perhaps my favorite non-sandwich bread from the books. 

 

That is one gorgeous brown crust.

 

 Do you think the bread suffered at all from being in the refrigerator overnight?

 

 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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1 minute ago, Anna N said:

@Raamo

 Do you think the bread suffered at all from being in the refrigerator overnight?

 

Not at all - I was rereading the books and they said commercial yeast does great in the fridge, with no harm.

 

I just made sure I did a 4 point fold and knocked the air down - and then let it proof again.  From reading the book it seemed the proof step was the best to delay, recall the reproof 10x they talk about.

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1 minute ago, Raamo said:

 

Not at all - I was rereading the books and they said commercial yeast does great in the fridge, with no harm.

 

I just made sure I did a 4 point fold and knocked the air down - and then let it proof again.  From reading the book it seemed the proof step was the best to delay, recall the reproof 10x they talk about.

Oh good!  So I obviously misread something somewhere!   That is very good to know when one needs to re-arrange time for whatever reason. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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31 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Oh good!  So I obviously misread something somewhere!   That is very good to know when one needs to re-arrange time for whatever reason. 

 

Because it's only my wife and I we prefer to bake smaller loafs and save the dough in the fridge - I've done the french lean loaf twice, and then 2nd loaf has spent an extra day in the fridge both time - to no ill effect.

 

The 3rd "loaf" was the remains of french lean + Mr Stinky's discard + more flour and dough, it didn't work out.  It was a total wing it attempt - I think it was too wet still - the bread baked up fine but it was far too dense.

 

My wife told me I needed a name for my levain - and it stinks so Mr Stinky has stuck for now.  We'll see if it gets a new name later.

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1 hour ago, Raamo said:

My wife told me I needed a name for my levain - and it stinks so Mr Stinky has stuck for now.  We'll see if it gets a new name later.

George - bread flour levain/Georgina - rye flour levain. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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69F8FD39-542D-4597-93CB-E6C59FBF771E.thumb.jpeg.f5b24bb537e2ade3906a985e62217965.jpeg

 

Loft at last.  This is the sandwich bread baked in the recommended 9 x 4 x 4 pan.  Still no osmotolerant yeast but everything else was exactly as called for.  I measured it and at its highest point it is 5 1/2 inches which is 1 1/2” above the pan rim. 

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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On 2017-11-11 at 10:06 AM, Anna N said:

 Today I plan on really testing the robustness of the recipes. I am going to attempt the white sandwich bread but I have no whole milk, no osmotolerant yeast and not enough bread flour. But I do have shelfstable skim milk, 35% cream, all purpose flour with a protein content of 13.3% and I will make up for the lack osmotolerant using 30% more instant yeast. What can possibly go wrong?  xD

 I just wanted to note that I ran across a mention in Modernist Bread suggesting that one only increase the yeast by 25% if trying to replace osmotolerant yeast. 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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Can anyone comment on the use of dark rye versus light rye flour for the liquid rye Levain?   I have light rye flour on order but it’s going to take some time to arrive. I do understand that with a fine enough sieve you can take the dark rye flour and approximate the light rye flour but I don’t have such a sieve.  Right now I have a very active and happy dark rye levain. It is still young and needs some time to mature. 

 

 I am guessing I will need to adjust the hydration of the final dough if I use this instead of the light rye. There will be a flavour difference of course.  Anything else I should be prepared for? 

 

 

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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 On the theme of “you learn more from your failures than your successes“ or “you can’t win them all”. 

 

A60D3341-A7AF-4031-AED7-CFE0FEA29DCE.thumb.jpeg.18e26291a336a65e85dd1e908c9bda64.jpeg

 

 First attempt at one of the higher hydration breads. This was the pugliese.  There is nothing really complicated about it but it does take some practice to work with such slack doughs. 

Edited to add:

But few breads are abject failures. 

 

BCAB83B9-3927-4AF1-9558-2D00A8FDFA8A.thumb.jpeg.b2a3985c27ac08f5ce551aafad3ff3fc.jpeg

BF7E898A-50FE-4C81-8EF7-21F2E2176EBB.thumb.jpeg.e2ac5c87eb169dda237c2fbb3c9ccf4c.jpeg

 

 

 

Edited by Anna N (log)
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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

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@JoNorvelleWalker 

 

interesting that you bring up Raymond Calvel 

 

two points :

 

what does MBr say about  flour on the finished bread ?

 

flout.jpg.a7ce2d12f27fa7061c4985b0cd9d8ad4.jpg

 

and those tiny cracking bubbles on the crust ?

 

bub.jpg.2f70cb48d58ccf443c5c25c68a65f762.jpg

 

RC had strong opinions on both subjects I recall.

 

and Im not in any way bering critical of the above two loaves

 

or or less  first come scrolling up on this thread

 

nor those who baked them

 

Id gladly enjoy each loaf

 

right now

 

my copy is said to be out for delivery.

 

money-mouth.gif.eedd54809892ec836effb3699a9c3152.gif

Edited by rotuts (log)
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      Place one wide-mouth quart canning jar (or two wide-mouth pint jars) with their lids in a pot of water to cover, place over medium heat and bring the water to a simmer (180 degrees). Remove the pot from the heat and allow jar(s) and lid(s) to remain in the hot water until needed.
      *After the 4 hours are up (crisping the vegetables as described above) pour the vegetables into a large colander and rinse well. The cucumber slices should taste only slightly salty. Return the rinsed vegetables to the bowl, add the mustard seeds and celery seeds and toss well until evenly distributed. Set aside.
      Return the syrup to the microwave, microwave on high for 8 to 10 minutes [or heat the syrup on the stovetop] until an instant read thermometer shows the temperature of the syrup is 190 to 200 degrees.
      Place the vegetables into one wide-mouth quart jar, or in 2 wide-mouth pint
      jars that have been scalded as described above. Pour the syrup over the vegetables, place the lids on the jar or jars, tighten well and place in the refrigerator overnight.
      The following day, turn the jar upside down - then continue to turn every day for 2 weeks. (This is to insure that the pickles are evenly flavored)
      After 2 weeks open the jar and taste. The pickles should be ready to eat.
      Pickles will keep in the refrigerator for 3 to 4 months.
      ( RG2154 )
    • By PedroG
      Utilization of meat leftovers from sous-vide cooking
      Sometimes when you buy a nice cut of meat, your eyes are bigger than your and your beloved's stomach. So what to do with the leftovers?
      In Tyrolia (Austria) they make a "Gröstl", in Solothurn (Switzerland) they make a "Gnusch", in the Seftigenamt (a region in the Swiss canton Berne) they make a "Gmüder", and we (Pedro and SWAMBO) make a varying concoct using ideas from all of the three. We call it "Gröstl", but it is not necessarily a typical Tyrolean Gröstl, and it is different each time, and we usually do not top it with a fried egg as they do in Austria.
      Ingredients

      All your meat leftovers
      Onion (compulsory)
      Any hard vegetable (we prefer celery stalks, or zucchini)
      Any salad (iceberg lettuce or endive/chicory or any other salad leaves, may contain carrot julienne)
      Fried potatoes, or alternatively sweetcorn kernels
      Sherry or wine or bouillon or the gravy you preserved from your last LTLT.cooked meat for simmering (I usually prefer Sherry)
      Eventually some cream (or crème fraîche)
      Salt, pepper, parsley, caraway seeds (typical for Tyrolean Gröstl), paprika, condiment (in Switzerland we use "Aromat" by Knorr, which contains sodium chloride, sodium glutamate, lactose, starch, yeast extract, vegetable fats, onions, spices, E552)'
      vegetable oil (I prefer olive oil)




      Mise en place

      cut your meat in small cubes or slices
      cut the onion(s) not too fine (place the first cut below your tongue to avoid tearing during cutting)
      cut the vegetables about 3-4 mm thick
      cut the salads to pieces smaller than 4 cm, distribute on the cutting board and season deliberately
      cut the potatoes to 1 cm cubes
      place 3 heavy skillets with ample oil on the stove

      Cooking

      in skillet 1, stir-fry the onions, add the hard vegetables still stir-frying, add salad, add sufficient liquid (Sherry or wine or bouillon or gravy) for simmering under a cover until soft. If desired, reduce heat and add some cream at the end.
      in skillet 2, stir-fry the potatoes until soft (in case of sweetcorn kernels, add to skillet 1 after stir-frying and use skillet 2 for skillet 3)
      in skillet 3, as soon as the vegetables and the potatoes are soft, sear the meat in just smoking oil for 30-60 seconds, then add to skillet 1

      Serving
      You may mix the potatoes with the vegetables and meat to make a rather typical Gröstl, or serve the fried potatoes separately; we prefer the latter, as the potatoes stay more crunchy.
      Do not forget to serve a glass of good dry red wine!
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