What Are You Preserving, and How Are You Doing It? (2016–)

[Smithy]

I looked at spring-loaded jar lids to take the place of weights, but users noted that finely shredded items would come up through the spring, so a layer (like a cabbage leaf, or FauxPas' mesh) was still necessary. I have a bit of leaf under the weight in my jar. I didn't save an entire leaf as I should have.

[FauxPas]

To try and explain more clearly, maybe a photo or two will help. I'm afraid I don't have a freshly done jar which would illustrate it even better. 

 

The mesh is cut just slightly larger than the mouth so that it will fit into the jar with a slight bit of bending and will sit on top of the vegetable matter just where the neck widens into the body of the jar, at the shoulder, maybe? Because the mesh is a strong plastic and because it is just that little bit bigger than the neck, it stays in place really nicely.

 

If I was going to cut one out, I'd probably use the canning ring for the jar and cut on the outside edge of that circumference. It's about 9 cm or a scant 4 inches maybe. 

 

I'm not saying this is the only way to do things, I'm just saying it's a method used by a woman here who teaches fermenting and I thought it was fairly elegant. After the mesh is put in place, the MasonTop Picklepipe can be used to release gas. 

 

 

 

Edited to add:  The cheese mesh is a durable, food-safe plastic that can be re-used. It can be cleaned in a dishwasher or by hand. 

 

 

Edited January 26 by FauxPas (log)

[FauxPas]

Here's a better photo, from the local fermenting group's Facebook page, photo by Julie Matthews, who was our class instructor. You can see how the mesh holds the contents in place and under the brine. 

 

 

 

[haresfur]

5 hours ago, FauxPas said:

To try and explain more clearly, maybe a photo or two will help. I'm afraid I don't have a freshly done jar which would illustrate it even better. 

 

The mesh is cut just slightly larger than the mouth so that it will fit into the jar with a slight bit of bending and will sit on top of the vegetable matter just where the neck widens into the body of the jar, at the shoulder, maybe? Because the mesh is a strong plastic and because it is just that little bit bigger than the neck, it stays in place really nicely.

 

If I was going to cut one out, I'd probably use the canning ring for the jar and cut on the outside edge of that circumference. It's about 9 cm or a scant 4 inches maybe. 

 

I'm not saying this is the only way to do things, I'm just saying it's a method used by a woman here who teaches fermenting and I thought it was fairly elegant. After the mesh is put in place, the MasonTop Picklepipe can be used to release gas. 

 

 

 

Edited to add:  The cheese mesh is a durable, food-safe plastic that can be re-used. It can be cleaned in a dishwasher or by hand. 

 

 

 

I think it is a great idea. The weights with my crock are a pain to get in and out and do allow some material past. I have heard of some fermenters using a plastic bag filled with water to hold veg down below the brine surface, which doesn't seem like a good solution either. Wonder if you could tie a nylon string to the centre of the mesh to help pull it out.

[blue_dolphin]

41 minutes ago, haresfur said:

I think it is a great idea. The weights with my crock are a pain to get in and out and do allow some material past.

Ditto that!  I have a set of glass weights which are easy enough to drop in but they have almost straight-sided “knobs” on top that are slippery little SOBs to get hold of to get them out!

[DesertTinker]

1 hour ago, haresfur said:

 

I think it is a great idea. The weights with my crock are a pain to get in and out and do allow some material past. I have heard of some fermenters using a plastic bag filled with water to hold veg down below the brine surface, which doesn't seem like a good solution either. Wonder if you could tie a nylon string to the centre of the mesh to help pull it out.

Double ditto! I just put up two quarts of sauerkraut this afternoon, I made a couple of 9cm rounds from polypropylene dehydrator screen (I had extras), the mesh size is the same as the cheese mat and it’s food grade. It’s so much easier than the glass weights that I have, as noted by @blue_dolphin.

 I only had a couple of “floaters” to catch and dispose of.

[FauxPas]

2 hours ago, DesertTinker said:

Double ditto! I just put up two quarts of sauerkraut this afternoon, I made a couple of 9cm rounds from polypropylene dehydrator screen (I had extras), the mesh size is the same as the cheese mat and it’s food grade. It’s so much easier than the glass weights that I have, as noted by @blue_dolphin.

 I only had a couple of “floaters” to catch and dispose of.

 

I'll tell Julie. She'll be pleased, I'm sure. She's also a cheesemaker so there's a bit of crossover there and makes sense she blended things, ha. 

 

It's so cool that you were able to make use of the dehydrator screen!!! That was smart.   🙂

 

[DesertTinker]

1 hour ago, FauxPas said:

 

I'll tell Julie. She'll be pleased, I'm sure. She's also a cheesemaker so there's a bit of crossover there and makes sense she blended things, ha. 

 

It's so cool that you were able to make use of the dehydrator screen!!! That was smart.   🙂

 

I also cheated and did my cabbage/salt massage with my Kitchenaid 5 qt mixer, two pounds of thinly sliced cabbage with salt just fit in the bowl, and with the dough hook took about 2 or 3 minutes on low speed to be “massaged and juicy”. I just wasn’t feeling the cold and salty massage by hand today.

Edited January 27 by DesertTinker (log)

[OlyveOyl]

@DesertTinker

i also use the Kitchenaid but with the paddle attachment.  I’m currently fermenting sauerkraut using the Chinese water jar method.  I have some large leaves at the very top to help keep the shredded cabbage submerged.

[Smithy]

1 hour ago, OlyveOyl said:

@DesertTinker

i also use the Kitchenaid but with the paddle attachment.  I’m currently fermenting sauerkraut using the Chinese water jar method.  I have some large leaves at the very top to help keep the shredded cabbage submerged.

 

I had to look this up. Is this Chinese water jar (eG-friendly Amazon.com link) similar to what you have? I can't figure out how the water seal works. I'd appreciate photos and an explanation.

[OlyveOyl]

@Smithy

Hi Smithy, hope these photos help. The top section, cap, sits in a trough which you fill with water.  It essentially lets fermenting gases be released but provides an airlock.  The water is replaced as it evaporates.  I’ve put a plastic  bag loosely over it to slow down evaporation but still let gases be released. This is the first batch of sauerkraut in this vessel, it’s at about ten days along or so.  Mine is a smaller version, purchased on temu for about $20. Let me know if I can clarify further.

Edited January 27 by OlyveOyl (log)

[Smithy]

Thanks, @OlyveOyl. I think I understand it now.

[Smithy]

My current batch of kefir, in a pop-top milk jug, has blown its lid twice already today. Pretty funny, but I think it's time to put it into the refrigerator. 🙂

 

[jbates]

Mesh instead of weights, using the KitchenAid, great ideas. Thanks to all of you for posting recently, I now have a few more options for my next ferment.

[Smithy]

Has anyone ever tried pickling spinach stems? I like to use them sometimes for crunch atop a salad, but have never tried to pickle or preserve them. I got lazy today, and just covered them with pickle juice rather than trying to actively ferment them with salt. 

 

The color balance in these two pictures is goofy: the raw stuff on the left was a little greener, and the stuff on the right isn't as vivid, but that has to do with my photographic efforts.

 

 

I'll report back when I have results. If anyone's tried this before, what did you do and how did you like it?

[blue_dolphin]

31 minutes ago, Smithy said:

Has anyone ever tried pickling spinach stems?

I have pickled kale stems per a recipe in Deep Run Roots and loved them, Swiss chard stems per a David Lebovitz recipe that were a little disappointing in that the “rainbow” colors all merged into a pale, muddy pink, though they tasted fine. 

 

Edited to add that I have a notion that I made some kind of pickled stems from a Bryant Terry recipe but I can’t find any proof of that!
 

Edited January 29 by blue_dolphin (log)

[FauxPas]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

Has anyone ever tried pickling spinach stems? I like to use them sometimes for crunch atop a salad, but have never tried to pickle or preserve them. I got lazy today, and just covered them with pickle juice rather than trying to actively ferment them with salt. 

 

 

I've done a quick pickle with garlic scapes, which might be similar. I think I used a recipe similar to this one. 

https://www.runningtothekitchen.com/pickled-garlic-scapes/

 

I didn't really like the end result. I realized that cider vinegar wasn't the flavour I wanted with the scapes. I think when you are pickling, you need to think about what flavours you are going for in that particular batch - how much sweetness, how much heat, how much garlic, salt, other spices, etc. 

 

I hated the scapes with all that sweetness from the cider vinegar, even though I love bread and butter pickles with lots of cider vinegar. It's just that the scapes didn't seem to work well with it. I wanted a cleaner brighter taste and a bit of heat/spice. 

 

Do you have an idea of how you want the end result to taste? Or how you want to use them? Eaten on their own or on burgers/sandwiches or some other purpose? Because that might help guide your selection of pickling spices, etc. 

 

[Smithy]

1 hour ago, FauxPas said:

Do you have an idea of how you want the end result to taste? Or how you want to use them? Eaten on their own or on burgers/sandwiches or some other purpose? Because that might help guide your selection of pickling spices, etc. 

 

Really, I'm thinking along the line of capers, to include in green salads or tuna salads...but even capers have a lot of variety. For instance, I don't like most vinegar preserved capers, and prefer the salt-cured version.

 

I've been saving dill pickle juice since, well, I emptied the jar of pickles. 6 weeks? Longer? Figured this was a good opportunity to use some if it, although it's been going nicely into my tuna salads.

[Smithy]

I'm eating a salad with some of the pickled spinach stems, as well as my first sample of red cabbage kraut from Jan. 24 (11 days old). Both have nice crunch. The kraut is exactly what I'd like it to taste like (of course I'll have to try a lower salt proportion next!) The spinach stems are crunchy but I'm not crazy about the flavor. That's entirely an issue of the pickle juice. What goes well with cucumbers, for dill pickles, may not be what I want for spinach stems. Thinking about it, I rarely put dill pickles in my green salads! Potato salad, however...that's another story.

 

[Smithy]

I got a couple of heads of red cabbage so I could start experimenting with salt levels in making sauerkraut. Pursuant to a conversation with @FauxPas, I opted to use 1.5%, 2.0% and 3.0% by weight. The 3.0% is what I'd done last time. How well will I like it with a lower salt content? She reported a preference for 1.75%, and I'm bracketing. (In truth, the difference for 365g of shredded cabbage was only 4g salt. We're talking small differences here.)

 

Yesterday I mixed up a batch using 3%, my previous number, to see how repeatable it was. I expected it all to fit into a 1-quart jar. It didn't, quite, so I put the excess into a pint jar and topped it off with shredded carrots and 3% by weight salt. Here's yesterday's work:

 

 

That was one head of cabbage. Today was the second. I think this stuff is beautiful!

 

 

One refinement I've come up with is a better way to fill the jar cleanly. I don't have a canning funnel big enough to accommodate that shredded cabbage. Until now I've made a collar / liner for the jar with clear plastic wrap. It was difficult to get out, and messy once it was out. Today I sacrificed part of a flexible cutting board to make a stiffer, more manageable and adjustable funnel.

 

 

Somewhere along the way I got distracted -- I should know better than to try multiple formulas at the same time, rather than finishing one before starting another -- so I *think* I have the 2% vs. 1.5% batches straight, but I'm not sure. At any rate, one batch -- I think the 2% -- all went into a quart jar and the other batch went into two pint jars.

 

 

Somewhere uptopic we've talked about ways to keep the vegetables submerged. Saving a large cabbage leaf to top it all is a start, because that gives something to push on. (FauxPas talked about a stiff cheesemaking screen, and eventually I may go that way.) Then there are the lightweight glass fermenting "weights" that are really pretty darned light. The pickle pipes help hold them down, maybe, but the other day I found a couple of fermenting springs at a thrift store:

 

 

These are designed to put pressure on the contents, and might work better. The pair I found are built for wide-mouth jars, and I happened to be using one for my pint-sized ferments. After I had everything in place, I noticed a strange bulge under that pickle pipe top:

 

 

I'm concerned about how well that will hold up. I replaced the pickle pipe with a standard canning top, but the lid is only on tightly enough to hold the top in place -- not tightly enough to seal.

 

 

 

They're all in secondary containment devices now. Let the fermenting begin!

 

[chromedome]

11 hours ago, Smithy said:

I got a couple of heads of red cabbage so I could start experimenting with salt levels in making sauerkraut. Pursuant to a conversation with @FauxPas, I opted to use 1.5%, 2.0% and 3.0% by weight. The 3.0% is what I'd done last time. How well will I like it with a lower salt content? She reported a preference for 1.75%, and I'm bracketing. (In truth, the difference for 365g of shredded cabbage was only 4g salt. We're talking small differences here.)

 

Yesterday I mixed up a batch using 3%, my previous number, to see how repeatable it was. I expected it all to fit into a 1-quart jar. It didn't, quite, so I put the excess into a pint jar and topped it off with shredded carrots and 3% by weight salt. Here's yesterday's work:

 

 

That was one head of cabbage. Today was the second. I think this stuff is beautiful!

 

 

One refinement I've come up with is a better way to fill the jar cleanly. I don't have a canning funnel big enough to accommodate that shredded cabbage. Until now I've made a collar / liner for the jar with clear plastic wrap. It was difficult to get out, and messy once it was out. Today I sacrificed part of a flexible cutting board to make a stiffer, more manageable and adjustable funnel.

 

 

Somewhere along the way I got distracted -- I should know better than to try multiple formulas at the same time, rather than finishing one before starting another -- so I *think* I have the 2% vs. 1.5% batches straight, but I'm not sure. At any rate, one batch -- I think the 2% -- all went into a quart jar and the other batch went into two pint jars.

 

 

Somewhere uptopic we've talked about ways to keep the vegetables submerged. Saving a large cabbage leaf to top it all is a start, because that gives something to push on. (FauxPas talked about a stiff cheesemaking screen, and eventually I may go that way.) Then there are the lightweight glass fermenting "weights" that are really pretty darned light. The pickle pipes help hold them down, maybe, but the other day I found a couple of fermenting springs at a thrift store:

 

 

These are designed to put pressure on the contents, and might work better. The pair I found are built for wide-mouth jars, and I happened to be using one for my pint-sized ferments. After I had everything in place, I noticed a strange bulge under that pickle pipe top:

 

 

I'm concerned about how well that will hold up. I replaced the pickle pipe with a standard canning top, but the lid is only on tightly enough to hold the top in place -- not tightly enough to seal.

 

 

 

They're all in secondary containment devices now. Let the fermenting begin!

 

Cool stuff. I'll be interested to see how/whether the batches ferment differently, and what you think of the outcome. I've always just used 2%, and like it fine, but learning from others has 0% food cost and 0% labor cost (for me) so I'm all for it.

[Shelby]

14 hours ago, Smithy said:

I got a couple of heads of red cabbage so I could start experimenting with salt levels in making sauerkraut. Pursuant to a conversation with @FauxPas, I opted to use 1.5%, 2.0% and 3.0% by weight. The 3.0% is what I'd done last time. How well will I like it with a lower salt content? She reported a preference for 1.75%, and I'm bracketing. (In truth, the difference for 365g of shredded cabbage was only 4g salt. We're talking small differences here.)

 

Yesterday I mixed up a batch using 3%, my previous number, to see how repeatable it was. I expected it all to fit into a 1-quart jar. It didn't, quite, so I put the excess into a pint jar and topped it off with shredded carrots and 3% by weight salt. Here's yesterday's work:

 

 

That was one head of cabbage. Today was the second. I think this stuff is beautiful!

 

 

One refinement I've come up with is a better way to fill the jar cleanly. I don't have a canning funnel big enough to accommodate that shredded cabbage. Until now I've made a collar / liner for the jar with clear plastic wrap. It was difficult to get out, and messy once it was out. Today I sacrificed part of a flexible cutting board to make a stiffer, more manageable and adjustable funnel.

 

 

Somewhere along the way I got distracted -- I should know better than to try multiple formulas at the same time, rather than finishing one before starting another -- so I *think* I have the 2% vs. 1.5% batches straight, but I'm not sure. At any rate, one batch -- I think the 2% -- all went into a quart jar and the other batch went into two pint jars.

 

 

Somewhere uptopic we've talked about ways to keep the vegetables submerged. Saving a large cabbage leaf to top it all is a start, because that gives something to push on. (FauxPas talked about a stiff cheesemaking screen, and eventually I may go that way.) Then there are the lightweight glass fermenting "weights" that are really pretty darned light. The pickle pipes help hold them down, maybe, but the other day I found a couple of fermenting springs at a thrift store:

 

 

These are designed to put pressure on the contents, and might work better. The pair I found are built for wide-mouth jars, and I happened to be using one for my pint-sized ferments. After I had everything in place, I noticed a strange bulge under that pickle pipe top:

 

 

I'm concerned about how well that will hold up. I replaced the pickle pipe with a standard canning top, but the lid is only on tightly enough to hold the top in place -- not tightly enough to seal.

 

 

 

They're all in secondary containment devices now. Let the fermenting begin!

 

You're inspiring me to try making kraut again.  I made it the first time using the recipe in Deep Run Roots and it was wonderful.  Since then I've tried two more times and it's ended up smelling terrible and off and I've had to toss it.

[Smithy]

17 minutes ago, Shelby said:

You're inspiring me to try making kraut again.  I made it the first time using the recipe in Deep Run Roots and it was wonderful.  Since then I've tried two more times and it's ended up smelling terrible and off and I've had to toss it.

My best friend and I have been discussing spoilage and what causes it. I know we're trying to suppress the spoilage bacteria (in this case with salt) so that the lactobacteria, acetobacteria, and other good bacteria can thrive and change the pH to suit...but what are those spoilage bacteria and why do they take off instead? i'm sure Sandor Katz gets into the nitty gritty of it but I haven't gotten that deeply into the reading.

 

I used to make kraut in larger crocks. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Right now I'm liking the idea of smaller batches. After I get the salt percentage dialed in I'll be able to experiment with different types and combinations of ferments without putting a huge amount of produce and effort into any one project.

[Baron d'Apcher]

Preserving the harbinger of the cusp of late winter and spring. Pickled Long Island Sound herring courtesy Fresh Fish Crew. 
 

Edited February 26 by Baron d'Apcher (log)

[donk79]

1 hour ago, Baron d'Apcher said:

Preserving the harbinger of the cusp of late winter and spring. Pickled Long Island Sound herring courtesy Fresh Fish Crew. 

Beautiful!  Do you have plans for how they will be served?