Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I may be a dull tool, but why are we not using simple methods like David Lebovitz'?     We always have excellent results with no gyrations or chemical additives.   Just wondering...

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I may be a dull tool, but why are we not using simple methods like David Lebovitz'?     We always have excellent results with no gyrations or chemical additives.   Just wondering...

 

What simple method did you have in mind?

 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I use a recipe similar to the link above and a Donvier freezer.   

[JoNorvelleWalker]

23 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I use a recipe similar to the link above and a Donvier freezer.   

 

As may be seen my recipes are not that much different from the vanilla ice cream recipe of David Lebovitz.  However in my opinion Lebovitz uses an inordinate amount of sugar.  Your mileage may vary.  To my taste sucrose much over 10% is unpleasant.

 

I also like a bit more cream, myself; though I can live with his cream/milk ratio.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

At -24C this batch of ice cream has not suffered.  Scoopability right from the freezer is near perfect; and at that temperature the alcohol, while detectable is not objectionable.  Nonetheless, I have a kg of dextrose on the way from modernistpantry.

 

Why thank you, I think I'll have some more.

 

[mgaretz]

I don’t know what that dextrose cost at modernist pantry, but it’s readily available and cheap at home brew supply stores. 

[ElsieD]

I just 

1 hour ago, mgaretz said:

I don’t know what that dextrose cost at modernist pantry, but it’s readily available and cheap at home brew supply stores. 

 

I just checked our home brew supply store and they do not sell dextrose but they do sell liquid glucose by the litre.  Are they interchangeable?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, ElsieD said:

I just 

 

I just checked our home brew supply store and they do not sell dextrose but they do sell liquid glucose by the litre.  Are they interchangeable?

 

Not for ice cream.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, mgaretz said:

I don’t know what that dextrose cost at modernist pantry, but it’s readily available and cheap at home brew supply stores. 

 

$16.99/kg from modernistpantry.  Most of the cost was the other stuff I felt compelled to order.  No home brew supply in walking distance.

 

[jandreas]

23 hours ago, ElsieD said:

I just 

 

I just checked our home brew supply store and they do not sell dextrose but they do sell liquid glucose by the litre.  Are they interchangeable?

Ask them for the DE (Dextrose Equivalent) number of the glucose and then you can figure it out.  In North America, Vitacost is one of the cheaper places to buy Dextrose ($5USD/kg), skim milk powder, inulin, etc.  And their shipping rates are extremely reasonable, everything comes for $10USD.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Thing is, liquid glucose has water.

 

[mgaretz]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:28 AM, ElsieD said:

I just 

 

I just checked our home brew supply store and they do not sell dextrose but they do sell liquid glucose by the litre.  Are they interchangeable?

 Maybe ask them for corn sugar (which is what most of them will call dextrose).  It’s a staple for beer that is bottle carbonated so I’d be very surprised if they really don’t have it. 

[ElsieD]

33 minutes ago, mgaretz said:

 Maybe ask them for corn sugar (which is what most of them will call dextrose).  It’s a staple for beer that is bottle carbonated so I’d be very surprised if they really don’t have it. 

 

I checked again and they do have corn sugar.  Thank you.

[paulraphael]

I've updated some information in this post on sugars in ice cream, including expanding this chart that compares the relevant properties of a bunch of different sugars:

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by paulraphael (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

As suggested by @paulraphael I got myself some dextrose from Modernist Pantry.  I finished the last of my first dextrose batch a couple days ago.

 

The mix:

Cream 600g

Milk 150g

Sucrose 80g

Dextrose 20g

Egg yolks 4 (60g)

Salt pinch

Polysorbate 80 0.13g ('cause that's what came out of the Polysorbate 80 bottle)

 

Final mix weight after cooking 736g.  Homogenized, chilled, and spun as usual.  Blast chilled to -30C.  (How I love to say that.)  Possibly my best ice cream effort yet.  Hard, though scoopable at -18C.  Possibly better to scoop a few degrees warmer.

 

Not sure what I would try differently next time.  Maybe lower the butterfat percentage as an experiment.  But I say if you have the butterfat, go for it.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

OK, another batch.  Two variables:  my new Falk pan that came today, plus I used lower butterfat.

 

The mix:

Cream 500g

Milk 250g

Sucrose 80g

Dextrose 20g

Egg yolks 5

Salt pinch

Polysorbate 80 3 drops.  You weigh it if you want too.

 

Final mix weight after cooking 640g.  Homogenized, chilled, as usual. Clearly the Falk pan reduces better than the Demeyere, for whatever that is worth.  The proof is in the pudding, now blast chilling.  I have to say I tasted the custard prior to chilling and was tempted to call it dinner right there and then.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The switch protector recommended by @DesertTinker works well.

 

[ElsieD]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:42 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Typically I pull my ice cream after no more than 15 minutes in the ICE-100.  

 

 

Why do you pull your ice cream after only 15 minutes?  I let mine go until the machine tells me it's ready (it is a Breville and plays a rune, currently the theme from The Sting).

 

Another question:  yesterday I was rooting around in my baking supplies and found a bag labeled Dextrose (corn sugar).  It had been opened and some of it used but I don't remember what for.  If I were to replace sugar with dextrose in ice cream, two questions come to mind:

 

Is it an equal substitution?

Why do you substitute?

 

I re-read the above chit-chat but it isn't clear to me.

 

Edited to add:  1 kg. Of dextrose is $3.89 Cdn. at my home brew place.

Edited May 14, 2020 by ElsieD (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

4 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

 

Why do you pull your ice cream after only 15 minutes?  I let mine go until the machine tells me it's ready (it is a Breville and plays a rune, currently the theme from The Sting).

 

Another question:  yesterday I was rooting around in my baking supplies and found a bag labeled Dextrose (corn sugar).  It had been opened and some of it used but I don't remember what for.  If I were to replace sugar with dextrose in ice cream, two questions come to mind:

 

Is it an equal substitution?

Why do you substitute?

 

I re-read the above chit-chat but it isn't clear to me.

 

Edited to add:  1 kg. Of dextrose is $3.89 Cdn. at my home brew place.

 

 

I have found, at least with my current Cuisinart ICE-100, that the most important factor in controlling iciness is the time in the machine.  With this type of unit, time in the machine also affects overrun.  Of course one has to use judgment.  If the mixture looks like soup after 15 minutes, clearly something is not right.

 

Dextrose is lower molecular weight than sucrose.  It is also not as sweet..  @paulraphael has a nice writeup on his blog:

https://under-belly.org/sugars-in-ice-cream/

 

There is also a difference in flavor.  Somewhere in this thread I posted a study that showed tasters preferred ice cream with all sucrose when the ice cream was low fat.  At higher butterfat tasters preferred ice cream with some of the sucrose replaced by dextrose.

 

I use dextrose (and sometimes trehalose) to balance sweetness with freezing point depression.  Using all sucrose results in ice cream that is either too hard or too sweet.  Your choice.  But then I don't care for my ice cream as sweet as some might prefer.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Results of this batch were excellent.  Maybe the solids were a little high due to the reduction properties of the new Falk pan.  But I wouldn't tell unless you asked.  I could easily consume the batch in one sitting.

 

After blast freezing the churned mix to -30C I warmed the Vesta freezer to -18C.  Scoopability was perfect.  Now on my second bowl.

 

 

[paulraphael]

Have you tried using skim milk powder instead of reduction? If you get a good brand, it will be low-temperature spray-dried, so basically it will come pre-reduced, but done in a controlled process. You can then choose your cooking time and temperature based just on getting the level of protein denaturing you want. I suspect you'll find the denaturization makes a very small difference—especially in a high-fat, high-solids, high-egg formula. 

 

I'm curious to know what benefits you're seeing from the polysorbate when you've got 4 egg yolks in there. 

 

FWIW, I don't pay any attention to the different flavor profiles of the dominant sugars (sucrose, fructose, dextrose—besides relative sweetness). It's detectable, but I'd really be surprised if anyone would volunteer that they like the taste of 100% sucrose more than, say, 60/40 sucrose+dextrose, if sweetness levels are well balanced. In a food science study, people are probably being fed unflavored, very sweet ice cream, and then being told to choose. The differences are subtle, especially with something cold. Add flavors, and the differences go away.

 

The ratios of sucrose / dextrose / fructose are all over the place when you compare one kind of fruit to another. I think this is a very minor part of why the fruits taste different. When it comes to choosing sugars, I'm interested in getting the sweetness right (which I think should be lower than just about anyone else who publishes recipes) and getting the hardness right (which varies with preference and your chosen serving temperature). 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

Have you tried using skim milk powder instead of reduction? If you get a good brand, it will be low-temperature spray-dried, so basically it will come pre-reduced, but done in a controlled process. You can then choose your cooking time and temperature based just on getting the level of protein denaturing you want. I suspect you'll find the denaturization makes a very small difference—especially in a high-fat, high-solids, high-egg formula. 

 

I'm curious to know what benefits you're seeing from the polysorbate when you've got 4 egg yolks in there. 

 

FWIW, I don't pay any attention to the different flavor profiles of the dominant sugars (sucrose, fructose, dextrose—besides relative sweetness). It's detectable, but I'd really be surprised if anyone would volunteer that they like the taste of 100% sucrose more than, say, 60/40 sucrose+dextrose, if sweetness levels are well balanced. In a food science study, people are probably being fed unflavored, very sweet ice cream, and then being told to choose. The differences are subtle, especially with something cold. Add flavors, and the differences go away.

 

The ratios of sucrose / dextrose / fructose are all over the place when you compare one kind of fruit to another. I think this is a very minor part of why the fruits taste different. When it comes to choosing sugars, I'm interested in getting the sweetness right (which I think should be lower than just about anyone else who publishes recipes) and getting the hardness right (which varies with preference and your chosen serving temperature). 

 

Yes, last month:

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/152508-home-made-ice-cream-2015–/?do=findComment&comment=2242010

 

I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.

 

 

[paulraphael]

11 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Yes, last month:

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/152508-home-made-ice-cream-2015–/?do=findComment&comment=2242010

 

I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.

 

 

 

If I read that right, you used skim milk powder plus reduction. They're both ways of increasing the solids. I'm suggesting you could make life easier and have quite a bit more control of all the variables if you you used milk solids and skipped the reduction entirely.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

10 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

If I read that right, you used skim milk powder plus reduction. They're both ways of increasing the solids. I'm suggesting you could make life easier and have quite a bit more control of all the variables if you you used milk solids and skipped the reduction entirely.

 

Yes, skim milk powder plus reduction.  But not as much reduction.  Further back in the thread Ruben says he switched to adding skim milk powder to the recipe not because the result was better, which he says it is not, but because skim milk powder made the ice cream easier to make at home.

 

With regard to polysorbate 80, it could be my imagination but I think I like the ice cream melting characteristics better.  With this style ice cream I have not found other additives that I have in house beneficial.  (Unlike when making Philadelphia ice cream, which is a different story.)

 

[SeanT]

Hi all,

 

I'm a new member and have enjoyed reading this topic from the beginning.  I love trying new and improved ways to make ice cream and my ultimate goal is to make a home made version of Baskin Robbins chocolate peanut butter ice cream (chocolate ice cream with peanut butter ribbon).  I've nailed vanilla and still tinker with my recipe here and there. So now I've turned to chocolate peanut butter, but in many efforts haven't been able to produce anything I love yet.   If anyone's willing, I'd appreciate any suggestions for a recipe.  Here's what I have in my ice cream making arsenal right now from memory;  Whole milk 3.5%, heavy cream 18%,  eggs of course, valrhona chocolate disks in varying sweetness, valrhona cocoa powder, inulin, lecithin powser, sucrose, dextrose powder, invert sugar, xanthan, guar gum, maltodextrin powder, gelatin. I'm sure there are a few things I'm forgetting but I'm hoping I can come up with a solid recipe with them.