Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

[Synerge]

14 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I would say slower rotation speed is better for ice cream texture.  But if I were looking for even better texture I'd go out and buy a Pacojet.  Unfortunately I can't afford one.

 

 

Actually everything about ice cream is speed. Professional ice creams are done in 6 7 minutes, and they leave the machine almost ready, just a blast freeze and they are done

Ours leave the machine at somewhat "similar" texture and progress, in 30 minutes. If you withdraw it before, it will be quite soft, with clear and visible water spots

While longer it stays in the machine, worse structure and texture it will have. This was actually proven and tested chemically and scientifically

 

The difference between gelato and ice cream, is not the time, but the speed. Ice cream is done at almost double the churning speed as gelato, so it puts a lot of more air into it, but the final machine time is still the same, less than 10 minutes.

The freezer temperature must also be on par with the speed obviously, so its like -40º C, a lot more than all home machines, that can only reach that temperature with enough time and only empty, without any heating source like a mix

For example in your case that you like less air in ice creams, then you will put the dasher speed slower, maybe with a gelato setting that is quite slow, or maybe even a little less, and withdraw it at the same time, so it will have less air but everything will be creamy and frozen as it should

 

Those Pacojets are quite intriguing, but I believe they are more for restaurants, where they can leave the ice cream batchs ready, and then just unfrozen it when they need it and the machine does the rest. Not sure about the price of those machines though

Edited July 1, 2021 by Synerge (log)

[weinoo]

3 hours ago, Synerge said:

And our machines cannot change speed. Unlucky

 

Actually, the Kitchen Aid with the freezer bowl set up that @paulraphael prefers, has variable speeds to spin ice cream.

 

3 hours ago, Synerge said:

USA ice creams have really high overrun, maybe 60 70%.

 

Here you're talking about commercial ice creams, not home made stuff.  The Whynter I have now (probably similar to yours) spins much faster than the Lello Gelato previously in my kitchen (for like 15 years). While I think it makes ice cream at least as good, or better than the Lello, it seems that the ice cream is looser when it's finished. A little more quirky than the Lello, but I suppose the more ice cream made in it, the better it will become.

[David Ross]

13 hours ago, weinoo said:

You know, @David Ross, many of the places we go to which are more informal...often, they'll scoop ice cream using a spoon (or 2) (like for us, soup spoons) and make a quenelle:

 

 

Thanks I knew about the quenelle shape but this is very helpful

[Margaret Pilgrim]

This discussion really brings into focus how different our individual definitions of ice cream are.   How different our goal as well as our equipment.   How difficult to perceive much less solve posters' problems.   Even and especially whether ice cream is being made for immediate service, service after a period of ripening or for storage/stock.

[ccp900]

14 hours ago, Synerge said:

 

Actually, I think that the fat relation with taste goes the other way around. For example in USA they increased a lot fat content as it gave the ice cream a different texture and flavour

One thing is certain, while more fat you have, more creamy is the ice cream. Because fat does not freeze, so you have less water, so less ice problems

Obviously, on the other side, fat is extremely unhealthy, specially if you are planning to eat ice cream on a regular basis. A 10% fat content is a lot more balanced, and it comes out great. You can also go for italy's gelatos that go from 4% to 8% top. In argentina, the gelatos usually go from 7% to 10%. For me, 6% is a little to low, 8% sounds better in all the cases. I try to get values between 8 and 10

 

Chocolate is probably the most difficult ice cream to do, because the main compontent, that is chocolate, is quite complex, and changes everything in the formula. It has fats, sugars, solids. Everything. Also, the quality and type of chocolate change everything aswell

Your finding is interesting, you say that with a smaller POD, the chocolate taste doesn't stand out too much. In the contrary, if you increase sweetness, the flavour is better. That maybe depends on the chocolate you are using. Also have in mind that chocolate itself is really high on fat.

Post your recipe so we can check what is going on. Although I have no experiene in this, maybe others that do like chocolate can say something about it. I can only say that chocolate is really bitter, specially if you go more to pure chocolate. Milk chocolate on the other half, or maybe even white chocolate, completely different taste

i am using 50g of an 85% bar and 30g of cocoa powder with 10% fat.  i kept this constant as well as the brand i used so that they dont add additional variability.

 

this experiment made me understand why jeni said it was her hardest flavor to nail and it took her years to find the formula she was happy with.

 

i underestimated sugar in our formulations. i am also thinking that the extra coldness of the ice cream with lower solids and more dextrose might be a factor.  i am trying to get inulin for another round of testing when we finish all the ice cream i made i made a lot lol. next round will actually be just cocoa powder to remove another variable. i will run a 7 percent fat qnd a 10 percent fat milkfat that is and then 1 with a higher sucrose level and another with a higher dextrose level. this is to confirm the findings. this is my 3rd set of experiments. the 4th set will use inulin to match the solids.

 

 

 

 

 

[ccp900]

13 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

The best chocolate ice cream I've made is Rose levy Beranbaum's.

 

rose also uses a low amounr of chocolate only 44g of dark chocolate rated at 62% and 28g of cocoa powder.

 

she uses 63g of glucose syrup and 94g of sucrose plus the sugar in the dark chocolate so again it means she is using majority sucrose to sweeten. and if my guess as of now is correct that long lingering sweetness carries the chocolate taste as well

[Synerge]

8 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

This discussion really brings into focus how different our individual definitions of ice cream are.   How different our goal as well as our equipment.   How difficult to perceive much less solve posters' problems.   Even and especially whether ice cream is being made for immediate service, service after a period of ripening or for storage/stock.

 

True, we all look for different things in the ice cream. Although I've never heard of anyone saying that gelato is too fluffy or has too much air and wants less. Its understandable in ice cream because it has too much, like 60 70%. Not even talk about supermarket ice creams that have 100% air or more. Is like eating air

 

Serving after churning its almost imposible unless you have a professional machine, it barely comes out, with luck, like a soft ice cream. Of course you can eat that, but its not exactly the best. The consistency and texture is like 50% of the ice cream, the other 50% is the flavor

 

What is different in all of us, is how we percieve tastes. Some will want to increase sweetness when they love sugar, some like Paul hates sweetness and goes to the lower limit, with PODs like 120, that I've never seen any ice cream like that. It probably tastes like a vegan food

Some will want a fluffy ice cream with tons of air, some will search for thick ice cream

Some are fine with normal amount of fruits, average 40%. Some love fruits and want to make most of it, adding up to 70%

 

And that makes it great, because with different tastes, we get different ideas and results, so we can try so many. Pretty much every ice cream shop is different between each other, somehow, even when so many uses commercial bases.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I seldom buy or even then enjoy ice cream shop ice cream.   For me the best is stiff churn followed by an hour or so ripening in the freezer.   Then serve.  I.e., dinner party.  Worry about the leftovers tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

[Synerge]

Today I will try another batch of cream. The normal one

If I get that one to be good, then the others are just modifications of it. Specially vanilla, that is pretty much the same formula with the vanilla, and well, if you want, some eggs

 

Tomorrow I will try Dulce de Leche (Milk Caramel), that is a classic in my country. I made it many times. Hopefully this one gets better. As soon as I get this 2 right, I will start with other flavours

Sometimes is good to buy artisanal ice cream of the same flavour (of the shop you like obviously), so you can compare side by side, and that helps you adjusting what is wrong or what should be changed, as we usually consider the true artisanal gelato as the best example of what it should be. From there you can obviously adapt it to your liking

[Synerge]

1 minute ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I seldom buy or even then enjoy ice cream shop ice cream.   For me the best is stiff churn followed by an hour or so ripening in the freezer.   Then serve.  I.e., dinner party.  Worry about the leftovers tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really? Why is that?

I went to the USA only 1 time, and tried a few artisanal ice cream shops, but I didn't liked them. They were, mm, strange. Too sweet, or maybe too much fat. Maybe they use sweeteners and colorants, not sure.

I found the supermarket industrial ice cream better, and that is quite strange to be honest. At least I thought that your industrial ice cream was quite better and cheaper than the ones we have here

 

But for the artisanal shops, no, it was too strange. And I absolutely love ice cream, even the worst shops seems ok to me. I obviously notice the differences though, but I dont care that much

Maybe its what Paul said that ice cream is way too sweet, although he seems to love bitter things, so not sure if I can trust him on that. I didn't tried that much neither, but I would love to try them again someday

I heard that there are really good ice creams or gelatos in New York, I believe, that won a spot in the top 10 best ice creams of the world, along with Italy, Argentina and Japan

[weinoo]

@David Ross  I had dinner out at a fabulous, newish restaurant in Brooklyn last night. Only two cooks, no dedicated pastry person (who probably couldn't fit into the kitchen if they tried).

 

Here's how the dessert was served...

 

 

I hope that's not a finger indent on the bottom right!!

[David Ross]

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

@David Ross  I had dinner out at a fabulous, newish restaurant in Brooklyn last night. Only two cooks, no dedicated pastry person (who probably couldn't fit into the kitchen if they tried).

 

Here's how the dessert was served...

 

 

I hope that's not a finger indent on the bottom right!!

looks delicious and just the right quenelle shape, now if I can only master pike quenelles......

[Synerge]

9 hours ago, weinoo said:

@David Ross  I had dinner out at a fabulous, newish restaurant in Brooklyn last night. Only two cooks, no dedicated pastry person (who probably couldn't fit into the kitchen if they tried).

 

Here's how the dessert was served...

 

 

I hope that's not a finger indent on the bottom right!!

 

The nail looks particulary delicious

[ccp900]

cooking 2 batches of avocado ice cream. 1 batch only milk and another batch with some heavy cream to see how the taste would change.

 

a bit of a tip which i learned the hard way before. do not cook your base with the avocado. it will turn bitter! 

 

i usually add fruit at the last moment before chirning but for the last batch i thought cooking would stop the browning and i did not know cooking avocados is bad hehe

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by ccp900 (log)

[Synerge]

17 hours ago, ccp900 said:

cooking 2 batches of avocado ice cream. 1 batch only milk and another batch with some heavy cream to see how the taste would change.

 

a bit of a tip which i learned the hard way before. do not cook your base with the avocado. it will turn bitter! 

 

i usually add fruit at the last moment before chirning but for the last batch i thought cooking would stop the browning and i did not know cooking avocados is bad hehe

 

 

 

 

I think that none of the fruits is cooked as it loses its taste

All of them are added after.

Some can be added after the pasteurization, some can be added right before the churning, and some can only be added during the churning

Not sure about dry fruits though, like hazelnuts, chesnuts, etc

[weinoo]

8 hours ago, Synerge said:

I think that none of the fruits is cooked as it loses its taste

Some fruits get more intense and less watery when cooked, which makes them better for ice cream.

 

I did that with my last batch of strawberries.

[weinoo]

 

Back to my old fave; 2 scoops vanilla, Philadelphia-style. And lemon sorbet. Neither of these was fully hardened in the freezer; more like 2 or 3 hours at most.

 

The Whynter machine is much different than my old, beloved, passed on to a friend, Lello Gelato. The Lello, with its smaller bowl and perhaps more efficient freezer, froze stuff faster than the Whynter. And a bit more solidly, at least at the point where I think it's done.  But now I'm leaving the ice cream in the Whynter for at least 10 minutes after it's done spinning on its cold only function; seems to be a little easier to scoop out that way.

 

Both machines, by the way, are a bit of a pain in the ass to fully excise the ice cream from. Which means I spend time over the sink "cleaning" off the dasher!

Edited July 9, 2021 by weinoo (log)

[Margaret Pilgrim]

45 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Both machines, by the way, are a bit of a pain in the ass to fully excise the ice cream fun. Which means I spend time over the sink "cleaning" off the dasher!

If you had a husband you wouldn't have this "problem'.   I just put the dasher on a salad plate and it comes back squeaky clean.   But I'm sure your way works equally well.

[Kerry Beal]

I think it's time I figured out where I have buried my little ice cream machine. I think it might be in Fibber Magee's closet. 

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

I think it's time I figured out where I have buried my little ice cream machine. I think it might be in Fibber Magee's closet. 

 

It's calling you (and mad at the Ooni).

[Kerry Beal]

31 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

It's calling you (and mad at the Ooni).

God knows what else I might find in there

 

[Anna N]

33 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

God knows what else I might find in there

 

Gear up properly before you open that door – – hardhat and steel-toed boots, please. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Kind of like a high school reunion.  Encounters both delightful and not so.

[Kerry Beal]

 

Found it! Now I need to remember how to use it - high proof alcohol I believe goes below the bowl. 

[DesertTinker]

3 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

 

Found it! Now I need to remember how to use it - high proof alcohol I believe goes below the bowl. 

What is the brand on that? Any thoughts on approximate age? Google images failed me. I do recognize the lid on the floor to the right 😂.