The making of my own cookbook

[gfweb]

I think the publishers have done you a favor in declining your book. Its clear that they are all in tough times and from what you've told us about their offers I can't imagine that they'd do any more for you than exactly what is in the contract, and probably  they'd try to chisel on that.  I think you'd end up marketing it yourself mostly and thinking that they screwed you.

 

So why not go ahead as you had planned and self-publish. You might want to get tax/legal advice before actually getting started. Perhaps there would be advantages to incorporating your own imprint for the book...or doing it through the restaurant.

[Honkman]

That's a pretty common starting point for publishers today. They expect a lot from you upfront and it is the job of a good agent to negotiate a better deal. My mother has experienced the same when she published an own (political/historical) book. The publisher can offer you a lot of contacts and good distribution you won't get with self publishing.

I'm just fascinated by this. This comes from a major publisher. Its like they're going bust:

The other item I want to have us both consider up front is funding. Any books that contain high-end art or photography are printed overseas and the production costs are much higher. We have to ask all authors to provide a subvention to offset a portion of the production costs. The subvention amount is based on a cost estimate we ask printers to provide based on trim size, the overall projected book length, and the number of images. I wanted to look at the proposal before I brought this up, but it is something I want you to know about because it is an unfortunate necessity for us in the current economic times.

This is the point where I say - what are you offering me? You tell me I have to promote the book. I already have a designer, indexer, photographer. I've researched printing. Not much left for the publisher except getting the book out there, which again, they say is my responsibility. Its an odd time for this industry.

[gfweb]

I don't know about the whole publisher helping distribution thing. Anymore I only buy books on Amazon. Only bookstores I see are in airports.

 

Could be wrong of course...

[Deryn]

I wish that anything these publishers have asked for was a surprise to me ... but it isn't and I have never even tried to publish a book.

gfron - You don't have a blog do you? Seems several (Deb from Smittenkitchen for instance) bloggers have managed to get cookbooks published merely because they became 'famous' through blogging - and they don't even have restaurants. That blogging may have given them a lot more pull with potentially thousands of ready made book buyers pumped up and lined up before they even began what was still probably an arduous process to publishing their own books. I wonder how much of the same hassles you have had they had to go through and whether they were asked for so many bucks up front in advance of the first copy going out the door.

[gfron1]

I wish that anything these publishers have asked for was a surprise to me ... but it isn't and I have never even tried to publish a book.

gfron - You don't have a blog do you? Seems several (Deb from Smittenkitchen for instance) bloggers have managed to get cookbooks published merely because they became 'famous' through blogging - and they don't even have restaurants. 

That's one of the questions my agent asked early on. Yes, I do have a blog and used to update it regularly, but not so much the past few years. When I told them that I hovered around a thousand facebook friends and few hundred instagram friends, she stopped me and said "If we're not talking in the high thousands its irrelevant and actually a negative to a publisher."

[vogelap]

Stay strong, sir! I will buy your book when it becomes available, and support it via Kickstarter if you decide to go that route. Please include this thread when you announce such things -- I am following it so I don't miss anything! Good luck.

Edited August 14, 2015 by vogelap (log)

[Honkman]

I don't think it is a good idea for an established chef to rely on any kind of blog especially to potentially to publish a cookbook. You would dilute your message and be more recognized as a blogger than as a chef (and I don't think that is a path gfron wants to go). It is obvious that getting a publisher deal is complicated but at the same time I also think that self publishing can be damaging depending what your plans are for the future. If you just want to publish just this one book and you are confident that there will never be a second or third one self publishing is fine but if you consider ever publishing more than just this one self publishing might eliminate/complicate the chances to get a publisher in the future. I think you have to see yourself as a "brand" and consider your future goals (and not just cookbook goals) and how today's decisions might have an impact on your overall goals (one might argue some people could see self publishing as desparate. In addition, self publishing is often associated with low quality products)

 

 

I wish that anything these publishers have asked for was a surprise to me ... but it isn't and I have never even tried to publish a book.

gfron - You don't have a blog do you? Seems several (Deb from Smittenkitchen for instance) bloggers have managed to get cookbooks published merely because they became 'famous' through blogging - and they don't even have restaurants. That blogging may have given them a lot more pull with potentially thousands of ready made book buyers pumped up and lined up before they even began what was still probably an arduous process to publishing their own books. I wonder how much of the same hassles you have had they had to go through and whether they were asked for so many bucks up front in advance of the first copy going out the door.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Honkman (log)

[gfron1]

Honkman, I have thought about the branding impact, and I actually have a different analysis. Publishers are hesitant with this book. So, what if I was able to come back and demonstrate sales of say 3000 copies via self-publishing. It would show them that I can complete the project, have the ability to have decent sales, and show potential for future sales with their support system. Not sure if one perspective is more correct than the other.

[huiray]

 

I'm just fascinated by this. This comes from a major publisher. Its like they're going bust:

The other item I want to have us both consider up front is funding. Any books that contain high-end art or photography are printed overseas and the production costs are much higher. We have to ask all authors to provide a subvention to offset a portion of the production costs. The subvention amount is based on a cost estimate we ask printers to provide based on trim size, the overall projected book length, and the number of images. I wanted to look at the proposal before I brought this up, but it is something I want you to know about because it is an unfortunate necessity for us in the current economic times.

This is the point where I say - what are you offering me? You tell me I have to promote the book. I already have a designer, indexer, photographer. I've researched printing. Not much left for the publisher except getting the book out there, which again, they say is my responsibility. Its an odd time for this industry.

 

 

This is curious. Surely the publisher is not saying that "books that contain high-end art or photography" cannot be printed in the USA (what, no expertise here?), or are they saying that THEIR operations are set up such that said printing is done outside the USA (presumably Europe)?

[heidih]

This brought to mind a recent blog post by Heidi swanson about the printing of her new cookbook in Hong Kong http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/printing-a-cookbook-recipe.html

 

I know I have seen other cookbook authors also talking about their printers being abroad (US based writers)

[huiray]

This brought to mind a recent blog post by Heidi swanson about the printing of her new cookbook in Hong Kong http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/printing-a-cookbook-recipe.html

 

I know I have seen other cookbook authors also talking about their printers being abroad (US based writers)

 

heidih, thanks for that link.  It was very good reading. 

 

Well, I just picked up the cookbooks next to me from the stack sitting there - and the three books in the pile which had beautiful, detailed, nuanced photos were --- all printed in China (one notes that Hong Kong is officially "in China").  The ones with less beautiful, less detailed photos were --- printed in the USA.

Interesting.

 

ETA:  Two of the three books were published by 10 Speed Press in Berkeley, the other by Norton in NY.  Looking at the 10 Speed Press website one indeed sees lots of detailed, high definition photo books...

ETA2: ...And looking for Heidi Swanson's Near & Far cookbook shows it is coming out later this year...from 10 Speed Press.

ETA3: OK, I walked over to my bookshelves and picked up a few other cookbooks --- there IS one with high quality photos, printed in the USA.

Edited August 15, 2015 by huiray (log)

[gfron1]

My understanding is that while they can be printed in the US they are much much cheaper to print in China. But, I've also come to understand through my research that you need to print 3-5K to justify the shipping. If we self-publish and if we only print 1K as I want, then we'll probably do it domestically.

[Anna N]

My understanding is that while they can be printed in the US they are much much cheaper to print in China. But, I've also come to understand through my research that you need to print 3-5K to justify the shipping. If we self-publish and if we only print 1K as I want, then we'll probably do it domestically.

Just an interesting comment. Modernist Cuisine was printed in China.

[Deryn]

I want to thank you as well, heidh, for that link. After reading that particular post, I backtracked a bit ... as far as the post about proposals.Since the author of Far and Near had already produced several other books previously, I am not sure if she went back further than that to talk about the initial stages of wanting to write a cookbook, her thought processes then and her preparations for her 'journey', before she began to write.

I found myself wondering if a cookbook author does, and has to, approach the writing of a cookbook as a 'business venture' as much as a creative venture, from the very beginning - in fact even before one begins to focus on the title or content in anything other than a general sense.

In other words, do most cookbook writers (or any book authors) begin first with a formal business plan, one of the critical elements of which is identify their target market, analyze how they/their particular product (the type and scope of the cookbook they intend to write) will appeal to that market (i.e. identify their niche) and then quantify the niche numbers and forecast sales, projecting today's knowledge about costs, demographics and trends etc. to the time each stage of the project will be completed. Once that academic effort is done (if at all), do (and will) cookbook authors adjust their product to accommodate their intended audience if they do not think that audience contains sufficient numbers who will actually buy the product at a price that would allow for publication (again, all the specific costs of which should essentially be known in advance).

Or are most cookbook authors, particularly those writing a first book, more inclined to lean to their enthusiastic creative side at least initially (as I think most 'artists' might do) - and just plunge into the 'writing' part and then feel their way through the process, perhaps with only a general idea of what will be required (an agent, a publisher, a printer, etc.) along the way but sometimes getting to the end and realizing there was a step that perhaps they missed at the beginning - the business plan.

Gfron - Did you have a formal business plan before you began writing this book? If so, did you revise it as you went along to adjust for new learning, information, trends, opportunities, costs, etc.? And, if so, how did that business plan specifically influence the end product book you have written?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Deryn (log)

[Honkman]

Honkman, I have thought about the branding impact, and I actually have a different analysis. Publishers are hesitant with this book. So, what if I was able to come back and demonstrate sales of say 3000 copies via self-publishing. It would show them that I can complete the project, have the ability to have decent sales, and show potential for future sales with their support system. Not sure if one perspective is more correct than the other.

I agree that you can become very interesting for publishers for a second cookbook if you can show that you can sell a significant number of books through self publishing in a certain amount of time. The question is how confident are you for example that you are able to sell 3000 books in 1-2 years which means you have to sell about 30-60 books a week. And don't forget that there might be a lot of additional work for you if people order it online and you have to ship it etc. I think it is a doable path forward but you have to have some reasonable indication about realistic numbers of books you might be able to sell and be willing to commit significant amount of work in addition to run a restaurant

[gfron1]

That's a really good way of breaking it down. If there is a good initial blip on sales, that weekly number drops to something that seems more realistic to me. 

[Lisa Shock]

At least with a crowdfunding project like Indiegogo or Kickstarter, you would have a good initial blip when you fulfill the backer orders. The trick there is getting PR for the campaign, usual stuff like sending press releases to local papers, but also trying to get larger outlets to talk about it for its uniqueness. Is there any way to get a pre-production run of maybe 50 copies to mail out to reviewers and maybe some 'hail marys' like The Chew?

[gfron1]

I do have the good fortune to have over 20 significant articles written about us over the past few years including some big boys (NYT, WSJ, Sunset, Saveur), so I'll be sure to send them all a copy.

[MattyC]

Sorry if I'm butting in here late - I've read everything (I think), and tried to keep up on things when I could, and I know in the end I'm not really adding much, but I sincerely wish you the best of luck, and will try and buy a copy for sure. This whole process is infuriating - so many undeserving cookbooks get published, and you're having a hard time.

 

I have an old friend, who used to be close at one time, who is putting out a cookbook in I think in Oct. Literally her only 'claim to fame' was that she was recently on a big food contest show - she did terribly, to be honest (getting kicked off halfway through the season, and probably should have gone before that), so it's even more frustrating to me to see just because she failed in front of a country, that she gets to put out an incredibly boring cookbook easy as pie, when there are others who struggle. Stay strong man - also, with the crowdfunding, aren't there a few services that are solely for food related things? I think crowdfooding is one, If I remember right. The apron and knife roll maker from Maine, weft and warp seamster, failed with kickstarter, but was able to fund his new workshop on one of those - just a thought, not sure if you've thought of that, or tried it. Also, my old colleagues publisher is 'page street publishing' based out of salem ma - just a thought, since they handled hers in a time when there is a lot that get turned down, and they seem to do quite a few cookbooks.

 

Hope anything helps, and good luck with all of this.

Edited August 19, 2015 by MattyC (log)

[gfron1]

Sorry if I'm butting in here late - I've read everything (I think), and tried to keep up on things when I could, and I know in the end I'm not really adding much, but I sincerely wish you the best of luck, and will try and buy a copy for sure. This whole process is infuriating - so many undeserving cookbooks get published, and you're having a hard time.

 

I have an old friend, who used to be close at one time, who is putting out a cookbook in I think in Oct. Literally her only 'claim to fame' was that she was recently on a big food contest show - she did terribly, to be honest (getting kicked off halfway through the season, and probably should have gone before that), so it's even more frustrating to me to see just because she failed in front of a country, that she gets to put out an incredibly boring cookbook easy as pie, when there are others who struggle. Stay strong man - also, with the crowdfunding, aren't there a few services that are solely for food related things? I think crowdfooding is one, If I remember right. The apron and knife roll maker from Maine, weft and warp seamster, failed with kickstarter, but was able to fund his new workshop on one of those - just a thought, not sure if you've thought of that, or tried it. Also, my old colleagues publisher is 'page street publishing' based out of salem ma - just a thought, since they handled hers in a time when there is a lot that get turned down, and they seem to do quite a few cookbooks.

 

Hope anything helps, and good luck with all of this.

I appreciate all the comments and ideas. I had never heard of crowdfooding so I'll definitely look into it. Going back to day one of this thread, the only reason that I wanted a publisher was that for me the book was about branding. That's not going to happen, but that's not a big issue, I've done well enough for myself in that area. So fine, I'll focus on making a little money - its not the worst thing in the world. For me, its just important to get these essays and recipes out there for people to enjoy.

[gfweb]

Maybe getting a spot on Eater as "the foraging guy" would brand you better?

 

If you know Kenji Alt, he might be good for advice.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Just an interesting comment. Modernist Cuisine was printed in China.

 

Yes, it was.

 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/150936-modernist-cuisine-page-binding-failure/

 

Perhaps not such a great idea to save on labor costs?

[huiray]

I don't know if the binding failure that MC had could be laid entirely at the door of its being printed "elsewhere" for lower labor costs.  Many variables involved, I imagine.  In any case, the last post on that thread linked to above is something that I learned decades and decades ago and which I *especially* apply to soft-cover books, let alone hard-cover books – except that I do the front-and-back a-few-pages-at-a-time smoothing simultaneously, so the remainder of the "stack" of pages is between my two hands until I get to the center of the book.  The term I learned for the technique was, simply, "breaking in" in the book.

[Anna N]

High quality printing technology not cheap labor was my understanding of the choice of China for the printing. And my reason for even mentioning it! Little cost was spared in the production of these volumes from all accounts. But please let us not derail this topic.

[Smithy]

...For me, its just important to get these essays and recipes out there for people to enjoy.

As someone who's read the essays and recipes in a draft, I very much want to see them get out for more people to enjoy. I think this book deserves to be published.