Cooking burgers sous vide, have some questions

[ChrisTaylor]

When you say 'blender' I'm assuming you mean 'a blend of cuts' rather than 'putting pieces of meat in a blender or food processor'.

 

I usually go for a blend of skirt/flank, short rib and chuck. Roughly equal quantities. If I'm feeling dangerous I might put some marrow in there. Certainly not 1:1:1:1, though ... Also, because you're getting a blend (even if it's just extra fat and chuck) you'll need to work the mix a little with your hands to ensure even distribution of everything. Not so much you end up with sausage meat, though.

 

I think you're cooking them too long. All of the above. No salt. Zip lock bag. One hour. Then report back.

[slkinsey]

My experiments with SV burgers has turned out some of the most flavorful and beefy burgers I've ever had, but I still haven't been able to quitethe texture I want.  Ironically, the best tasting SV burger I've made is the one that suffered from a sausage-like texture, most likely due to holding it too long after salting (although it was within MCAH parameters).

 

I've done plenty of things to make the whole process easier and more convenient.  For example, by forming the burgers, freezing them on a tray and then individually sealing them with beef fat so I have a stash of SV-ready burgers in the chest freezer.  But the deep-frying step, which I think is really the only way to get the 100% necessary crispy Maillardized crust, is a big pain in the butt.  I will continue to experiment with SV burgers, but I still don't think I've had one as good as a double-stacked smashed-style burger.

[Tri2Cook]

I will continue to experiment with SV burgers, but I still don't think I've had one as good as a double-stacked smashed-style burger.

Agreed but I'm generally not a big fan of thick burgers to begin with... though I have met a few exceptions over the years. My gf won't eat a burger if she sees pink inside no matter how you go about explaining that it's okay so I feel like SV would be a waste of effort for her. I still intend to play around with it for myself though.

 

[Kerry Beal]

My solution to that for hubby - who also doesn't like pink -  is to nuke it a few seconds at a time until the pink is gone.  Still stays quite moist as long as you don't over nuke it.

[Tri2Cook]

My solution to that for hubby - who also doesn't like pink -  is to nuke it a few seconds at a time until the pink is gone.  Still stays quite moist as long as you don't over nuke it.

[weedy]

We recently went out to a higher end restaurant where our friends were telling us how good the burger was.

When it came I cut it in half and immediately said "I'll bet it's sous vide"; i was evenly pink, edge to edge)

 

The friend said 'no way', so we asked.

And sure enough, they use a LaFrieda blend, sous vide it, and then a quick sear on a char grill.

 

the point, in part, being that unless you know what to look for, people often don't know they're eating sous vide cooked food at restaurants.

 

 

I also did a 'shoot out' with another friend recently, with the LaFrieda burgers (which are a good start to begin with!), sous vide  and finish with a quick fry in a cast iron skillet, versus done on a charcoal grill.

9 out of 10 people 'judging' preferred the sous vide, and mostly by wide margins.

the only dissenter was the charcoal die-hard who probably wouldn't have voted for the sous vide no matter what, on "principle"

 

the amount of smoke flavour imparted to a burger by a grill is pretty minimal, and easily added by 20 seconds on a grill after it comes out of the bag, if you want that.

OTOH, you'll never get that even perfect cooking on a grill.

 

granted some people LIKE the 'gradient', that's a different texture experience.

me, I want it cooked perfectly ALL the way though; not just the middle 1/4"

[Tri2Cook]

me, I want it cooked perfectly ALL the way though; not just the middle 1/4"

[paulraphael]

I'm experimenting with ways to get the salt into the burger before cooking without wrecking the texture. One idea is to work it into butter (suet should also work), cut the butter into chunks and freeze them, and add along with the beef to the grinder. The idea is 1) add some tasty fat, and 2) sequester the salt from the proteins  until late enough in the cook that it doesn't cause problems.

 

The reason for this added step is that I've found a salt level that I like (0.7%) which is actually a pretty big pile of salt. Maybe rolling a patty around in this and getting it on all sides would be ok, but the suggestions to sprinkle it on top sound unappealing. For thinner burgers I'd just sprinkle. For a big fat one, I wouldn't want so much salt concentrated in one place.

[scubadoo97]

Could you inject a brine into the meat you want to grind and let it sit for a day to let the brine distribute in the meat. I know this will add moisture to the meat but am not talking about a high volume.

[Dave W]

Paul why not pre salt the meat immediately before grinding? If it's minimally handled after grinding before shaping the myosin shouldn't develop too much. And this will give you a very uniform distribution.

[paulraphael]

Paul why not pre salt the meat immediately before grinding? If it's minimally handled after grinding before shaping the myosin shouldn't develop too much. And this will give you a very uniform distribution.

 

This is what I do when cooking conventionally, but people have problems with the salt curing the meat when they do this before cooking s.v..  I think it's because of the longer cooking time, and possibly because of time spent at temperatures that accelerate the process.

[Dave W]

I'll have to buy some beef to test if I think meat cures at a .7% salt level during a SV cook. I understand the science behind this concept but does it really happen in the time it takes to pasteurize 1" patties?

[paulraphael]

I'll have to buy some beef to test if I think meat cures at a .7% salt level during a SV cook. I understand the science behind this concept but does it really happen in the time it takes to pasteurize 1" patties?

In my experience this salt level doesn't give the tough, sausagy texture some people complain about, but it does add a bit more toughness than what I prefer.

[ChrisTaylor]

In my experience this salt level doesn't give the tough, sausagy texture some people complain about, but it does add a bit more toughness than what I prefer.

 

.7%, per weight, is significantly less salt than you would (or should) use in sausage making so this makes sense.

[kostbill]

ChrisTaylor, no, I actually mean that I just put the meat in the food processor and I pulse until I get small pieces.

 

1 hour is safe? About half an inch? Is there a table showing that?

 

Also, is anyone here that does not buy already grind meat? Do you think that perhaps this is the problem?

[ChrisTaylor]

 

ChrisTaylor, no, I actually mean that I just put the meat in the food processor and I pulse until I get small pieces.

 

1 hour is safe? About half an inch? Is there a table showing that?

 

Also, is anyone here that does not buy already grind meat? Do you think that perhaps this is the problem?

 

 

Well, if I cook burgers sous vide--which I don't any more--I don't hold them. Sous vide > chill > straight on grill.

 

Seriously. Ditch the food processor. Ask the butcher, when you buy the meat, the grind it all for you. As in, 'I want this cut, that cut and that cut ... can you mince them for me?' If they can't, well, I doubt your butcher is a monopoly.

[rotuts]

well, a few cents of my own, perhaps dated :

 

I used to get 'Chuck Steaks', I really cant remember what cut from the Chuck they were 

 

it was Sooooooooooo long ago ...

 

and aged them in my refig. for 4 - 6 days.

 

then to the pulse / chill / pulse  with the Cuisinart to make 'ground beef'

 

as long as i got the worst of the 'connective tissue' out

 

they were Devine as burgers.

 

just to give you a time line :

 

well before i became a SV afficionatto  .

 

doubt SV existed then for Us.

 

tasty those burger were.

[kostbill]

Well, if I cook burgers sous vide--which I don't any more--I don't hold them. Sous vide > chill > straight on grill.

 

Seriously. Ditch the food processor. Ask the butcher, when you buy the meat, the grind it all for you. As in, 'I want this cut, that cut and that cut ... can you mince them for me?' If they can't, well, I doubt your butcher is a monopoly.

I only used the food processor once or twice. I now ask my butcher to mince the meat for me.

I will ask him for different cuts next time.

 

So you think that the problem (tough and not juicy) is due to the long time in the SV?

I will try an hour in the SV and report back.

 

 

I also have one more question. I actually have a manual grinder but I don't use it because whenever I try I only get smeared meat.

If I use the grinder to pass the already minced meat through it, will it make it fluffier?

 

Edit: I don't use salt, I do use fish sauce though. I am afraid that when I mix the fish sauce in the minced meat, I overwork it.

Edited January 25, 2015 by kostbill (log)

[Shalmanese]

I also have one more question. I actually have a manual grinder but I don't use it because whenever I try I only get smeared meat.

If I use the grinder to pass the already minced meat through it, will it make it fluffier?

 

Edit: I don't use salt, I do use fish sauce though. I am afraid that when I mix the fish sauce in the minced meat, I overwork it.

Is your meat very cold? Ideally, it should be slightly frozen and stiff but pliable as it goes in. Also, if you want to incorporate fish sauce but not mix it in, toss the cubes of meat in fish sauce before it goes in the grinder.

[kostbill]

Is your meat very cold? Ideally, it should be slightly frozen and stiff but pliable as it goes in. Also, if you want to incorporate fish sauce but not mix it in, toss the cubes of meat in fish sauce before it goes in the grinder.

I tried to do that but failed when there is fat in the meat. For some reason, fat clogs the output tube of the grinder and it cause smearing.

 

What do you think of the method I am thinking about? Pass the already minced meat through the grinder?

[scubadoo97]

I tried to do that but failed when there is fat in the meat. For some reason, fat clogs the output tube of the grinder and it cause smearing.

What do you think of the method I am thinking about? Pass the already minced meat through the grinder?

What condition is the cutting blade in? It's possible to sharpen it or replace it if it's in bad shape

[Dave W]

Yeah that sounds like a grinder problem. Are you sure you're assembling it correctly?

Running mince back through the grinder is a typical technique for sausage making and it probably wouldn't help your product if it's smearing even on the first pass.

[Dave W]

Kostbill if I understand your post right your problem is probably that your grinder has an "output tube" attached. This is a sausage stuffing attachment and pushing mince through one of these with an auger is a typical cause of smear.

Try grinding without the tube into a bowl.

[kostbill]

I don't know if it is possible to sharpen the blade, I will try to see if it possible to replace it.

 

My fault, there is not an output tube, I just don't know how to say it in English. I mean the normal output of my grinder.

 

But, as I was saying, I don't want to pass the meat twice through my grinder. I want to pass the already minced meat from my butcher through my grinder.

I want to do that because when I unpack the minced meat, it is dense and I am thinking that if I pass it through my grinder it will be fluffier.

 

Any ideas?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Something I have done successfully, but I don't do it often...

 

Put the meat from your butcher down on a large cutting board and whack at it with a heavy chef's knife.  If it's not clear, I am serious with the suggestion.