New law in CA requiring cooks to wear gloves

[FrogPrincesse]

A new food safety law became effective this year in California which requires cooks to wear single-use gloves (or use utensils) when handling any "ready-to-eat" ingredients. See this article in the LA Times and also this one about the impact on bartenders. This means that cooks will have to use gloves or utensils to plate dishes, or that sushi chefs will have to handle fish and cooked rice with gloves. It also means that bartenders will need to wear gloves when handling ice and garnishes.

Cooking is a very tactile experience and I can imagine how much frustration this is going to generate for cooks (and bartenders). I will be curious to see how this gets implemented. The article mentions that there may be circumstances under which an exemption is granted ("Restaurants can apply for an exemption by fulfilling strict requirements for training and written guidelines") - hopefully that can help minimize the impact.

[Jaymes]

Gloves on their hands?

Seems to me that some people have way too much time on their hands. And do nothing but sit around and come up with ways to interfere in everyone's life.

Dear Lord, from these arrogant, know-it-all, do-gooder meddlers please deliver me.

.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Jaymes (log)

[FrogPrincesse]

Here are more details about the scope of this new safety law (from this document from the California Restaurant Association):

Foodservice workers must wear disposable gloves or use utensils to handle ready-to-eat foods.

A ready-to-eat is food is in a form that is edible without requiring additional preparation to be safe to eat. These foods include, but are not limited to:

• any food that will not be thoroughly cooked or reheated (165F) before it is served
• any food item that has already been cooked
• prepared fresh fruits and vegetables served raw or cooked
• salads and salad ingredients
• fruit or vegetables for mixed drinks
• garnishes, such as lettuce, parsley, lemon wedges, pickles
• cold meats and sandwiches
• raw sushi fish and sushi rice
• bread, toast, rolls, baked goods.

Edited January 15, 2014 by FrogPrincesse (log)

[Shel_B]

Has anyone ever noticed that the "single use" gloves many people wear are often filthy?

Is there a definition in all the verbiage that describes what single use gloves are, and is it stipulated that the gloves must only be worn once, when serving or preparing a single dish, after which they must be replaced with clean gloves, or can single use gloves be worn to touch and prepare more than just one item or meal?

Example: the local Subway shop has counter personnel that wear such gloves, and they are worn, and worn, and worn through the prep of many sandwiches and also while cleaning the counter, etc.

[FrogPrincesse]

Is there a definition in all the verbiage that describes what single use gloves are, and is it stipulated that the gloves must only be worn once, when serving or preparing a single dish, after which they must be replaced with clean gloves, or can single use gloves be worn to touch and prepare more than just one item or meal?

From the bill:

(b) Whenever gloves are worn, they shall be changed, replaced, or

washed as often as handwashing is required by this part. Single-use

gloves shall not be washed.

© If used, single-use gloves shall be used for only one task,

such as working with ready-to-eat food or with raw food of animal

origin, used for no other purpose, and shall be discarded when

damaged or soiled, or when interruptions in the food handling occur.

Edited January 15, 2014 by FrogPrincesse (log)

[Shel_B]

Thanks, FrogPrincesse ...

[Porthos]

Thank you, FrogPrincess. I have sent links from this thread to the person responsible for Tea With The Queen at the SoCal Renaissance Pleasure Faire and to my wife who works in that kitchen. If I am not mistaken I think New York already has a similar regulation.

[Jaymes]

Yep, stand there at Subway and watch the way the "single use gloves" work in real life. You know... while the regulators are all busy thinking up new regulations and not hovering over to enforce the countless regulations that they've already passed.

In real life, the kids/counterworkers/cooks, etc., keep on the same pair of gloves while they make your sandwich. And the next guy's sandwich. And dig around for more ingredients. And wipe down the counter. And handle money. And talk on the phone. And scratch their nose. And cough. And do the myriad thoughtless things that humans do with their hands.

I'm sorry but the absolute fact is that if people value cleanliness, they'll be clean. They'll keep their workspace and their hands clean. They won't blow their nose or dig around under the sink or make change or talk on the phone and then get right back to work handling food. If they don't care about cleanliness, forcing them to wear gloves that they won't change and don't keep clean ain't gonna make a bit of difference.

[Porthos]

Yep, stand there at Subway and watch the way the "single use gloves" work in real life.

The two Subways I patronize both do the glove thing properly. I watch them very carefully.

[pastrygirl]

We have rules like that here (Seattle). That doesn't mean we follow them!

[Allura]

Are there any studies saying it's safer to use gloves vs bare hands? I would think people would be more inclined to wash their hands when they can feel that they've touched something. I can't wait to clean my hands after touching raw meat, for instance.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

You can always request someone to change their gloves. Though I have done this only twice. Once when someone was slicing meat, and once when I was getting a flu shot and the person had used the gloves to pick stuff off the floor.

The law sounds like a good thing to me.

[Lisa Shock]

Are there any studies saying it's safer to use gloves vs bare hands? I would think people would be more inclined to wash their hands when they can feel that they've touched something. I can't wait to clean my hands after touching raw meat, for instance.

If you look at the studies of hand drying after washing, you'll see that paper towels win over other methods of hand drying in eliminating bacteria while the hand blower type dryer tests show they actually increase the amount of bacteria. This result may seem puzzling at first, since all of the hand washing in these tests was carefully regulated. What people tend to forget is that our skin isn't a sealed surface that can be cleaned and remain clean if nothing else is touched. Nope. We have pores, and these pores have oil, dead skin and bacteria in them -including E. Coli. When you wash then pat dry with a towel, you effectively clean the surface of the skin. But, over time, and with workday pressure being applied to the skin, the bacteria rises to the surface contaminating it again. Hand dryers, with their instructions to rub ones hands vigorously create a situation where the user is pushing bacteria to the skin's surface very quickly and then smearing it around.

Anyway, glove use, when properly implemented, is designed to protect foods from being contaminated by the bacteria on our hands.

IMO, this law fills in gaps in previous laws. It never made sense to me to let barroom staff dip bare hands into 'bar salad' after handling money, dirty dishes, etc. behind a bar while the kitchen crew wears gloves for anything cold.

[FrogPrincesse]

A petition was initiated a few days ago by Josh Miller of the rum & cocktail blog Inu a Kena to exempt bartenders from the disposable gloves law. It has already collected more than 8000 signatures.

[FrogPrincesse]

LA Times article about the glove law. Many chefs including Nancy Silverton (Mozza), Ludovic Lefebvre (Trois Mec), David Lentz (Hungry Cat), and sushi chef Toshiaki Toyoshima, express their discontent.

[Jaymes]

You can always request someone to change their gloves. Though I have done this only twice. Once when someone was slicing meat, and once when I was getting a flu shot and the person had used the gloves to pick stuff off the floor.

The law sounds like a good thing to me.

Yes, of course, you can always request that someone change their gloves. And you can request that they wash their hands after handling money, the telephone, etc.

You can make those requests and sometimes that request goes very well.

But sometimes, a snotty kid gets really huffy about being asked to adjust his or her sanitation procedure.

Like the last time I asked a kid at Subway to please put on gloves. I had been watching him and his hands that were constantly tucking his long hair back behind his ears, and scratching himself in various locations, and talking on the phone, and taking money from the three folks in front of me. And doing absolutely nothing regarding hand sanitizing in-between waiting on these customers and scratching and telling whomever it was on the phone what time the store closed, which was in about ten minutes. I was the last in line.

Finally it was my turn.

Me, as nicely as possible, so as not to rile him, "I thought y'all usually wore gloves here."

"We're out."

"Well, then, would you mind washing your hands before fixing my sandwich? I saw you making change, and you know what they say about money (nervous laugh) heheheh...."

Whereupon he glared at me for a few minutes, then turned his back to me and walked over to the sink, made a BIG show of scrubbing and washing his hands all the way up to his elbows brain-surgeon style, then pulled a couple of paper towels from the dispenser and, turning slightly in order to completely shield his face (but I could see his face in the reflection of the shiny paper towel dispenser), blew his nose into the paper towels and proceeded to dry his hands with them.

All I'm saying is that "you-can-always-ask" thing works great some of the time.

And a lot of the time, it does not.

[scubadoo97]

I'm not too germ phobic but would have walked out after that behavior

[Chelseabun]

I am not sure about this single use glove law. From a UK perspective it doesn't sound like it will have the result that the law makers think it will have. Sometimes law makers pass laws because they want to improve confidence in food hygiene but requiring food handlers to wear gloves might not actually make much (if any difference). Getting food operators to wash their hands is the point regardless of if they are wearing gloves or not.

[Bill Klapp]

Gloves on their hands?

Seems to me that some people have way too much time on their hands. And do nothing but sit around and come up with ways to interfere in everyone's life.

Dear Lord, from these arrogant, know-it-all, do-gooder meddlers please deliver me.

.

+10. When California is having its state pension money stolen by bankstahs, or getting ripped off for billions in energy costs by the former crooks at Enron (rolling blackouts, too, as I recall!), or teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, does anyone in its electorate or government ever look at saving the money wasted on stupid crap like this as a way to balance the budget? They saved an imperiled populace from eating politically incorrect foie gras a while back, but could not seem to do anything about the Bittman bacterial chickens that were attempting to kill people a while back, as I recall...

Edited February 5, 2014 by Bill Klapp (log)

[Chelseabun]

Gloves on their hands?

Seems to me that some people have way too much time on their hands. And do nothing but sit around and come up with ways to interfere in everyone's life.

Dear Lord, from these arrogant, know-it-all, do-gooder meddlers please deliver me.

.

+10. When California is having its state pension money stolen by bankstahs, or getting ripped off for billions in energy costs by the former crooks at Enron (rolling blackouts, too, as I recall!), or teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, does anyone in its electorate or government ever look at saving the money wasted on stupid crap like this as a way to balance the budget? They saved an imperiled populace from eating politically incorrect foie gras a while back, but could not seem to do anything about the Bittman bacterial chickens that were attempting to kill people a while back, as I recall...

Food law generally works in favour of your economy because it means other countries can be confident in your food exports (being produced to a safe standard). In my oppinion one of the best single contributions the U.S. had made to the world was the development of HACCP. Think how many millions if not billions of people have been saved from food poisening and how standardised global food hygiene based on HACCP has boosted food business globally. Consumers need to be confident in the safety of their food. Just look at China and the problems they faced with milk contamination. Your politicians are only doing what they think is in the best interest. The single use glove law might not achievev its objective however.

[Toliver]

How ironic.

The city of Los Angeles passes a law banning plastic grocery bags and the state turns around and replaces them in the landfills with single-use plastic gloves.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

You can always request someone to change their gloves. Though I have done this only twice. Once when someone was slicing meat, and once when I was getting a flu shot and the person had used the gloves to pick stuff off the floor.

The law sounds like a good thing to me.

Yes, of course, you can always request that someone change their gloves. And you can request that they wash their hands after handling money, the telephone, etc.

You can make those requests and sometimes that request goes very well.

But sometimes, a snotty kid gets really huffy about being asked to adjust his or her sanitation procedure.

Like the last time I asked a kid at Subway to please put on gloves. I had been watching him and his hands that were constantly tucking his long hair back behind his ears, and scratching himself in various locations, and talking on the phone, and taking money from the three folks in front of me. And doing absolutely nothing regarding hand sanitizing in-between waiting on these customers and scratching and telling whomever it was on the phone what time the store closed, which was in about ten minutes. I was the last in line.

Finally it was my turn.

Me, as nicely as possible, so as not to rile him, "I thought y'all usually wore gloves here."

"We're out."

"Well, then, would you mind washing your hands before fixing my sandwich? I saw you making change, and you know what they say about money (nervous laugh) heheheh...."

Whereupon he glared at me for a few minutes, then turned his back to me and walked over to the sink, made a BIG show of scrubbing and washing his hands all the way up to his elbows brain-surgeon style, then pulled a couple of paper towels from the dispenser and, turning slightly in order to completely shield his face (but I could see his face in the reflection of the shiny paper towel dispenser), blew his nose into the paper towels and proceeded to dry his hands with them.

All I'm saying is that "you-can-always-ask" thing works great some of the time.

And a lot of the time, it does not.

I am in New Jersey, and the law here is that food employees may not contact exposed ready-to-eat food with their bare hands. And hands must be washed before changing gloves, after touching body parts, after sneezing, etc. There's a handy website to report violations.

In addition, I thought there was a provision that employees must use a fresh pair of gloves when requested by the patron, but after searching for a while I cannot find this. I may have been mistaken, or it might be something local. Or it might be a problem with my search skills.

Years ago, before the era of single use gloves, a local subshop that made great sandwiches had a sign posted by the cash register that the employees could not wash their hands between tasks, as there was no sink in the area where sandwiches were assembled and sold. As good as the food was this rather turned my stomach. I don't know if they are still in business.

Your mileage may vary.

[andiesenji]

In part, this law was in response to the filthy, lazy habits of SOME food workers who were OBSERVED by undercover investigators and independent news reporters performing tasks in a most unsanitary way.

If the industry will not or can not police itself, then it leaves it up to government to pass laws to make it mandatory.

If the people objecting (those who use exemplary hygiene methods) were to see what goes on in some places, they too would be disgusted.

Frankly, I don't know why they are complaining. I've been using gloves for many years - I did so when I was doing some part-time catering and I've always worn gloves in my own kitchen when handling messy stuff because it is a hell of a lot easier to rip off a glove to answer the phone than try to clean up the phone later.

I wear gloves handling raw meat and poultry because a friend - who owns a small bakery/cafe - got a serious infection in one hand last year from a pathogen that the doctor opined got into his hand via a hangnail lesion. The infection was so bad he had to have IV antibiotics and it was touch and go if he would lose the finger. He always used gloves to handle cooked things, ready to serve and when plating but this was just from taking a pork roast from a package, rubbing it with spices and tying it up and putting it into a roasting pan. After which he washed and dried his hands. He woke up the next morning with swelling and pain in the finger. As soon as he saw the doctor, he went to the shop, retrieved the package that held the pork and the pathogen - usually quite innocuous, was identified so they could get him on the correct antibiotic.

In this case, gloves would have protected the chef because proper cooking totally eliminates the pathogen so it would not affect customers.

I wear gloves when mixing meatloaf by hand and I have always worn them when working with bread or pastry dough - because there seems to be a RULE that as soon as I get into a really sticky or buttery dough, the phone will ring and pulling off a glove to answer the phone is much quicker than trying to clean dough off a hand and certainly much easier than chiseling dried dough off a handset.

I buy the Nitrile gloves from Smart & Final, when I am down that way or from Amazon and they are tough, strong and fit perfectly on my rather large hands.

A local independent Mexican restaurant has all its people behind the counter wearing gloves and they change them often. The place is always packed at the customers are of all ethnic groups. The owner says he thinks customers appreciate cleanliness and he makes it a rule that employees have to adhere to his rules - and he has been doing this since the place opened six or seven years ago.

[Chelseabun]

In part, this law was in response to the filthy, lazy habits of SOME food workers who were OBSERVED by undercover investigators and independent news reporters performing tasks in a most unsanitary way.

If the industry will not or can not police itself, then it leaves it up to government to pass laws to make it mandatory.

If the people objecting (those who use exemplary hygiene methods) were to see what goes on in some places, they too would be disgusted.

Frankly, I don't know why they are complaining. I've been using gloves for many years - I did so when I was doing some part-time catering and I've always worn gloves in my own kitchen when handling messy stuff because it is a hell of a lot easier to rip off a glove to answer the phone than try to clean up the phone later.

I wear gloves handling raw meat and poultry because a friend - who owns a small bakery/cafe - got a serious infection in one hand last year from a pathogen that the doctor opined got into his hand via a hangnail lesion. The infection was so bad he had to have IV antibiotics and it was touch and go if he would lose the finger. He always used gloves to handle cooked things, ready to serve and when plating but this was just from taking a pork roast from a package, rubbing it with spices and tying it up and putting it into a roasting pan. After which he washed and dried his hands. He woke up the next morning with swelling and pain in the finger. As soon as he saw the doctor, he went to the shop, retrieved the package that held the pork and the pathogen - usually quite innocuous, was identified so they could get him on the correct antibiotic.

In this case, gloves would have protected the chef because proper cooking totally eliminates the pathogen so it would not affect customers.

I wear gloves when mixing meatloaf by hand and I have always worn them when working with bread or pastry dough - because there seems to be a RULE that as soon as I get into a really sticky or buttery dough, the phone will ring and pulling off a glove to answer the phone is much quicker than trying to clean dough off a hand and certainly much easier than chiseling dried dough off a handset.

I buy the Nitrile gloves from Smart & Final, when I am down that way or from Amazon and they are tough, strong and fit perfectly on my rather large hands.

A local independent Mexican restaurant has all its people behind the counter wearing gloves and they change them often. The place is always packed at the customers are of all ethnic groups. The owner says he thinks customers appreciate cleanliness and he makes it a rule that employees have to adhere to his rules - and he has been doing this since the place opened six or seven years ago.

I think the issue (judging from the above comments) is whether this is necessary legislation and if it is placing a burden on businesses that might already be struggling given the econimic climate? Surely, food handlers wearing gloves still need to wash their hands (with the gloves on or put on a fresh pair of gloves) just the same as someone not wearing gloves? As per my previous post, food hygiene regulation is important with regards to consumer confidence (and is therefore economically important) and for me this legislation may make sense from that perspective (but not necessarily from a food hygiene perspective).

[Jaymes]

Well, I'm as much in favor of good hygiene and good health as anyone.

So I guess we'll see if this turns out to be a great and effective idea.

Or just an ineffective intrusive unenforceable nonsensical nuisance.

.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Jaymes (log)