The state of the market for consumer sous vide equipment

[Dave the Cook]

About once a month, we teach a date-night class on making a steak dinner. It's based around classic steakhouse dishes (creamed spinach, Caesar salad, honking-big Porterhouse, etc.), but we add a few twists. One of those is cooking tenderloin steaks sous-vide and finishing them in a deep fryer. The first few times we did this, it was mildly interesting for our students, but in the last three months or so, we've been getting more and more questions about sous-vide techniques and what's required to get started in it.

It used to be easy to give advice: 1) if you're the do-it-yourself type, get a controller (or build one), a simple slow cooker, and a FoodSaver; 2) if you're not into DIY, buy a Sous Vide Supreme package. (Either suggestion is accompanied by a pitch for eG Forums, of course.) Now it's not so simple. Between Anova, Nomiku, Sansaire, Underground (which is also working on a $900 chamber vacuum), and the Polyscience offerings, there are -- all of a sudden -- lots of choices.

Which makes me wonder what's going to happen in the consumer market. I suppose Sous Vide Supreme can continue to sell their units at premium prices for a while, because it's got a certain appeal for those who like neat counters and simple solutions. Meanwhile, Polyscience can maintain pricing for only so long, based on their reputation in professional circles. It seems unlikely to me, though, that things will stay the way they are, or even that all of these companies will survive. For example, a while back, we were contacted by a startup who asked for advice on how to create a presence in eG Forums. They had a very attractive product -- something like Dork, but with the looks of the Anova. Six months ago, their projected price of 200 euros didn't seem too far out of line, considering its ergonomics and stylish appearance. Then the Anova and Sansaire showed up, and we never heard from those folks again -- most likely because they realized that the market had fallen out from beneath them.

If you could advise SVS or Polyscience -- or any of these companies -- what would you tell them?

[gfweb]

About once a month, we teach a date-night class on making a steak dinner. It's based around classic steakhouse dishes (creamed spinach, Caesar salad, honking-big Porterhouse, etc.), but we add a few twists. One of those is cooking tenderloin steaks sous-vide and finishing them in a deep fryer. The first few times we did this, it was mildly interesting for our students, but in the last three months or so, we've been getting more and more questions about sous-vide techniques and what's required to get started in it.

It used to be easy to give advice: 1) if you're the do-it-yourself type, get a controller (or build one), a simple slow cooker, and a FoodSaver; 2) if you're not into DIY, buy a Sous Vide Supreme package. (Either suggestion is accompanied by a pitch for eG Forums, of course.) Now it's not so simple. Between Anova, Nomiku, Sansaire, Underground (which is also working on a $900 chamber vacuum), and the Polyscience offerings, there are -- all of a sudden -- lots of choices.

Which makes me wonder what's going to happen in the consumer market. I suppose Sous Vide Supreme can continue to sell their units at premium prices for a while, because it's got a certain appeal for those who like neat counters and simple solutions. Meanwhile, Polyscience can maintain pricing for only so long, based on their reputation in professional circles. It seems unlikely to me, though, that things will stay the way they are, or even that all of these companies will survive. For example, a while back, we were contacted by a startup who asked for advice on how to create a presence in eG Forums. They had a very attractive product -- something like Dork, but with the looks of the Anova. Six months ago, their projected price of 200 euros didn't seem too far out of line, considering its ergonomics and stylish appearance. Then the Anova and Sansaire showed up, and we never heard from those folks again -- most likely because they realized that the market had fallen out from beneath them.

If you could advise SVS or Polyscience -- or any of these companies -- what would you tell them?

I'd need a non-disclosure agreement and a consulting contract.

[Martin Fisher]

The SVS remains somewhat unique so I'm not sure that SVS needs to do anything different at this point...well...other than correct the issues with the anodized aluminum components in the Demi...if that hasn't already been addressed!

I'm sure they'll lower their prices when the time comes....as I understand it......the Demi has been on special for $199 in the past.

Polyscience....poor....Polyscience!

What were they thinking when they conceived the DISCOVERY???

The product is wrong in SO many ways!!!

They're definitely diluting their brand with its introduction.

As I mentioned in another thread, it's akin to GM putting the Cadillac name of the Cimarron!

To top it all off, I find it incredibly ironic that it's the color of a lemon!!!

Polyscience definitely needs to rethink the DISCOVERY and develop something that competes directly with the Anova.

It appears that Anova is the product to beat at this juncture.

Edited October 21, 2013 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[Martin Fisher]

Other advice.......

Nomiku: Hire an extremely talented engineer and completely re-engineer your unit. I think keeping the initial general design is fine.

Sansaire: Tool-up big time, shoot for a retail price of $149 (or less) and enter the 'mass' market much the same as SVS has done.

Underground: Improve accuracy and temperature stability....rethink your marketing strategy and put a skirt on that thing!!!!

Anova: Hmmmm....hopefully Anova will continue to make more firmware upgrades that add more features without increasing the price of the unit.

I'd really like to see the timer count up when it's finished counting down.

I find the fact that you can't read the temperature/time from across the room mildly annoying, but it doesn't appear that can be easily remedied.

Edited October 21, 2013 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[dcarch]

For most people, sous vide cooking the way it is done now is too complicated and it involves extra appliances.

There is no reason why a crock pot, or a slow cooker cannot be modified to also be a competent sous vide cooker, and priced under $100.00

dcarch

[Martin Fisher]

Well, yeah, but there are capacity limitations.

An immersion circulator has the advantage of being portable, conveniently storable and easily paired with different size vessels.

Check out this scary potential product........YIKES!.......

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/193384747/aquachef-clarity-sous-vide-cooking-made-simple

It exudes cheapness!

Edited October 21, 2013 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[scubadoo97]

Ahh the Aqua Chef. Looks like they took their same controller off the mini deep fryer they were marketing as the Aqua Chef and stuck it on a clear plastic double boiler. They didn't use kickstarter to develop their first product which obviously tanked so why not use other peoples money to relaunch their new product which is similar to their old product

[pbear]

I've been following the Anova thread, and probably will order one as another arrow in my quiver, but my standing recommendation as of today (to friends who are curious) remains the SVS. It's simple, effective and doesn't take any more space than the containers needed to make circulators work. IMHO, the limiting factor at this point isn't technology, but rather that low temp hasn't captured the popular imagination.

[FranzWagner]

Other advice.......

Anova: Hmmmm....hopefully Anova will continue to make more firmware upgrades that add more features without increasing the price of the unit.

I'd really like to see the timer count up when it's finished counting down.

I agree, "timer count up when it's finished counting down" is available on Addelice swid immersion circulator. This is very convenient. Unfortunately this immersion circulator isn't available for you guys in 110V.

[ChrisZ]

If you could advise SVS or Polyscience -- or any of these companies -- what would you tell them?

I would really like to see a company bundle a serious book on sous vide with their device. I realise that this would affect the price, but I also think it's important to cover the topic thoroughly. The obvious choice would be Douglas Baldwin's book, but there are possibly others- I haven't checked them all out.

I looked at the booklet that comes with the Sunbeam MU4000 and thought it was pretty terrible.

The problem is that understanding sous vide requires an understanding of food safety. If sous vide is not done safely it can be deadly, but if it is done too conservatively then many of the benefits are lost. It's probably a bit much to expect an in-depth booklet to be produced by every manufacturer, so better off to just include something like Douglas' book.

[dcarch]

Sous vide cooking will never be popular for home cooking until:

1. People understand that it has nothing to do with "under pressure" or "under vacuum".

2. It is easier than regular cooking because you never have to check temperature with a thermometer and you can't overcook or under cook.

3. You don't need a vacuum machine.

4. When it comes to food safety, it is no more complicated than regular cooking.

5. It has to be plug & Play in one single unit for under $100 that can be used for regular cooking like a slow cooker.

Just MHO.

dcarch

Edited October 21, 2013 by dcarch (log)

[Martin Fisher]

IMHO, the limiting factor at this point isn't technology, but rather that low temp hasn't captured the popular imagination.

I agree.

[Mjx]

Sous vide cooking will never be popular for home cooking until:

1. People understand that it has nothing to do with "under pressure" or "under vacuum".

2. It is easier than regular cooking because you never have to check temperature with a thermometer and you can't overcook or under cook.

3. You don't need a vacuum machine.

4. When it comes to food safety, it is no more complicated than regular cooking.

5. It has to be plug & Play in one single unit for under $100 that can be used for regular cooking like a slow cooker.

Just MHO.

dcarch

Agreed, when it comes to low temperature cooking in general, but since 'sous vide' does mean 'under vacuum', points 1 and 3 aren't actually correct.

Once enough people realize how versatile a temp-controlled water bath is, I think that they could easily be sold at the same range of pricepoints that you find for microwave ovens.

[Syzygies]

About once a month, we teach a date-night class

Well, there are two essential rules for date-night cooking (those were the days!):

1. The food must come out incredible but appear effortless.
2. It must be possible to interrupt preparations at any point for several hours with no harm to the meal.

The deep fryer flunks both of these rules, unless you mean coming to your class is the date night. But I'll assume otherwise, as date night cooking itself is a very interesting topic.

Sous vide can make for wonderful date night cooking, scoring high on both of these rules. The SVS doesn't exactly look effortless, however. I'm thinking an Anova circulator or similar, stuck in the general-use pasta pot. And, say, a Moroccan tagine that requires no further prep, that can be eaten say in bowls sitting on the edge of the bed.

Now sealing the bag, huh. One needs to sell this like a magician. Just direct attention away from this question, and no one will ever notice.

[rotuts]

SV cooking will doubtfully appeal to those who simply want to put food on their table.

""" There is no reason why a crock pot, or a slow cooker cannot be modified to also be a competent sous vide cooker, and priced under $100.00 ""

I think this is fairly true.

the Aqua Chef is moving in a direction that would take over the SVS lot: there seems to be no circulation etc.

if a third party took the Anova as their model for the heater, and created a fairly priced, insulated, covered container for this item,

sold it at an attractive prices for say 1 - 3 different sizes SV would take off like a rocket.

you might do meals in Zip-lock bags etc

As i mentioned, Ming Tsai on his PBS show did a salmon SV: 20 minutes. didnt really need the SVS nor the vacuum sealer.

the people that come to your class are people that enjoy cooking and have the 'means' to get the

Anova/container/sealer.

Edited October 21, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

PS: Im surprised a company like Breville, that seems to make fairly outstanding products, as Cuisinart did about 30 years ago,

has not come out with a Breville SV system ( yet )

BV seems to have a lot of Cachet, its ads are on all the decent cooking shows, ......

at BB&B they mound the BV stuff up in the center isle.

Test Kitchen liked their 199 juicer, it was piled 8 ft high at my Local.

and they pack their stuff up sort of like Apple does.

nothing to sneeze at.

Edited October 21, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[gfweb]

I bet sv is too small a market for them.

[nickrey]

Breville in Australia (it is an Australian-owned company) has simply rebadged the Sous Vide Supreme for sale. We always pay way more for electrical kitchen equipment that people in the US so price is not really as much of a psychological inhibitor here.

What we are seeing is a variant on the technology adoption lifecycle.

Those people who set up the sous vide forum and started off using this procedure for home use were innovators. Think Nathan Mhyrvold and the evolution of his exploration into sous vide into his tome Modernist Cuisine. This is typically the first 5% who adopt a new technology.

Next come the early adopters, which comprises the next 15% of the population. My suspicion is that we are moving through the latter part of this stage at the moment; indicative of this is the technology being picked up by major producers here in Australia such as Breville and Sunbeam (I still remember friends from America commenting on the number of mobile phones used here in the 90s; we tend to be early adopters).

After this comes the early majority, which is where the technology is accepted and used widely. My suspicion is that we're not quite there yet but all indications are that it will happen in the next few years. This is where the manufacturers start making serious money from the technology.

The technology is penetrating into the market. Think home electric coffee machines and the range from professional espresso through to Nespresso type machines and you have a similar product line.

The sealing issue is made easier by people buying FoodSaver type products to enhance freezer storage life.

Like anything, the more exposed people are to something, the more they will want to explore it. I'm seeing it in my various food groups as more and more are ordering sous vide variants. The clip on the side of the pot circulators seem most popular with these groups.

Edited October 21, 2013 by nickrey (log)

[EMG]

Just the fact that everytime I talk to someone about sous-vide cooking, they don't grsp it the first time. Most people hear about it once and then only remember "the cooking method under boiling water?"

I never once mentionned boiling. I'm always clear about the controlled temp. But for some reason, people think its about boiling your food. Who likes a boiled steak, right?

So it's a hard product to sell until the masses really understand what SV cooking really is.

Edited October 21, 2013 by EMG (log)

[dcarch]

The way SV appliances can be popularized:

1. As I said, under $100.

2. With food prices go up and up, let people know that meat cooked SV at low temperature is 5% cheaper (5% less shrinkage).

3. You can enjoy cheaper cuts of meat.

You can recoup $100 investment in no time.

dcarch

[rotuts]

"" I bet sv is too small a market for them. ""

exactly and

all that nickrey said too.

but remember, it wasn't that long ago that no one (not in the Rest.Bizz ) knew what a Robot-Coupe was.

then there was the Cuisinart.

OK it was a while ago.

[Shelby]

I bet there are quite a few people like me who have never had anything sous vide to eat in their life. Thus, I guess we don't know what we're missing.

[Joe Blowe]

I bet there are quite a few people like me who have never had anything sous vide to eat in their life.

Do you eat in restaurants? If so, then most likely you've had SV (or variant) and were not aware of the fact.

For example: How Sous Vide Went From Haute Cuisine To Casual Dining

[lesliec]

I bet there are quite a few people like me who have never had anything sous vide to eat in their life. Thus, I guess we don't know what we're missing.

Shelby! I'm shocked!! When I wrote about SV Beef Wellington in my foodblog nearly three years ago you said, and I quote:

Your step-by-step instruction may finally get me over being scared to try sous vide cooking. It looks beautiful.

What you been doing with your life, girl?!?

[Mjx]

. . . .

If you could advise SVS or Polyscience -- or any of these companies -- what would you tell them?

Actually, before recommending any specific unit to anyone, I'd want to raise one other point: that is, realistically, how much would you expect to use the system?

The prices will come down as room for competion increases, but the numbers of people who buy them will be affected by both good and bad recommendations, since a lot of people will be wary of investing in something that most of their friends end up selling on e-bay (a bit like all the fondue sets from the 80s that ended up in second-hand shops), which is going to happen to some extent, and will also drive down prices.

Case in point, I've held off on getting this equipment, since at this time I can't see that I'd use it much, except out of a sense of obligation (which could happen, since my boyfriend is wildly enthusiastic about the idea, without being able to specify the reason):

In terms of meat texture, I'm satisfied with the techniques I have at my disposal, I loathe eggs, and my boyfriend seldom bothers with them, and things like custard are not at the top of my list, since my boyfriend hates those, and anything of that sort would be something I'd have to eat in its entirety, leading to needless waist/waste (sorry).

I work from home, so keeping an eye on a braise provides me with much needed breaks.

If I were to get a setup for cooking sous-vide now, at best I'd be mutedly enthusiastic, not exactly fantastic publicity for it; if I wait until I can think of solid reasons I'd want to use it on a regular basis, I'd probably succesfully convince everyone I know that it's at least worth considering.