Vegans, Vegetarians – a pain in the ....

[PSmith]

On the "Customer is not always right" thread the following post from gfweb was made which I can relate to

Yup. I've seen it myself.

Nobody wants a lecture about anything, esp from a crazed vegan.

I did a really bad thing last week. I lied to someone who wanted to invite themselves to a meal we were having in a restaurant with friends. I made up some excuse to put them off - because they were a pain in the arse vegetarian.

We have been out to restaurants with them before and they once demanded to see the kitchen to make sure their veggie fart burger wasn't cooked on the same grill as the meat ones. My other half and I were cringing with embarrassment. They have also had a strop to the server about menus not having enough vegetarian options.

So when they found out we were having a meal with some other friends locally, they dropped big hints that they would like to join us, but I managed to supply enough excuses for them to get the hint that we didn't want them there. Guess I am off their Christmas Card list now. *snigger*

So how obliging are the rest of you carnivores to your veggie friends?

[annabelle]

Not very. For instance, my niece is a vegetarian and is a bossy little snot about it. She's seemingly unaware that others before her have been vegetarian and many of us tried it on for size in college or when we were hippies back in the day. She lectures everyone about her POV, too.

Conversely, my nephew (other side of the family) and his wife and children are vegetarians and are quite charming and I don't mind serving meatless meals to them. I enjoy them myself, just not with a side of lecture.

[Mjx]

On the "Customer is not always right" thread the following post from gfweb was made which I can relate to

Yup. I've seen it myself.

Nobody wants a lecture about anything, esp from a crazed vegan.

I did a really bad thing last week. I lied to someone who wanted to invite themselves to a meal we were having in a restaurant with friends. I made up some excuse to put them off - because they were a pain in the arse vegetarian.

We have been out to restaurants with them before and they once demanded to see the kitchen to make sure their veggie fart burger wasn't cooked on the same grill as the meat ones. My other half and I were cringing with embarrassment. They have also had a strop to the server about menus not having enough vegetarian options.

So when they found out we were having a meal with some other friends locally, they dropped big hints that they would like to join us, but I managed to supply enough excuses for them to get the hint that we didn't want them there. Guess I am off their Christmas Card list now. *snigger*

So how obliging are the rest of you carnivores to your veggie friends?

Frankly, this sounds like a problem of people feeling entitled to foist their beliefs on others/be pests, not something specific to vegetarians or vegans.

Of the vegetarians and vegans I know, roughly the same percentage of them is as annoying about their food preferences as the rest of the people I know; I simply avoid dining with people who are irritating about food, whether they are vegetarian/vegan or not.

For whatever it's worth, my experience is that the long-term adherents of any sort of food-related restriction (I'm talking about 25+ years, like my immediate family, all of whom are vegetarian apart from me) tend to not talk about their 'thing', it's just a part of their life, they don't need to bang on about it. At restaurants they'll ask what sort of stock forms the base of a soup, perhaps, but they don't make a big production of it, just make their choices accordingly.

[Jaymes]

Yup. I've seen it myself.

Nobody wants a lecture about anything, esp from a crazed vegan.

I did a really bad thing last week. I lied to someone who wanted to invite themselves to a meal we were having in a restaurant with friends. I made up some excuse to put them off - because they were a pain in the arse vegetarian.

We have been out to restaurants with them before and they once demanded to see the kitchen to make sure their veggie fart burger wasn't cooked on the same grill as the meat ones. My other half and I were cringing with embarrassment. They have also had a strop to the server about menus not having enough vegetarian options.

So when they found out we were having a meal with some other friends locally, they dropped big hints that they would like to join us, but I managed to supply enough excuses for them to get the hint that we didn't want them there. Guess I am off their Christmas Card list now. *snigger*

So how obliging are the rest of you carnivores to your veggie friends?

Frankly, this sounds like a problem of people feeling entitled to foist their beliefs on others/be pests, not something specific to vegetarians or vegans.

Of the vegetarians and vegans I know, roughly the same percentage of them is as annoying about their food preferences as the rest of the people I know; I simply avoid dining with people who are irritating about food, whether they are vegetarian/vegan or not.

. . . At restaurants they'll ask what sort of stock forms the base of a soup, perhaps, but they don't make a big production of it, just make their choices accordingly.

I think you're right about this.

I have friends acquaintances whose only goal in dining out, I think, is to prove their superior foodie knowledge to everyone within earshot. They ask unnecessary, pointed questions (and in a loud voice) of the waiter - such as "I was in England a few months back and I know that by law true Stilton can only be produced in Derbyshire, Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire. Do you know the provenance of this Stilton cheese listed on your menu?"

And boy you should have heard the lecture they recently gave the owner/chef/manager of a local Italian restaurant. He makes his own limoncello, and is very proud of it.

So my experts in all-things-consumable gave him a huge lecture about how he shouldn't even think of making limoncello without the perfect lemons, from the "sunny coast of Amalfi." I was mortified.

I hate going out to eat with them, and do just about anything to avoid it.

[rotuts]

it has little to do with them being 'veggie' , everything to do with them being 'friends'

i have friends that are veggie, and they would be fine at a 'combo' restaurant that offered good things from both worlds.

they don't preach and neither do I. they would be uncomfortable Peter Luger's

http://www.peterluger.com/

so I woudn't invite them to that type of place.

Edited June 28, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[PSmith]

I have friends acquaintances whose only goal in dining out, I think, is to prove their superior foodie knowledge to everyone within earshot. They ask unnecessary, pointed questions (and in a loud voice) of the waiter - such as "I was in England a few months back and I know that by law true Stilton can only be produced in Derbyshire, Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire. Do you know the provenance of this Stilton cheese listed on your menu?"

Oh my. If I dined with people like this, I would be asking the waiter (with a sneaky wink of the eye) if he could provide the GPS coordinates of the cow that provided the milk for the cheese.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I tend to weigh the "friends" thing more than the "veggie" thing, but then again, my vegetarian friends are all quite sweet and pleasant people and when we dine together it's usually one or the other of us who does the cooking (rather than eating out). It's absolutely no skin off my nose to prepare an extra vegetable course - I'm an omnivore, and I have absolutely nothing against an extra nice salad or some steamed romanesco along with a meal that will already be veg heavy (that's just how we roll in my kitchen). And I'm certainly not going to be offended if my friends don't take part in the meat portion of the meal; if I know they're coming, I generally go with a veg-based protein anyhow. If they drop in on me, well, they know I'm a veg-happy omnivore and they'll just partake of the stuff they want to eat.

Then again, my vegetarian friends are not sanctimonious twits, so I have no problem accomodating them.....

[PSmith]

It just seems to me that the "sanctimonious twits" thing is stonger with vegans and vegetarians than it is with meat eaters.

[Bill Klapp]

This thread seems to balance things nicely. I agree with whoever observed that it is often about the personality, and not at all about dietary choices. I have known more than a few vegans who were neurotic and desperately seeking attention, and using a dietary trend to further both, rather than for any legitimate philosophical purpose. Conversely, several of my former law partners and their families quietly opted to move from vegitarianism to veganism with no fanfare and always with sensitivity to those who o not share their dietary choices. That said, I will not abide, as friends or otherwise, those who are intent upon arrogant and obnoxious pressing of their food agendas., and that includes a goodly handful of celebrity chefs who know better than the diners who made them celebrities in the first place. (They all need to be sent to one of Alain Ducasse's temples of fine dining to be shown how culinary genius is supposed to comport itself in polite society, rather than being allowed to penalize their clientele several courses if they get stuck in traffic. It is DINNER, people, not theatre or opera...)

[minas6907]

I have friends acquaintances whose only goal in dining out, I think, is to prove their superior foodie knowledge to everyone within earshot. They ask unnecessary, pointed questions (and in a loud voice) of the waiter - such as "I was in England a few months back and I know that by law true Stilton can only be produced in Derbyshire, Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire. Do you know the provenance of this Stilton cheese listed on your menu?"

And boy you should have heard the lecture they recently gave the owner/chef/manager of a local Italian restaurant. He makes his own limoncello, and is very proud of it.

So my experts in all-things-consumable gave him a huge lecture about how he shouldn't even think of making limoncello without the perfect lemons, from the "sunny coast of Amalfi." I was mortified.

I hate going out to eat with them, and do just about anything to avoid it.

That is embarrassing! And hilarious! I have a few veggie friends, but I could hardly say they are snobby. One of my best friends is vegetarian, and occasionally goes vegan for a time, and he's totally cool with whatever restaurant we go to, he just chooses accordingly off the menu. Of course, with him being so reasonable I'm more then willing to go anywhere he wants also, haven't yet met any of the bad veggies mentioned in the rest of this thread!

[Porthos]

My first experience with an almost-vegan (she couldn't give up cheese) was nothing short of horrible. We were both cooking in the same volunteer kitchen tied into feeding some renaissance re-enactors. It made me look at ALL vegans as people who must be nuts. The next one I met (one of the actors) was so arrogant and entitled that I wanted to truly avoid them all. Then a few years later I started cooking in a different volunteer kitchen tied into feeding some renaissance re-enactors at a different faire and found vegetarians and vegans who were nice and rather understated about it. It completely changed my perspective. My wife and I now run that particular kitchen and we happily serve many vegan dishes (10-12), vegetarian dishes and platters full of meat for those who want it (like me). I don't keep 2 sets of dishes but we cook things in sequence so that the vegan food is completed before those pans are used for vegetarian food, fix the vegetarian dishes and then move on to the meat. I have never once been challenged about how I do things. That is a far cry from the person (at a different faire) who needed salt but wouldn't use the kitchen salt because theoretically the anti-caking agent was animal-based. I don't know about that my self and I am an avid label reader.

I wrote that out to express my belief that is is not the dietary choices that make a person an entitled boor, it is part of their personality,

[haresfur]

I've never had a problem dining out with my vegetarian friends and relations. And the only time I've had the need to lecture a server on vegetarianism was to explain that bringing out a dish that they said would not contain meat but had ham in it was one thing, but after we sent it back to the kitchen, it was not acceptable to pick (almost all) the meat off the plate and bring it back.

[Katie Meadow]

I married into a family of many vegetarians, so I'm pretty used to knowing how to cook for them. However, in the last couple of years I have changed my diet to a low cholesterol one, and it makes me realize how reliant these people are on cheese and dairy for protein. Now, when I cook for vegetarians I don't worry about anybody's protein needs, and figure they can do without for their main meal as long as I provide them a plate of cheeses for apps. When they cook for me, that's when it's a problem. I don't want to burden them since they seem to consume cholesterol in vast amounts. When any of them are cooking, I now tend to eat earlier and come without being hungry, working around whatever is there or I make sure I contribute something I can eat.

Cooking for vegans is a challenge, but I only have one friend who is a vegan and she's so self-effacing about her food habits it isn't a problem. I always make sure there is bread and grains and plenty of salad or vegetables that she can eat. Agree completely that it isn't the diet, it's just in how people approach it. At this point I can only think of two people in my life (neither of them me) that don't have some quirky dietary restrictions, so I'm starting to see it as the rule and not the exception. For so many reasons I'm a person that would have a hard time in a far northern climate with limited fruits and vegetables but lots of whale meat or reindeer.

[gfweb]

Reflecting on this thread, I've realized I don't know anyone who is a vegetarian/vegan since I was in college.

Mom would be proud.

[liuzhou]

I am delighted to report that two of my dear friends (a couple), whom I like a lot but always hated eating with, have given up on veganism after 20+ years and gone for the whole nose to tail carnivore thing instead.

They were never preachy, although we did have some "intellectual discussions" on the issues, but it just made eating out damned difficult. I never minded eating with them at home - mine or theirs.

[dcarch]

The "V" word!

I don't find vegans annoying. There are a few others, "Gluten Free", "Macrobiotics", “Wheat belly” followers who will give you a lecture every time.

dcarch

[annachan]

I don't have many (any?) vegetarian/vegan friends. Some of them do go with a vegetarian diet for a short period time here and there. However, they've always been quite flexible when we eat out. They realize that it's their special diet and will find something on the menu. The picky friends are the ones who give me a headache when we eat out....

[patrickamory]

Try booking a business meal in a restaurant to cater to a crowd containing dairy-free, seafood-allergic, raw-vegan, carniverous, pescetarian, gluten-free and vegetarian eaters!

I've done it - it's a nightmare... being friends with a couple of veggies is nothing compared to this. Something I encounter on a fairly regular basis in my occupation unfortunately.

(And I agree sanctimoniousness is the issue, not diet - but even simple vegetarianism can complicate matters when eating out. I do know many vegetarians who don't care - or don't really want to know - whether stocks and sauces might be meat- or fish-based.)

[gfweb]

Considering the amount of bugs permitted to be in vegetables (by FDA standards), I'm not sure any vegan is actually eating what they preach.

[Jaymes]

Yup. I've seen it myself.

Nobody wants a lecture about anything, esp from a crazed vegan.

I did a really bad thing last week. I lied to someone who wanted to invite themselves to a meal we were having in a restaurant with friends. I made up some excuse to put them off - because they were a pain in the arse vegetarian.

We have been out to restaurants with them before and they once demanded to see the kitchen to make sure their veggie fart burger wasn't cooked on the same grill as the meat ones. My other half and I were cringing with embarrassment. They have also had a strop to the server about menus not having enough vegetarian options.

So when they found out we were having a meal with some other friends locally, they dropped big hints that they would like to join us, but I managed to supply enough excuses for them to get the hint that we didn't want them there. Guess I am off their Christmas Card list now. *snigger*

So how obliging are the rest of you carnivores to your veggie friends?

Frankly, this sounds like a problem of people feeling entitled to foist their beliefs on others/be pests, not something specific to vegetarians or vegans.

Of the vegetarians and vegans I know, roughly the same percentage of them is as annoying about their food preferences as the rest of the people I know; I simply avoid dining with people who are irritating about food, whether they are vegetarian/vegan or not.

. . . At restaurants they'll ask what sort of stock forms the base of a soup, perhaps, but they don't make a big production of it, just make their choices accordingly.

I think you're right about this.

I have friends acquaintances whose only goal in dining out, I think, is to prove their superior foodie knowledge to everyone within earshot. They ask unnecessary, pointed questions (and in a loud voice) of the waiter - such as "I was in England a few months back and I know that by law true Stilton can only be produced in Derbyshire, Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire. Do you know the provenance of this Stilton cheese listed on your menu?"

And boy you should have heard the lecture they recently gave the owner/chef/manager of a local Italian restaurant. He makes his own limoncello, and is very proud of it.

So my experts in all-things-consumable gave him a huge lecture about how he shouldn't even think of making limoncello without the perfect lemons, from the "sunny coast of Amalfi." I was mortified.

I hate going out to eat with them, and do just about anything to avoid it.

Forgot to add...

After these people asked the waiter where the Stilton came from, the waiter said, "Uh, I dunno. They get most of the food from Sysco."

[lancastermike]

Sanctimonious twits are sanctimonious twits no matter what their choice

of diet.

[prasantrin]

Just today, someone on another board posted a link to the Food Assholes Dilemma. Some related excerpts:

If you don’t eat meat, let everyone know about it. All the time.

If you aren’t willing to invest in a set of tweezers, a cold smoker and a sous vide machine, just eat a Hot Pocket for chrissakes.

Remember, not everyone shares your food knowledge and refined palate. That’s the source of your power.

[annabelle]

That list is a classic, prasantrin!