Steak – Cooking Sous Vide

[scubadoo97]

How are you doing post sear?

If you are setting your water temp to the highest needed, how will you know when to pull the rarest steaks?

I would think you would SV them all to the lowest temp needed then those that need more cooking get finished higher during the post sear

[gfweb]

For SV steak a "ghetto SV" ala Kenji Alt set up is fine. I suggest SVing to the lowest temp in your SV unit, then taking the steaks that need to be more well-done and putting them in a beer cooler filled with water at their target temp.  Then searing.  Works fine.

[dcarch]

SV cooker was invented to do exactly the way you need to make your steaks.

 

Set the temperature to the lowest (rare) for all the steaks.

 

Remove the rare steaks and refrigerate.

 

Set the temperature higher to cook steaks to medium rare and continue cooking the other steaks. 

 

Remove the medium rare steaks and refrigerate. 

 

Set temperature higher to continue cooking the remaining steaks to medium.

 

Then put ice cubes in water to lower temperature to rare steak temperature and return all steaks to the same bath.

 

When you are ready for dinner, sear all steaks at the same time. 

 

dcarch

[nickrey]

Or you can leave them on the sear for longer if you want more cooked steaks. People who want more seared steaks are likely to want more temperature gradients in the steaks anyway so this will give them a more conventional steak.

 

In sum, bring all to rare/medium rare. Heat up the sear pan. Place the well done steaks on well before the others, then the medium, then the medium rare, then the rare steaks. Leave around two to four minutes between each and you should be fine.

[gfweb]

Or you can leave them on the sear for longer if you want more cooked steaks. People who want more seared steaks are likely to want more temperature gradients in the steaks anyway so this will give them a more conventional steak.

 

In sum, bring all to rare/medium rare. Heat up the sear pan. Place the well done steaks on well before the others, then the medium, then the medium rare, then the rare steaks. Leave around two to four minutes between each and you should be fine.

This is how I do it since those who like a medium steak will be expecting a little texture/chew.  But it does take away from the sous vide-ness of the steak....

[BigDan1989]

Thank you for all the help, got no excuse to mess it up now

[lordratner]

Thank you for all the help, got no excuse to mess it up now

I'm going to disagree with the people here, having used those methods and getting the occasional strange result.

 

With the tender steaks (filet, strip, sirlion, ribeye) I try to take the meat out of the tank as soon as it's to temp. Not to the second or minute, but I don't like to leave it in for hours longer than needed. 

 

I recommend you cook the steaks at the proper temp for the desired doneness, take it out when done and refrigerate, then work on the next doneness level. Then throw them all in at 45C for half and hour to reheat before service, and sear as desired.

 

If you don't want to refrigerate any, here's what you do. Start at the highest temp, and cook those steaks till done. Lower the bath temp to the next highest doneness, and add the steaks for that temp (leave in the previous steaks as the lower temp should have little effect on them). Continue until the lowest temp steaks are done, and all the steaks should be ready to sear and cooked at the desired levels. 

 

Both methods will work fine. I've just found more uncertainty when leaving tender cuts in for hours past bringing them to temp. There is also the additional moisture loss to consider, though minor in most cases. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by lordratner (log)

[nickrey]

I'm not sure that any of us recommended keeping the steaks on for hours past doneness. This will turn tender steaks to unpleasant mush.

[lordratner]

I'm not sure that any of us recommended keeping the steaks on for hours past doneness. This will turn tender steaks to unpleasant mush.

You're right, I misread the response. Apologies.

 

In fact, the second method (which I don't recommend) has the highest-temp steaks in the bath for hours after cooking through, while the others cook, but at lower temps. I've had great success with the method, and texture problems never developed (probably due to the temp being lowered), but I still had the occasional batch of over-cooked steaks, which is counter to the point of sous vide.

[chris_s]

In order to maximize buy-in from my stakeholders (steakholders?) I want this first cook to go as well as possible. 

 

Device is Anova precision and a large stainless steel stock pot

 

Rough plan:

 

Bone-in rib steak, roughly 1.5" thick

pat dry, rub down with charcrust

sous vide at 134 for 2 hours

remove from bag, pat dry

grill 30s/side on high heat

 

 

I gather that the steak does not need to "rest" before eating like I do with purely grilled meats. the 2 hours is a rough average of the charts I've seen. I don't want to come up too rare due to being short on time. Consensus seems to be that 2 hours won't result in overmushy meat. 

 

Is there anything else I might be missing? 

 

thanks!

[weedy]

no, that's basically it.

 

assuming it's starting at roughly room temp, and not freezing.

 

I wouldn't pre-rub with "charcrust" (I don't know what that is, admittedly) IF that includes salt.

 

I'd cook in the bag, dry, and THEN rub and sear.

 

you should sear until it looks right to you... that time will be determined by how hot your searing method is.

don't be a slave to the time; but naturally the hotter and faster the better.

 

even up to 4 hours you won't get 'mushy'.

 

and yes, you won't need to rest it

 

good luck!

[gfweb]

Pretty much right. I believe that I'd go a little lower, say 130F and then sear in a blazing hot pan for as short a time as you can.

 

Salt before the sear (but not before SV)..and then again after the sear.

 

I've been known to splash a little soy  on the steak pre-sear.

 

What is charcrust?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I am a fan of Anova for many meats but a rib steak I would not cook sous vide.  Yes, I have tested.

[mgaretz]

I'm with Weedy and gfweb - lower temp and rub after SV but before searing.  Be sure to pat dry after SV and before the rub.  I sear mine on the gas grill.

[ChrisTaylor]

This. I'd chill it--not necessarily to fridge temp, but certainly lower than the temperature of the water bath--and get the surface as dry as possible before searing it. It's worth cooking a rib eye steak sous vide once or twice for the hell of it but the others are right in arguing that neither the technique nor the beef shines when you bag up and bathe a rib eye. You'll achieve a superior result with very delicate products (eggs, salmon fillets) or products easily taken to the point of being too tough (octopus, beef short ribs).

[weedy]

I'm going to dissent

 

I like the perfect edge to edge cook on a rib eye done sous vide just as much as any other cut

 

it's still my favourite way to cook a steak

 

ANY steak.

 

and with a beautiful, expensive, piece of prime rib eye, I have extra incentive for it to be cooked perfectly every time.

 

I also do play with temp sometimes, but I find that seriouseats is right that fat renders more effectively at 134F than below.

this leads to a slightly less pink look, but a juicier, and ultimately beefier (which is the goal innit?), result

 

my blind tests have shown me that 134 tastes better than 130, to me... but that 130-135 is definitely the way to go.

 

the exception might be if I felt I wouldn't get a quick sear and so needed to allow for some extra actual 'cooking' in the searing step.

 

lastly, 

I know about the Modernist Cuisine suggestion to nitrogen freeze before searing, but I don't find it necessary if you have a hot torch or screaming hot pan (or grill).

 

I tend to come straight out of the bag 5 minutes before I'm ready to serve.

Dry, sear, and on to the plate.

[btbyrd]

If I'm going to eat an whole ribeye or strip steak (and not cut it into strips for pretentious plating, which I sometimes do) I've found that I prefer straight grilling over sous vide. Your preferences may vary. I don't have the same view of cooking the same cuts from a pig, however. I've cooked plenty of steaks sous vide and have experimented with lots of techniques for searing/pre-searing. My favorite method has been a quick deep-fry pre-sear in 400F (or higher) oil, cook SV with a bit of butter, and finish on a screaming hot grill while dousing the grates occasionally with the bag juices (it will flame up like crazy). If you do it right, the results are very nice and consistently repeatable. I'm just starting to get the hang of the Searzall for these purposes. Anyway, pre-searing is highly recommended. In my experience, it makes a real difference in how quickly you can get a good crust during the final sear. I don't chill the steak before the final searing, but I do pat it dry and set it on a rack for a few minutes so that the surface moisture evaporates. Then brush with oil/butter and sear away.

 

Anyway, what people like is a matter of taste... and sometimes just a matter of mood. Speaking for myself, sometimes I want that "perfect" edge-to-edge uniform doneness. But sometimes what I really want is that "perfect" steak that has a beautiful thermal gradient down to a warm, red center. Whatever you end up preferring, you should still cook a bunch of steaks sous vide to get familiar with the techniques and their results.

Edited December 18, 2014 by btbyrd (log)

[Unpopular Poet]

It is a tough call for me -- I have really gone up and down on sous vide ribeye -- It all depends on the actual cut -- perfect uniform doneness is not everything in my opinion -- I feel like a scorching hot mineral pan, with some clarified butter and a brief oven finish is always going to be my preferred steak -- It might not be exactly rare-medium rare all the way through, but it has that flavor that a sous vide ribeye never achieves -- I did steam and then sear some steaks sometime ago, and those were quite good -- a nice in between of sous vide and standard sear.  I feel like being able to pre-salt when I am cooking in the pan gives me more of the flavor I am looking for.  To each his own though.  There is no wrong way, assuming you are happy with the results.

[chris_s]

 

What is charcrust?

 

Charcrust is a pre-packaged rub for meats that I use from time to time, http://www.charcrust.com/

I'd imagine it's got a fair bit of salt, will rub after sous vide

 

If I'm going to eat an whole ribeye or strip steak (and not cut it into strips for pretentious plating, which I sometimes do) I've found that I prefer straight grilling over sous vide. 

 

my reasons for wanting to SV this cut are as follows, not necessarily in this priority

1) ensure proper doneness. My wife is not happy when things are undercooked, and I'm not happy when things are over, and I simply don't have the skill or attention span to "nail it" on the grill. It's also winter in canada, proper grill control is difficult due to cold ambient temperatures affecting the grill, and me not wanting to stand outside in my slippers and t-shirt in -30f tending to it

2) timing. In the chance that I did manager to get the steak perfect on the grill, there's a good possibility I've spent so much time on that that I've forgot to prep sides. Having a bit of leeway with timing will be enjoyed

3) some of the rib steaks that I've got right now (we buy an entire cow's worth of beef) have a firm ridge of grizzle through them, I'm hoping the LTLT cooking method will melt this a bit

4) new toy, want to try

 

 

In any case, thank you for the advice and opinions, I will update. 

[paulraphael]

For a ribeye, I set the circulator to 55°C. Target temperature for the meat is 54°C (129F). But meat temperatures up to 56C are quite good.

 

1.5" is the perfect thickness for SV ... thick enough to be easy to sear without overcooking, thin enough to cook quickly without drying out. 1.75 hours should be plenty if you start at fridge temperature.

 

I agree with everyone that you should salt after unbagging. With these short cooking times you don't have to worry about the meat getting cured by salt, but I don't like salt getting into the bag juices. Salty bag juices are usually useless for incorporating into a pan sauce.

 

You might consider pre-searing in addition to post-searing. It's unnecessary, and its utility is debated. However, blind tests by Dave Arnold's crew at cookingissues.com suggested that searing before and after gave the tastiest crust. A pre-sear also makes the final sear go a bit faster.

 

If you sear on a grill, get it stupid hot. Ideally you want to brown each side in a minute or less.

 

I'd skip the "char crust." A nice steak doesn't need a commercial seasoning product. Besides, the company claims their product "seals in the juices," which is a lie. So I wouldn't trust them on anything. If you want to aid the formation of a crust, you can try a very light dusting of baking soda and dextrose (as I've discussed elsewhere). If you get the grill insanely hot it's not necessary.

[paulraphael]

By the way, if you like a thermal gradient, you can accomplish this with sous-vide, also. I'd argue you can do a better job than with conventional cooking, because you can be more precise. You can have your gradient go from rare to medium (I don't believe anyone actually likes well-done steak). There will always be a minute well-done layer from the searing process, but you can make make it a fraction the thickness of what you'd get from high temperature cooking.

 

You could try cooking SV at 53°C for 1 hour 50 minutes, removing the bags, turning up the circulator to 60°C, and putting the bags in for another 10 minutes.

[btbyrd]

Charcrust is a pre-packaged rub for meats that I use from time to time, http://www.charcrust.com/

I'd imagine it's got a fair bit of salt, will rub after sous vide

 

 

my reasons for wanting to SV this cut are as follows, not necessarily in this priority

1) ensure proper doneness. My wife is not happy when things are undercooked, and I'm not happy when things are over, and I simply don't have the skill or attention span to "nail it" on the grill. It's also winter in canada, proper grill control is difficult due to cold ambient temperatures affecting the grill, and me not wanting to stand outside in my slippers and t-shirt in -30f tending to it

2) timing. In the chance that I did manager to get the steak perfect on the grill, there's a good possibility I've spent so much time on that that I've forgot to prep sides. Having a bit of leeway with timing will be enjoyed

3) some of the rib steaks that I've got right now (we buy an entire cow's worth of beef) have a firm ridge of grizzle through them, I'm hoping the LTLT cooking method will melt this a bit

4) new toy, want to try

 

All good reasons for trying SV! I can sympathize with your first point... my wife is not happy when things are undercooked either, so I always cook hers in the bath beforehand while just grilling my own. And the timing element is definitely a bonus... having the ability to concentrate on other things and know that you've got a bit of a window for your steak is very nice. I hate when I get the steak just right and then have to rush to get everything together while it's resting (no resting required with SV!). Unfortunately, I don't think that low-temp cooking is going to significantly soften the tendon that's in the loin end of the ribeye. The good news is that your steak will still be delicious; you just might have to nibble around the gristley bit.

[mgaretz]

Doubt your four hours will do much to soften the gristle but maybe.

Now if you want to really see what sous vide can do, get a thick chuck steak (boneless roast, really), season lightly and bag it. Cook at 125-130f for 24 hours. Save the bag juices to make jus by reducing and thickening with some butter. Sear the steak and slice. The tricky part is slicing across the grain, you'll have to separate the muscles and slice individually. Then serve with the jus and sides (sautéed mushrooms in butter and cream sherry is my favorite).

This will be as tender as prime rib or ribeye steak, but with much more beef flavor and half (or less) of the cost.

When I buy chuck for SV (on sale), I season it and vacuum pack it and freeze. It goes straight from the freezer into the bath.

Edited December 19, 2014 by mgaretz (log)

[paulraphael]

Doubt your four hours will do much to soften the gristle but maybe.

 

Even if it did, the price you'd pay in the texture of the meat wouldn't be worth it. Tender meat shouldn't be cooked longer than necessary. A half hour extra won't do any harm, but if you start adding hours, you'll get a texture that's both mushy and dry.

[IndyRob]

I think four hours might be too long for part of the steak - the eye, as opposed to the cap.  Contrary to what I had thought for a long time, you can overcook meat sous vide.  It may still be pink, but overcooked.  This from Thomas Keller and confirmed by me.

 

Ribeye is tricky because it is really two cuts of meat.