Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)

[FeChef]

I dont like smoked corned beef, but i do SV brisket then smoke. I like a brisket that can still be sliced yet tender and juicy. I SV at 132F for 12 hours and then smoke for 4-5 hours at 200F till internal temp reaches between 155F and 165F. Really temp depends on how defined the bark is, if it has good bark at 155F i pull it then, if not i'll let ride to 165F. It still comes out just and tender and juicy. If you want a more fall apart that you can barely slice, go for 24 hours at 132F then smoke as listed above.

[Todd in Chicago]

I dont like smoked corned beef, but i do SV brisket then smoke. I like a brisket that can still be sliced yet tender and juicy. I SV at 132F for 12 hours and then smoke for 4-5 hours at 200F till internal temp reaches between 155F and 165F. Really temp depends on how defined the bark is, if it has good bark at 155F i pull it then, if not i'll let ride to 165F. It still comes out just and tender and juicy. If you want a more fall apart that you can barely slice, go for 24 hours at 132F then smoke as listed above.

Doh!!! That is totally making my mouth water!! I've got a brisket in my freezer that for 72 hours at 133 F. I wonder if I can still do the smoke part like you did. Did you put any kind of rub or anything on the outside before smoking?

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

[scubadoo97]

Thanks FeChef. Sounds like you are getting good collagen breakdown at that low temp. I'll take that approach the next time. I like the mix of techniques

If you were to go straight SV, what temperature/time would you shoot for? There are so many opinions

Thanks

[FeChef]

Doh!!! That is totally making my mouth water!! I've got a brisket in my freezer that for 72 hours at 133 F. I wonder if I can still do the smoke part like you did. Did you put any kind of rub or anything on the outside before smoking?

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

You could definitely smoke that brisket. It may fall apart though. What i would do is thaw it in a bucket of cold water and then add back into the SV to retherm it to 133F for about 2 hours then smoke it as i do.

Yes I rub it after SV with brown sugar, paprika,chili powder,onion powder,garlic powder, sea salt, and cumin. I then use a spray bottle filled with pressed apple juice and spray it every hour or so. Using a spray bottle vs a mop keeps your rub on your meat.

Thanks FeChef. Sounds like you are getting good collagen breakdown at that low temp. I'll take that approach the next time. I like the mix of techniques

If you were to go straight SV, what temperature/time would you shoot for? There are so many opinions

Thanks

Depends what texture you want. If going straight SV i would go for 155F for 24 hours. It will be in the border of slice and shredd.

Edited January 28, 2013 by FeChef (log)

[ScottyBoy]

Whaaaa! That beef looks ridiculous!

[patmatrix]

Need some advise, I recently purchase some Mahi-Mahi from Costco and would like to know once and for all. When you defrost food overnight in the fridge can you sous-vide them like you would if the fish was super fresh and cook it for less time? Can we say that frozen or fresh, the food is equally eatable at the same temperature?

Thank you.

[FeChef]

Need some advise, I recently purchase some Mahi-Mahi from Costco and would like to know once and for all. When you defrost food overnight in the fridge can you sous-vide them like you would if the fish was super fresh and cook it for less time? Can we say that frozen or fresh, the food is equally eatable at the same temperature?

Thank you.

try defrosting it in cold water for a few hours instead of overnight in the fridge. In a ziplock or vacuum bag of course. Or you could add sea salt to the cold water and brine it as it defrosts.

[nickrey]

Thawing it overnight is an attempt to get it back to fresh condition. I'm not sure why it would take less time when compared to fresh. If it was flash frozen, it is typically as good as fresh. If not, you will lose moisture and the texture will be affected on thawing due to crystallization of the flesh. We've had that discussion before somewhere in the sous vide threads. The question arises as to why you'd thaw it before cooking. Just bag it frozen and cook for slightly longer to take into account thawing time.

[Joe Blowe]

Just bag it frozen and cook for slightly longer to take into account thawing time.

Did this for the first time just the other day, and it worked out great. From Thawing cryovac-ed fish:

For cooking sous vide, it is not necessary to thaw the fish first, just drop it in the water bath, and use the old rule of thumb "increase the cooking time by 50% when cooking from frozen" [...]

As to Patmatrix's question regarding the safety of frozen fish vs fresh fish, Nickrey already pointed out that (quite a bit of) frozen fish sold in stores today was flash frozen at the point of origin. That time spent frozen has already killed off any parasites of note. (See Sushi Fresh From the Deep... the Deep Freeze.)

If anything, people doing low-temp/non-pasteurized SV fish at home should be seeking out top-quality frozen fish, not fresh.

[FeChef]

Thawing it overnight is an attempt to get it back to fresh condition. I'm not sure why it would take less time when compared to fresh. If it was flash frozen, it is typically as good as fresh. If not, you will lose moisture and the texture will be affected on thawing due to crystallization of the flesh. We've had that discussion before somewhere in the sous vide threads. The question arises as to why you'd thaw it before cooking. Just bag it frozen and cook for slightly longer to take into account thawing time.

Im am going to disagree with you. I have had a bad experience with SVing something raw from frozen to a low temperature like 132F medium rare. After 48 hours it smelled like fecal matter. And had to be thrown away. I find nothing wrong with re-therming someting frozen that had been cooked, but i will never SV anything raw in a frozen state ever again.

[Todd in Chicago]

Thawing it overnight is an attempt to get it back to fresh condition. I'm not sure why it would take less time when compared to fresh. If it was flash frozen, it is typically as good as fresh. If not, you will lose moisture and the texture will be affected on thawing due to crystallization of the flesh. We've had that discussion before somewhere in the sous vide threads. The question arises as to why you'd thaw it before cooking. Just bag it frozen and cook for slightly longer to take into account thawing time.

Im am going to disagree with you. I have had a bad experience with SVing something raw from frozen to a low temperature like 132F medium rare. After 48 hours it smelled like fecal matter. And had to be thrown away. I find nothing wrong with re-therming someting frozen that had been cooked, but i will never SV anything raw in a frozen state ever again.

I thought in Douglas Baldwins book (and I could be wrong) that he mentioned that food cooked SV could be kept far longer in the freezer that food that was raw and then frozen. My understanding is that for most items, food cooked SV and then frozen can be kept for close to a year with little degradation in taste or texture. To test this point, I made a filet mignon for my wife (her favorite cut), which was actually cooked SV about 1 year ago. I queried her about the dinner and she indicated that the filet was perfect. I then told her I cooked it a year ago and she couldn't believe it. And she didn't even hit me. ;-)

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

[crimsonfancy]

Hello. I'm new to post here but I've been a reader for years. I'm also fairly inexperienced to these types of forums in general so I hope you'll excuse my post if I'm in the wrong spot.

I've made a query here and online and I was unable to find what I'm searching so I decided to just ask.

I have a PS SousVide Pro that I bought this month with plans to use it in my small kitchen operation. There are countless benefits for us in my work, and I'll spare you, but I'm beginning to make some cooks and record notes.

I'm constantly trying, on a personal level, to be more organized. And, my ultimate goal in my kitchen is to record, tweak, record, and become absolute....so I can create a product that my very small and less skilled team can reproduce. During my trials, I want to have control and variation recorded to the finest detail.

I use a recipe manager "Paprika", Google Drive/Docs, I purchased SousVide Dash today, etc+.

So my question is this, 'Is there a spreadsheet or efficient note-taking template, that you guys use to record details of your sous vide cooks?'

Thank you for your help and I really love and appreciate my opportunity to absorb the cuisine and tech details the great egullet community has shared.

[nickrey]

Thawing it overnight is an attempt to get it back to fresh condition. I'm not sure why it would take less time when compared to fresh. If it was flash frozen, it is typically as good as fresh. If not, you will lose moisture and the texture will be affected on thawing due to crystallization of the flesh. We've had that discussion before somewhere in the sous vide threads. The question arises as to why you'd thaw it before cooking. Just bag it frozen and cook for slightly longer to take into account thawing time.

Im am going to disagree with you. I have had a bad experience with SVing something raw from frozen to a low temperature like 132F medium rare. After 48 hours it smelled like fecal matter. And had to be thrown away. I find nothing wrong with re-therming someting frozen that had been cooked, but i will never SV anything raw in a frozen state ever again.

I've never had issue with anything that I buy. Freezing will not kill bacteria that were present in the meat in the first place. Sounds like you started off with a bad product. Thawing it first and then cooking it would have resulted in the same outcome. Would you then say that you would never cook thawed product ever again?

[Martin Fisher]

So my question is this, 'Is there a spreadsheet or efficient note-taking template, that you guys use to record details of your sous vide cooks?'

I use a program called Treesheets, the Linux version.

"Suitable for any kind of data organization, such as Todo lists, calendars, project management, brainstorming, organizing ideas, planning, requirements gathering, presentation of information, etc.

It's like a spreadsheet, immediately familiar, but much more suitable for complex data because it's hierarchical.

It's like a mind mapper, but more organized and compact.

It's like an outliner, but in more than one dimension.

It's like a text editor, but with structure."

http://treesheets.com/

~Martin

Edited January 31, 2013 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[Todd in Chicago]

Hello. I'm new to post here but I've been a reader for years. I'm also fairly inexperienced to these types of forums in general so I hope you'll excuse my post if I'm in the wrong spot.

I've made a query here and online and I was unable to find what I'm searching so I decided to just ask.

I have a PS SousVide Pro that I bought this month with plans to use it in my small kitchen operation. There are countless benefits for us in my work, and I'll spare you, but I'm beginning to make some cooks and record notes.

I'm constantly trying, on a personal level, to be more organized. And, my ultimate goal in my kitchen is to record, tweak, record, and become absolute....so I can create a product that my very small and less skilled team can reproduce. During my trials, I want to have control and variation recorded to the finest detail.

I use a recipe manager "Paprika", Google Drive/Docs, I purchased SousVide Dash today, etc+.

So my question is this, 'Is there a spreadsheet or efficient note-taking template, that you guys use to record details of your sous vide cooks?'

Thank you for your help and I really love and appreciate my opportunity to absorb the cuisine and tech details the great egullet community has shared.

Check out this post:

We think this is a great way to record your cooks, and share with the community if you so desire.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

[crimsonfancy]

Thank you so much DiggingDogFarm and Todd in Chicago! I'm now gonna to look into your quick suggestions over my leg and thigh/ cold beer, late night dinner.

[FeChef]

I've never had issue with anything that I buy. Freezing will not kill bacteria that were present in the meat in the first place. Sounds like you started off with a bad product. Thawing it first and then cooking it would have resulted in the same outcome. Would you then say that you would never cook thawed product ever again?

My theory was that because it was frozen, and the water temp was low (132F) that it may have stayed in the danger zone for too long and spoiled.

I bought the product fresh and froze it myself and i dont recall it smelling bad before freezing it.

[PedroG]

I've never had issue with anything that I buy. Freezing will not kill bacteria that were present in the meat in the first place. Sounds like you started off with a bad product. Thawing it first and then cooking it would have resulted in the same outcome. Would you then say that you would never cook thawed product ever again?

My theory was that because it was frozen, and the water temp was low (132F) that it may have stayed in the danger zone for too long and spoiled.

I bought the product fresh and froze it myself and i dont recall it smelling bad before freezing it.

Time in the "danger zone" when SVing from frozen is not much longer than from 5°C, see my Wikia article Core temperature development in frozen versus refrigerated meat which says:

To simulate a cut of meat, I vacuum-sealed a 30mm thick pile of wet rags with a temperature probe inserted through foam-tape into the center of the pile. The tissue could hold 62% of water, which is similar to meat: Lamb chop is 52% water and beef tenderloin is 75% water.

Heating from 5 to 55°C took 67 minutes, Douglas Baldwin's table 2.3 predicts 69 minutes. The curve is comparable to Douglas Baldwin's figure A.2 using a slab of Mahi-Mahi. The time in the "danger zone" (5°C to 54.4°C) is 40 minutes.

Heating from -10°C to 55°C took 98 minutes (or 75 minutes to 54.9°C), Douglas Baldwin's table 2.4 predicts 84 minutes. Please note the stall at 0°C. The time in the "danger zone" (5°C to 54.4°C) is 52 minutes. This is only 12 minutes more than in the experiment starting at 5°C despite the 31 minutes longer total heating time.

[EnriqueB]

Check out this post: http://forums.egulle...69#entry1905769

We think this is a great way to record your cooks, and share with the community if you so desire.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

Hi Todd, that message is for an evaluation version of your app. Is it already live? A link to it?

[EnriqueB]

Hello. I'm new to post here but I've been a reader for years. I'm also fairly inexperienced to these types of forums in general so I hope you'll excuse my post if I'm in the wrong spot.

I've made a query here and online and I was unable to find what I'm searching so I decided to just ask.

I have a PS SousVide Pro that I bought this month with plans to use it in my small kitchen operation. There are countless benefits for us in my work, and I'll spare you, but I'm beginning to make some cooks and record notes.

I'm constantly trying, on a personal level, to be more organized. And, my ultimate goal in my kitchen is to record, tweak, record, and become absolute....so I can create a product that my very small and less skilled team can reproduce. During my trials, I want to have control and variation recorded to the finest detail.

I use a recipe manager "Paprika", Google Drive/Docs, I purchased SousVide Dash today, etc+.

So my question is this, 'Is there a spreadsheet or efficient note-taking template, that you guys use to record details of your sous vide cooks?'

Thank you for your help and I really love and appreciate my opportunity to absorb the cuisine and tech details the great egullet community has shared.

Yes, I use a spreadsheet, and these are the fields:

• Date
  
• Food group (Meat, Poultry, Fish, Vegetable...)
  
• Animal/Food (Beef, Chicken, Carrot...)
  
• Cut/Part (Shortribs, Brisket, Thigh...)
  
• Portioning ("Deboned ribs in 100 g / 2 inches pieces", "Halved carrots"....)
  
• Dish ("MC SV Braised short ribs", "Glazed carrots"...)
  
• Pre-treatment ("5 hours in 5% brine", "Marinated in spice mix", "Pre-seared in pan"...)
  
• Other bag ingredients ("15 g butter", "50 g chicken stock & coriander")
  
• Target core temperature
  
• Water temperature
  
• Time (where applicable, often just "Use tables as a funcion of width/diameter")
  
• Finishing ("Torch seared", "deep-fried 1 min at 190ºC"....)
  
• Degree of safety achieved ("As raw", "Surface pasteurization", "pasteurization to core")
  
• Result ("Like"/"Not like")
  
• Comments
  

(Edited to add forgotten "Date" field)

Edited January 31, 2013 by EnriqueB (log)

[Paul Kierstead]

And Pedros numbers are for 30mm thick, which is significantly thicker then most fillets of fish, which will thaw very rapidly in the bath.

[FeChef]

I dont know. I dont claim to be an expert on pasteurization. If it wasnt the temp, then some how bacteria was introduced. Maybe the bacteria was already there before it was freezed and i just didnt see or smell it until it was cooked. I will always be sceptical about it, and probably wont take any chances. Not much is worse then waisting money on expensive cuts of meats, waiting 48-72 hours to eat it just to find out it got spoiled. Not to mention all the other items prepared for the dish. Its very disappointing to say the least.

[seabream]

Yes, I use a spreadsheet, and these are the fields:

• Date
  
• Food group (Meat, Poultry, Fish, Vegetable...)
  
• Animal/Food (Beef, Chicken, Carrot...)
  
• Cut/Part (Shortribs, Brisket, Thigh...)
  
• Portioning ("Deboned ribs in 100 g / 2 inches pieces", "Halved carrots"....)
  
• Dish ("MC SV Braised short ribs", "Glazed carrots"...)
  
• Pre-treatment ("5 hours in 5% brine", "Marinated in spice mix", "Pre-seared in pan"...)
  
• Other bag ingredients ("15 g butter", "50 g chicken stock & coriander")
  
• Target core temperature
  
• Water temperature
  
• Time (where applicable, often just "Use tables as a funcion of width/diameter")
  
• Finishing ("Torch seared", "deep-fried 1 min at 190ºC"....)
  
• Degree of safety achieved ("As raw", "Surface pasteurization", "pasteurization to core")
  
• Result ("Like"/"Not like")
  
• Comments
  

(Edited to add forgotten "Date" field)

This is brilliant! I use a table to keep my notes, but with not nearly as much detail. I have "borrowed" a few of your fields, so thank you!

I use OneNote. I have a page per category (such as "lamb" or "beef"), and a table within each page with my notes. One disadvantage of using OneNote (vs a real spreadsheet software) is that it doesn't allow table operations, such as filtering, ordering, etc. However, overall I am happy with OneNote because I have my recipes organized in other pages, and I can easily link to them from the table. Another advantage is that we have Mac, PC, iPhone, Windows Phone, iPad and Surface devices in my household, and I can access my notes from all these devices equally easily. If I'm travelling abroad without access to my technology toys, I access the notes through the very nice web interface (I keep the notes in the cloud, on Skydrive).

In addition to recipes and notes, I also use it to make my shopping list. Again, I can link to the recipe, so if I can't find an ingredient in the store, I can quickly look at the recipe and think of another ingredient as a replacement.

I also like the fact that I can add my own photos to each recipe I keep. If I'm feeling lazy, I'll take a quick photo with my iPhone and add it to the recipe directly. Otherwise, I'll take a photo with my SLR and insert it to OneNote later.

To enter the recipes, sometimes I copy them from the web, sometimes I type them by hand from a book, sometimes I scan the book page and convert the image to text.

[rotuts]

WoW

that spread-sheet is almost delicious !

I on the other hand, for this purpose have chosen to use a notebook, cheeeep at Staples, lined 'engineer'

I like flipping through it.

[seabream]

I just sous vided asparagus, without success. I cooked the asparagus at 85C for 60 minutes (per "Sous vide for the home cook") and they came out completely overcooked.

Has anyone tried sous viding asparagus? What worked for you?

Edited February 1, 2013 by seabream (log)